what is apple's return policy..

...regarding things outside the 14-day window? I purchased my mac actually two MONTHS ago.. and as of late my experience is starting to decline. The first two weeks were great, but once I got all settled in, I noticed I was experiencing more crashes playing games (specifically world of warcraft). I also notice that I can't use specific addons (things that make the gaming experience much less of a job, and are written in XML and Lua, platform independent) are causing the client to freeze randomly every few seconds. I literally CAN'T game without those. I also see much more freeze-ups that don't even generate an error, as well as about the same amount that do. I'm beginning to find connection issues as well, sometimes it won't connect to my specified wireless network, and the connection speed decreases at random. A download for a 10 mb file once took me over two hours .. I went onto my windows machine and it downloaded it in a minute or two. I've also had many of my frequently-used apps such as aim, ventrilo, and safari crash multiple times in a row after hitting relaunch, it will crash again, give the same error, and then I'll use it for about 30 minutes, it'll crash again. I have to keep my door closed at night so that I don't wake up my wife (because the fans cranked at maximum are so damn noisy) and the temperature in my room raises about 7 degrees celsius! that's absurd! I've never even noticed heat problems on my windows machine and the fans are running at a fourth of the speed! I didn't mind the fans at first, overheating hasn't been an issue (everything but the airport card under 50 degrees celsius but never below 30 even when writing this) but these problems escalated in frequency over the two months I've owned this mac. At first there were no problems, then the fan woke up my wife, shut the door, so then the heat problem arises. The connection problems have been there since day one (random spikes of low connection speed), I've always noticed more frequent crashes, but now the frequent crashes and freeze-ups are becoming more frequent.


Sorry for the wall of text, and I've also tried contacting apple via e-mail, they said they'd reply in about 3 business days, it's been about 6. Their website didn't help me at all find their policy on returns, the search feature returns things completely unrelated to my problem. I have apple-care, but I don't want to replace my machine, I want a refund. I'm going back to windows.

Sun Baked said:

The WOW issues are not an Apple Issue.

For some reason the Blizzard servers absolutely hate Apple's firewall, so make sure you have all the Blizzard apps set up with the Firewall. Make sure all the blizzard apps are in the allowed connections box.

As far as the download speeds with Blizzard, turn off the Firewall for the updates -- makes it a lot easier.

I think the newest WOW update is extremely flakey on the Mac, a lot more freezes than before.

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No, these problems aren't with just WoW, they're all just in general, like downloading music is taking ages, downloading a new app will take ages, downloading an addon, anything in general, not just WoW, and I already have all of Blizzard's ports and apps on the firewall, and on updates the firewall IS off, I'm used to doing that even with vista, it is still taking hours, 2.4 alone took an hour and 16 minutes shorter to download to my vista machine. However, the WoW issues on apple machines have persisted for awhile, and right now I'm actually starting to use my vista machine more and more although I have to bear integrated graphics.

^ should have mentioned these things in the OP, sorry

my question still stands, what is their policy on things past the first two weeks?

MrBrillo said:

... to get a refund, you'll have to prove that the machine is not "fit for purpose". This'll be difficult, because I'm sure that somewhere in all the verbiage that accompanies the machine you'll find something somewhere that in small print will state that Apple will NOT guarantee the machine will perform specifically for a given purpose.

However, I'm sorry you're having this experience. I'm a total Apple convert, having wished Bill Gates goodbye over two years ago. However, I'm not a gamer, so can't really appreciate what you're going through. However, I assume you've tried the Warcraft forums to try and get help?

I suggest you do try the Apple Care thing. If you get no joy there, then I guess you can try and negotiate with your supplier, or Apple. Best phone, or fax would be my advice.

Best of luck.

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See, I only play WoW, wc3, and sc, so I figured this machine would be fine, it's just been freezing, apps have been unstable, it's driving me nuts, and to hear that I have to PROVE I don't like the machine irks me. I'm really set on this though, I want to go back to vista where I feel it's more stable. All they'll tell me to do at the warcraft forums is reinstall, reset my cache, interface, and wtf folders, which I've done to no avail. I guess I'll try, thank you.

clevin said:

or have spare $$$,

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this is the issue. even with a 10% on return, I'd save a couple hundred bucks by buying a machine with similar, if not better, specs.

I actually called apple this morning, I must've gotten someone lazy, because he said (basically) "it's not us, go update your apps [minus safari, for which, he said, had an update today (which there is, 3.1.1)]" The only problem with that is I'm already on the latest version of each other app (I went and checked)


It was never 100% this way, I've felt the computer has declined in performance, should I try cleaning out the fans or something? as someone suggested I might take it in..

I live in the US for reference on policy.

I don't even know right now, I'm just frustrated with how this has shaken out, I blew 2200 on this thing with applecare and iWork, as well as .mac, and I was expecting this thing to operate well for at least 3 years!

killmoms said:

I know it can be frustrating to get a new machine and have it not perform as you expected it to. However, I can say that the issues you are experiencing, in aggregate, point to bad RAM or other flaky hardware, which would be covered by Apple's warranty (AppleCare). I'd highly recommend you pursue (nicely but firmly) service from Apple. Inform them that you've got the latest versions of all software and haven't done anything untoward and that you're dissatisfied with the machine's behavior.

I'd say you should call back, even AppleCare isn't guaranteed to hook you up to a nice, helpful person every time. Get someone different and see if they're more sympathetic to the issues you're experiencing.

As tempting as it might be to sell the machine, I'd see if you can't push a little bit harder to get your issues resolved. Computers are computers, Mac or PC, and either can experience weirdness. I've owned three Macs over the last four and a half years, and my PowerBook G4 gave me 4 years of extremely faithful service overall. A well-behaved Mac WILL last quite a while, so I'd pursue options other than "getting rid of it" even though you're frustrated at the moment.

What part of the world do you happen to be in, for reference?

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I wrote it in a neat little line of its own in my post just above yours. :/


The US.

spinne1 said:

What you are experiencing is NOT normal OS X activity. You need to have your computer checked out via Applecare. If it is not a hardware issue, your OS could be corrupted somehow and a reinstall of the OS via "archive and install" would be perhaps helpful. Also, check your HD usage. If your hard drive is mostly full that could cause problems.

Just because you have had a bad experience with one computer does not mean Windows is more stable than OS X. Millions would testify otherwise.

Downloading should be snappy. Try using a direct line to your router and see if it fixes it (after you do the above reinstall and/or hardware fix/replacement). Do you have a hub in the chain somewhere? Are PCs hooked to the exact same router (wirelessly) and work fine?

How is WoW in a Boot Camp installed partition of Windows on your Mac? Do you have such to test it out? Does your computer always crash even when WoW has not been run on that particular reboot? (If only after running WoW maybe something there is the culprit.)

Sorry you are having such trouble. I know it can be extremely frustrating.

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A direct line is not available in my home office. Right now, with as expensive as this thing was, I can't afford to go out and buy windows just to "test it out". Safari and other apps crash regardless if I've run WoW. I haven't run WoW in about 2 days and safari and aim are still crashing. I also noticed this earlier in the week:


http://i30.tinypic.com/2hfnyvk.png

only happens with stacks. in addition, my dock has turned completely transparent with two weird lines on the sides (on its own, I haven't messed with system preferences for about 3 weeks):

http://i26.tinypic.com/fleef7.png

Choctaw said:

And just what mac did you buy and what OS?
Thanks Choctaw

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Alu Intel 2.4ghz / 2gb ram 20"
Max OS X Leopard 10.5.2

CanadaRAM said:

If there is a hardware problem, Apple will fix it under warranty.

Applecare does not cover third-party software or its performance on your machine, or the performance of your network, or the performance of the servers you are connecting to. Applecare will tell you to reinstall your OS and applications if you are having trouble with them and that's about it.

My advice is to stop pushing on the return for refund front, that isn;t going to fly, no matter what your expectations were or your dissatisfaction level with software.

It's possible you have more than one problem, and it's quite possible that they are all related to software or a damaged OS installation.

Do an Archive and Install of OSX and see if the Safari problems persist.
Reinstall the applications from their original CDs. See if that helps.
Take it to an AASP to see if there is a hardware issue.
If you're not happy and the machine is functioning hardware wise, then sell the machine.

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Edit: expectations were a bit high, but I'm sure I'll be losing a couple hundred dollars on a resell. I'm unhappy with performance and stability.. oh well, I've lost hope. I'll be losing a couple hundred even if I sold it, and the other computer I'm looking at is 1200. So all in all I'll be spending even more. Not fun to look forward to. Thanks anyways.


edit2: seems like money is no object for so many people on these forums..

VoodooDaddy said:

You probably wont like this, but seems to me you are having buyers remorse and just want your full money back. I dont doubt you are having some issues, but Im guessing its not as bad as you are making out. You are just looking for a "valid" excuse to return the machine to Apple, and there really isnt one.

Have you tried a reinstall of the OS? Have you tried different ram? Have you had ANY contact with Apple to pinpoint the problem? Sounds like all you want is to recoup your purchase price, an unfortunately thats not going to happen 2months after the fact.

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If you've read the thread, you'd have read I've replaced my ram on two occasions. I've also talked to apple once or twice via the phone just for some troubleshooting related to the problem with stacks that I posted above (in the pictures), they were able to fix that, but I'm still having instability issues.

In response to Choctaw:

I invested 2200 dollars in it, I grabbed iWork, .Mac (to share a few movies between machines), and applecare in addition to the extra gig of ram. I suppose part of this may be buyer's remorse, but it is bad, like some nights I can't get any work done or get some relaxing game time in. I still haven't settled in with the OS either. I figured I'd be safe having used linux before, but .. bleh. I'm also tired of the social label I get for owning one. It may not bother you guys but people aren't covered in the warranty I guess.

However much I don't like this, I may as well stick it out. I also suppose I've been pushing for the answer I've wanted to hear. Can't happen that way. I hope this machine dies, and Choc, I don't want a new mac if it does end up dying.


In response to voodoodaddy:

I don't want full money back, ebay doesn't cut it, because as pointed out, I'd be losing about a thousand. I can handle a loss of at most 600, but a thousand, no.


and to reiterate:


I am not looking for a 100% refund