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Montevina - Rev. A?

R

raymondu999

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 11, 2008
1,009
1
Hi guys.

Based on recent rumors that have been circulating, it seems that Montevina will sport a new design. I wanted to get a few opinions. Wouldn't this make this a Rev. A product? And, usually, as some of you know, Rev. A products from Apple are generally problematic. Are these usually corrected through software patches through software update, or actually will be corrected by hardware upgrades (eg. Rev B/C)? Basically, I'm asking if the gist of the problems faced by Rev. A products are usually hardware, or software based, and also whether or not Montevina could be considered a Rev. A product. Thanks.
 
Yeah if it's a brand new design I'd call it a rev. a product.

Apple would have plenty of experience with the internal hardware side of things so it wouldn't be a straight up lucky dip style of rev A like it was with the original MacBooks but there would still be risks involved.
 
I would call it Rev if i was a re-design.

I'd say that with their experience with Intel running in their notebook range, this would help Apple get the next model as good as they can. No one can really say how correct it is until it hits the public.

They isn't wrong with the current model apart from Heat, Yellowing issue with screen and maybe a couple of other minor things. Which one would hope are all rectified in the re-design.

It'll have is fair share of software bugs which will be corrected in the firmware updates.

It's not going to stop me from buying a Rev A product, that's what Apple Care is for and i'll definitely be extending it to 3 yrs.
 
No, Montevina is not a rev. a machine. Actually it is a rev. b version or as I would see it as the "real complete" penryn + just a different casing.

Its like taking the current penryn mbp internals and putting it in a different shell.
 
so the consensus sems to be that montevina is only new on the outside, but otherwise was like the initial core duo => core 2 duo refresh? But what's the Rev. A scare usually about, actually? is it hardware or software that acts up in Rev. A? thanks.
 
No, Montevina is not only about "new on the outside", Montevina includes a completely new chipset. The new MacBook Pro will get a completely new logic board and casing (the Montevina chips are a lot smaller and emit less heat, so a redesign perfectly makes sense). At least in my experience pretty much any Rev. A product has some issues, so I would kind of prepare mentally for that. However , considering the current Rev. D MacBook Pros you can see that even later revisions which you would expect to be rather "bug free" still have hardware issues. And usually Rev. A is plagued by hardware issues, software issues are annoying but they can be fixed much easier.

If you can afford waiting Rev. B you might save yourself some trouble, but not necessarily.

Personally I would go with a Rev. A and go for a refund in case I'm not satisfied with the product.
 
PeterKW said:
The new MacBook Pro will get a completely new logic board and casing (the Montevina chips are a lot smaller and emit less heat, so a redesign perfectly makes sense).
Click to expand...

I think a case redesign will most likely be only outer visible cosmetic things. If they somehow try to make the notebook thinner again, I fear that it will only lead to more noisy brothers to MacBook Air.
 
Ah. Thanks for clarifying. Hence, if let's say it was to be purchased for a hectic situation, ie. college etc, where a replacement device was not easily available, and repairs were not easily available, then it would be wiser to get Penryn now instead of Penryn + Mv later?
 
I just dont see the upcoming Intel processors bringing the case change, as really a Montevina is a smaller Penryn, so not much of a change, i reckon Intels Next chip out next year will bring the change.

Although this maybe wishful thinking as im about to buy a MBP.:D
 
raymondu999 said:
Ah. Thanks for clarifying. Hence, if let's say it was to be purchased for a hectic situation, ie. college etc, where a replacement device was not easily available, and repairs were not easily available, then it would be wiser to get Penryn now instead of Penryn + Mv later?
Click to expand...

Any opinions?
 
I think some people may be confused about the Intel naming/computer architecture. I don't know much, but I feel that some things in this thread are wrong, and if they are not, I am just confused.

Montevina is not a smaller penryn. Montevina cannot even be compared to penryn because montevina is a platform whereas penryn is a CPU. Therefore you cannot say we are going from one to another, actually, as I understand it, we will be using the montevina platform with the penryn CPU. So, if there is hardware change coming up, it will be from Santa Rosa to Montevina (both platforms). So any new update will not be simply the same internals and a different case. Hopefully, it is a new case and internals, but in the least it will be internals...
 
Yeap. I know. Technically we're moving from Santa Rosa + Penryn to Montevina + Penryn. I was just also thinking whether the DDR3 and 1066MHz busses would be able to remove crucial system bottlenecks, making the system significantly faster. However, I'm also worried of the "Rev. A Syndrome."
 
Montevina seems like a good time to buy if you can nab a back to school special. I put off a SR mbp last may to wait for penryn. What always happens (because I've fallen into this mindset) is that something that's not out yet is rumored to be xx% better than what's already out and amazing. There's hardly a difference between a Feb 08 mbp and the may 07, but penryn showed numbers like 40% increase in performance for games etc.

Nehalem I hope is the same way, because while I was originally waiting for nehalem I will actually need a new laptop for fall 08. I just hope montevina will bring the option for more than 4 gb of ram. I'm thinking in the not too distant future (3 or 4 years) that might be a necessary upgrade.
 
raymondu999 said:
Yeap. I know. Technically we're moving from Santa Rosa + Penryn to Montevina + Penryn. I was just also thinking whether the DDR3 and 1066MHz busses would be able to remove crucial system bottlenecks, making the system significantly faster. However, I'm also worried of the "Rev. A Syndrome."
Click to expand...

DDR3 is not going to give significant speed boosts. Yes it is faster, but the move to DDR3 is more from a power efficiency standpoint because it uses less power. As a result you will see some minor to moderate gains in battery life on notebooks with Montevina.
 
Case design changes would probably increase the amount of new components and/or placement inside the case.

To round it up, if there is a case change, there'll be more rev A components that could have bugs.

If the case does not change, there will be fewer rev A components.

I work with the IT dept over at a Mac only environment (120 + macbook users). My contact informed me the last rev A macbook had a ton of problems and consumed many hours of support with Apple. Most were hardware related which required replacement macbooks with updated components.
 
raymondu999 said:
Any opinions?
Click to expand...

Personally I would not wait. Performance wise a Montevina-based MacBook Pro will not be much better than a current Penryn MBP. But that's not the only reason. In my case I was waiting since November 07 for the new Penryn MBP's, when they were finally available in February 08 it took another month until I finally got it (even though I ordered it right after it was released). Then it turned out that the new Penryn MBP's have a some issues with their logic board which causes high pitched noises (see https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/465864/), so in the end I sent it back and I'm getting a refund now. So I spend all this time waiting, yet I don't get a better product, thus I would have been better off by simply buying a SR MBP in November (which doesn't have this issue). For now I'll get a custom desktop PC in order to have a decent machine and keep waiting for a MacBook Pro with a redesigned logic board without this flaw, but to be honest my expectations are low that the first Montevina-based MBP won't have any serious hardware issues. So the bottom line is, don't spend time waiting for some future product which is supposed to be better, but in reality isn't. I'd rather get a product which is known to have it's issues fixed, even if it's not the latest technology anymore.
 
You people are confused as hell, Montevina is a platform that uses the "penryn" chipset, the same chipset that the current mbp's have just with more features "more complete" version of the current penryn model.
 
PeterKW said:
Personally I would not wait. Performance wise a Montevina-based MacBook Pro will not be much better than a current Penryn MBP. ... <snip>
Click to expand...

FALSE. Might want to look at the full-specs of Montevina compared to Santa Rosa with Penryn, as well as early Intel benchmarks on performance improvements. Improvements aren't limited to increases in GHz...
 
PeterKW said:
Personally I would not wait. Performance wise a Montevina-based MacBook Pro will not be much better than a current Penryn MBP. But that's not the only reason. In my case I was waiting since November 07 for the new Penryn MBP's, when they were finally available in February 08 it took another month until I finally got it (even though I ordered it right after it was released). Then it turned out that the new Penryn MBP's have a some issues with their logic board which causes high pitched noises (see https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/465864/), so in the end I sent it back and I'm getting a refund now. So I spend all this time waiting, yet I don't get a better product, thus I would have been better off by simply buying a SR MBP in November (which doesn't have this issue). For now I'll get a custom desktop PC in order to have a decent machine and keep waiting for a MacBook Pro with a redesigned logic board without this flaw, but to be honest my expectations are low that the first Montevina-based MBP won't have any serious hardware issues. So the bottom line is, don't spend time waiting for some future product which is supposed to be better, but in reality isn't. I'd rather get a product which is known to have it's issues fixed, even if it's not the latest technology anymore.
Click to expand...

The upgrade from the current penryn santa rosa platform to the montevina platform will be a significant upgrade.

Your probably confused because your comparing between the previous gen SR platform with the "merom" to the newer "penryn" SR platform (current mbp) models because the only upgrade was the sse4 instruction sets + a chipset shrink to the 45nm. But the montevina will have a 1033mhz frontside bus with probably 6gb of RAM upgradability with higher 800mhz RAM.

Now that will make a huge difference as to the current penryn mbps.

Honestly I've owned the previous gen SR mbp and sold it and bought the 17" hi res penryn mbp and I see any difference except cooler temperature in the laptop. But this new montevina will be a huge upgrade.
 
jjahshik32 said:
You people are confused as hell, Montevina is a platform that uses the "penryn" chipset, the same chipset that the current mbp's have just with more features "more complete" version of the current penryn model.
Click to expand...

They aren't the only ones who are confused... Montevina is a platform, but "Penryn" is the code-name for a processor, NOT the chipset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_2#Penryn

The mobile chipset is called "Crestline".

Be careful when correcting others. The rest of your information is also uninformed.
 
Adokimus said:
They aren't the only ones who are confused... Montevina is a platform, but "Penryn" is the code-name for a processor, NOT the chipset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_2#Penryn

The mobile chipset is called "Crestline".

Be careful when correcting others. The rest of your information is also uninformed.
Click to expand...

I meant processor, but what rest of the information is uninformed?!?

Also if you want to be as technical as ever, the mbp were never the santa rosa or will be the montevina platforms since they dont have the Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN to make it the complete platforms so that means you have to refer to each chipsets/processors instead of the platform name.
 
Since it seems there is a lot of confusion, I found a link to an old thread I remembered reading.

The montevina platform has a cantiga chipset and can support the penryn processor
The santa rosa platform has a crestline chipset and can support a penryn (and the old merom)

(In a proper sense, the platform consists of a CPU, chipset, and wireless interface)


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/446019/
 
jjahshik32 said:
You people are confused as hell, Montevina is a platform that uses the "penryn" chipset, the same chipset that the current mbp's have just with more features "more complete" version of the current penryn model.
Click to expand...

jjahshik32 said:
I meant processor, but what rest of the information is uninformed?!?

Also if you want to be as technical as ever, the mbp were never the santa rosa or will be the montevina platforms since they dont have the Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN to make it the complete platforms so that means you have to refer to each chipsets/processors instead of the platform name.
Click to expand...

The reason that the rest of your post was uninformed is because the Montevina platform will use a different chipset than the current MBPs. You had said that Montevina will use the same chipset as the current MBPs.

Now you have corrected yourself to say you meant "processor" and not "chipset," so I'll assume you mean to say it will use the same processor as the current MBPs. That changes your previous post that I was commenting on. However, while Montevina will support the Penryn processors currently being used in the MBP, Intel is releasing 7 new mobile Penryn processors in May, with higher specs than the current ones used in the MBP. Apple will almost definitely use one of these newer processors, which makes your new answer also incorrect. Further, to say that Montevina will just have more features is incorrect, unless you use "features" in the broadest sense. Like "get yourself a higher FSB as a feature"...

P.S. - Don't get me started on the technical definitions of these things.
 
Adokimus said:
The reason that the rest of your post was uninformed is because the Montevina platform will use a different chipset than the current MBPs. You had said that Montevina will use the same chipset as the current MBPs.

Now you have corrected yourself to say you meant "processor" and not "chipset," so I'll assume you mean to say it will use the same processor as the current MBPs. That changes your previous post that I was commenting on. However, while Montevina will support the Penryn processors currently being used in the MBP, Intel is releasing 7 new mobile Penryn processors in May, with higher specs than the current ones used in the MBP. Apple will almost definitely use one of these newer processors, which makes your new answer also incorrect. Further, to say that Montevina will just have more features is incorrect, unless you use "features" in the broadest sense. Like "get yourself a higher FSB as a feature"...

P.S. - Don't get me started on the technical definitions of these things.
Click to expand...

How is my new answer incorrect?? Intel will use the same "penryn" processors just up the clock with higher frontside bus and a different chipset on the mbp.

As for the new features here they are:

The Montevina platform consists of:
Processors - Socket B / Socket P / Micro-FCBGA
a second-generation Intel Core 2 Duo (code-named Penryn) 45nm processor with 1066 MT/s FSB with clock speeds ranging from 2.26 GHz to 3.06 GHz, also featuring SSE4.1 support, which adds 47 new instructions to SSSE3. It is planned to consume no more than 29W, compared to Merom's and first-generation Penryn's 34W TDP.
an Intel Mobile 45 Express chipset (code-named Cantiga; GM45, GM47 or PM45) with Intel's GMA X4500 graphics technology and ICH9M southbridge, 1066 MT/s front side bus. The graphics core GM45/47 is expected to be clocked at 533/640MHz which will contain ten unified shaders, up from the GMA X3100's eight.
 
Montevina shouldn't be all that interesting with the Penryn processors, however it does set up the MBP's to use the new Nehalem which comes with an (optional) integrated memory controller which will remove the memory bottleneck.
 
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