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The Save Dialog Box: Why Does it Hate Me?

I

Insatiable

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 12, 2003
37
0
Question:

I work with a lot of files, and I save files very often. This means I spend a lot of time in the "Save" dialog box. However, I find the box very limiting because while in it, I cannot:

A) Move files from folder to folder
B) Rename existing files and folders

This is, and always has been, a drag on my productivity because I frequently need to change directory names and structures while saving a file – and it's msot often when I'm saving a file that I need to do this. XP has allowed the user to do it for what seems like forever...anybody know if there's a way to do it in OS X? Thanks!
 
?

Just minimize the app and make your changes, and come back and click the Save button.

Doing this from a tiny little save dialog would be like doing it with one hand tied behind your back. That's what it's like in XP. Use the Finder to manipulate files, that's what it's for!
 
Thanks, but that doesn't address my question. I use the expanded Save dialog box, which is the same size as any Finder window, so it's not like working with one hand tied behind my back; having to go out of my app is, however, which is why I asked the question in the first place.

Anybody else know? Is there a Terminal/Scripting option for this, perhaps?
 
Hi, could you explain verbatim what you are trying to do in the Finder? I just fired up Windows XP and typed a quick Word doc and hit save as, before saving I navigated to my desktop through explorer to move some Word docs from the desktop to my Recent items folder and I couldn't, the docs on the desktop were grayed out in Explorer. Tell me exactly how you do this in XP that can't be done in the Finder?

Edit, sorry I didn't mean grayed out, I meant that I get the circle with the slash that won't allow me to move my desktop files to another folder while in the Open and Save dialog box in Explorer.
 
There simply isn't any way to move/delete/alter files or folders in a Save dialog in OS X. You have to do these tasks in the Finder. Sorry, that's just the way it is. :(
 
HLdan said:
Hi, could you explain verbatim what you are trying to do in the Finder? I just fired up Windows XP and typed a quick Word doc and hit save as, before saving I navigated to my desktop through explorer to move some Word docs from the desktop to my Recent items folder and I couldn't, the docs on the desktop were grayed out in Explorer. Tell me exactly how you do this in XP that can't be done in the Finder?
Click to expand...
In XP, in the Open and Save dialogs, you can do (almost) everything you can do in a normal Explorer window. This includes:
  • Rename Files & folders
  • Create new folders
  • Move files & folders
  • Delete files & folders
  • Compress files & folders
  • Search files & folders

An easy example: in Word or Excel, click Save As..., select a folder, Then select the "Rename" option under the "Tools" drop-down menu in the upper right of the dialog. You'll see you can also delete it or create a new network mapped drive.
 
I think the contrast you're seeing is simply a difference in philosophy between Windows and OS X. OS X is very much about clearly delineating tasks. In this case, a modal open/save dialog is just that: a child window for a specific purpose. It's not for file management, it's just a window into the filesystem for the purposes of opening or saving a document. File management duties are the purview of the Finder. In Windows, the open/save dialog has morphed into just another part of Explorer, increasing the number of tasks you can accomplish there but also increasing user interface complexity.

I believe John Gruber wrote about this issue at length a few months ago, around when Leopard was introduced. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
 
I would seriously recommend looking at the way you tackle your workflow as it seems to be back to front. If you are spending so much time in the
'save' dialogue box & need to do these functions ask yourself why?
How about creating a rigid folder structure for the way you work, & then simply save to that. If you need to move files & rename then they were in the wrong place with the wrong name to start with?
Sorry if this comes across as just critisism, but it seems its your workflow with the flaw, not the OS.
 
andy.barron said:
I would seriously recommend looking at the way you tackle your workflow as it seems to be back to front. If you are spending so much time in the
'save' dialogue box & need to do these functions ask yourself why?
How about creating a rigid folder structure for the way you work, & then simply save to that. If you need to move files & rename then they were in the wrong place with the wrong name to start with?
Sorry if this comes across as just critisism, but it seems its your workflow with the flaw, not the OS.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's fair. There are many times I'd like to save a file with, say, the same name as the old one but still keep the old one. So, with OS X, I'd have to save the file then use the Finder to appropriately rename everything. On Windows, I can rename the old file first, then save the new file, both right from the Save dialog without interrupting my workflow or forcing me to go from app to Finder then back to app.

To Insatiable, give Default Folder X a try - I think it will do what you want.
 
Hi,

if you have a file selected in the Save dialog, pressing command-R will show it in Finder.
The catch is that the file really has to be selected, so it doesn't work with folders or files you can't save with your current app.

Hope that makes your workflow a bit faster.
/Rupert
 
I've got no problem with criticism; my workflow can always use improvement.

But it's not an issue of "wrong" file names. I work with a lot of files simultaneously, the content of those files changes, and I don't see the need to go out of one app to another to make the requisite adjustments to the names. I understand the philosophy for 1988...not so much for 2008.

At any rate, thanks xraydoc! I downloaded and installed Default Folder X. Works wonderfully! Much appreciated!

Also, thanks for the tip, Mackindergarten!
 
Insatiable said:
I understand the philosophy for 1988...not so much for 2008.
Click to expand...

Macs have always employed the KISS principle for software design (Keep It Simple Stupid). Which, for better or worse means that new users can just do what feels right rather than having to learn as such.

It is a bit of a shock when you come from a Windows background, but if you work with OS X and don't try and constantly compare it to Windows and what you can do in it then you maybe pleasently surprised and find your work flow changes to a more Mac like one and becomes just as fast as your old Windows workflow.

Trying to make something different work the same as something else never really works, you need to learn new ways of doing things to get the best out of any given system.
 
Okay, I blame myself for this because I was facetious in the thread title and didn't explain my background, so let me clarify:

I don't come from a Windows background (I own an XP box but barely use it) and I do not "constantly compare" OSX to XP. I asked one question about a feature that I'd really like to have. I love Macs; I've used them for 15 years. I own two at home, I use them at work and teach with them at school, and I'm as big a Mac evangelist as you will ever find. This is not a "Windows great! Macs suck!" situation.

Having said that, there's no single operating system that's perfectly tailored for everyone's needs. If there were, there would be no plug-ins, scripting, etc. and no need for the user-requested enhancements from 10.4 to 10.5. Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

As I said before, I'm perfectly happy to make adjustments to my workflow – I always have – but there's a huge user community and it doesn't hurt to ask. Exploring these options is part of "getting the best out of a given system".

I wasn't leading an international movement to change the internal philosophy of Apple, I just wanted to see if there's a way to do these specific things without leaving an existing app. Direct Folder X goes a long way toward providing a solution. Problem solved. Thanks!
 
Insatiable said:
Okay, I blame myself for this because I was facetious in the thread title and didn't explain my background, so let me clarify:

I don't come from a Windows background (I own an XP box but barely use it) and I do not "constantly compare" OSX to XP. I asked one question about a feature that I'd really like to have. I love Macs; I've used them for 15 years. I own two at home, I use them at work and teach with them at school, and I'm as big a Mac evangelist as you will ever find. This is not a "Windows great! Macs suck!" situation.

Having said that, there's no single operating system that's perfectly tailored for everyone's needs. If there were, there would be no plug-ins, scripting, etc. and no need for the user-requested enhancements from 10.4 to 10.5. Just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

As I said before, I'm perfectly happy to make adjustments to my workflow – I always have – but there's a huge user community and it doesn't hurt to ask. Exploring these options is part of "getting the best out of a given system".

I wasn't leading an international movement to change the internal philosophy of Apple, I just wanted to see if there's a way to do these specific things without leaving an existing app. Direct Folder X goes a long way toward providing a solution. Problem solved. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Woah, no need to be defensive I was just making a general point. I'm glad that you found a solution to your problem I was mearly expanding on what has already been mentioned in thread and trying to tie it all together.
 
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