Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Visual Media > Design and Graphics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:55 AM   #1
MassMacGuy
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Designing a "VOID" type background

I have a client who wants some gift certificates designed and wants there logo and/or the words VOID to be very faint but show up when copied like if you try to copy a check.

Is there some type of science to this?

My thinking and how I have it right now is the background is an 8% screen of PMS 300, the logo thing is over that at 12%. You can faintly make out the visual difference on a hard copy proof, and when I copy it, you do see these things popping out which is what they want, but not as drastic as I was hoping for like when you copy a check.

So is it something to do with the physical dot pattern itself? And if so how should I best design something like this?

I'm just using Indesign, does Photoshop need to be used as well to do something to this logo/Void part?

If anyone has ever had to design something similar, please share any info you might have that would help. Thanks

Last edited by MassMacGuy; Apr 16, 2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason: misspelling
MassMacGuy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 04:17 PM   #2
kevinfulton.ca
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassMacGuy View Post
I have a client who wants some gift certificates designed and wants there logo and/or the words VOID to be very faint but show up when copied like if you try to copy a check.

Is there some type of science to this?

My thinking and how I have it right now is the background is an 8% screen of PMS 300, the logo thing is over that at 12%. You can faintly make out the visual difference on a hard copy proof, and when I copy it, you do see these things popping out which is what they want, but not as drastic as I was hoping for like when you copy a check.

So is it something to do with the physical dot pattern itself? And if so how should I best design something like this?

I'm just using Indesign, does Photoshop need to be used as well to do something to this logo/Void part?

If anyone has ever had to design something similar, please share any info you might have that would help. Thanks
Hmmmmmm.......I'm pretty sure that special inks are used for checks that will reflect (or absorb) the harsh direct light of a copier. While you might be able to get something working using your own printer and copier (it will require lots of trial and error), it would be a whole other story once it gets out into the world. I would say that there's too many variables out there (different copiers, printers etc.) to have it work consistently. If the client really wants something similar I'd suggest talking to the printing company and see if they have any inks similar to what they use checks and pass the "void" graphics on to them to apply it for the client. I'm guessing the printing costs would go up for that service. If there's any other solution I don't have it. Good luck to you!
__________________
13" White Macbook, 4 GB RAM, 500GB HD, 22" external monitor, 320 GB Firewire scratch disc, 2 TB partitioned expansion/backup HD; iPad 2, 64 GB, 3G; iPhone 4S, 16 GB.
kevinfulton.ca is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:03 AM   #3
Toppa G's
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The exurbs, MN
I don't believe the inks are what allows the void pantograph to work successfully. While there are inks with special security features (color-shifting properties, for example), the void pantograph is generally created using prepress software and requires specific line screens. A printer who specializes in printing the void pantograph would be a good resource - it sounds like it's not something you can create easily in the Adobe apps and expect consistent results on any output device.

Here's a thread with some discussion.
__________________
Aw, cheese.
Toppa G's is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2012, 09:45 AM   #4
upekkharich
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: lil' rock, arkansas
there is a special paper with the VOID pattern already in the background
BUT you can fake it

create the VOID art using fine solid lines that are vector art

how successful this will be depends on the output method of the original
if you use an offset printer it is easier to achieve as they can output finer lines which a copier turns into a solid background

try a 0.25 pt line separated by 0.50 pt of negative space then repeat the pattern of solid lines

you can make the lines wiggly, too

if your output device for the original is a xerographic process then you may need to increase your line to 0.5pt and your negative space to 1 pt

GOOD luck
upekkharich is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:16 AM   #5
janalo55
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
PLEASE HELP. How do you "create negative space"?

Thanks!

----------

I guess that's not what I really meant to ask. You say ".25 pt line separated by .5 pt of negative space" and I don't know how to do that. Thanks!
janalo55 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:11 AM   #6
firedept
macrumors Demi-God
 
firedept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Somewhere!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassMacGuy View Post
I have a client who wants some gift certificates designed and wants there logo and/or the words VOID to be very faint but show up when copied like if you try to copy a check.

Is there some type of science to this?

My thinking and how I have it right now is the background is an 8% screen of PMS 300, the logo thing is over that at 12%. You can faintly make out the visual difference on a hard copy proof, and when I copy it, you do see these things popping out which is what they want, but not as drastic as I was hoping for like when you copy a check.

So is it something to do with the physical dot pattern itself? And if so how should I best design something like this?

I'm just using Indesign, does Photoshop need to be used as well to do something to this logo/Void part?

If anyone has ever had to design something similar, please share any info you might have that would help. Thanks
I would check with a cheque printing company for your best answer. It is a combination of ink colour and ? Can not remember at the moment what other part is. Used to work across the road from Davies & Henderson who specializes in this type of work. I am in the printing industry 38 years and know for fact it is not the easiest thing to achieve. Can be done though. Like I say, call a cheque printer for best answer. Talk to their prepress people.
firedept is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:48 AM   #7
upekkharich
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: lil' rock, arkansas
negative space could be called white space - see the below V for one example of a way to make the VOID pantograph in a fakey way
---------------------------------------------------
when done from completely original art with solid fills the final product is printed with two different line screens

the non-void art would be printed at a nominal screen value (say 150 l.p.i.)
the VOID art will be printed at a very high screen value (say 250 l.p.i.)

when scanned or photocopied the 150 l.p.i. art will reproduce normally, because the scanning lens can see it normally. meanwhile the 250 l.p.i. art will fill-in because the scanning lens, and standard copier/laser printer cannot accurately render all of the fine dots - the dots bleed together and produce the highly legible, easily recognizable VOID type.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2013-01-31 at Jan 31, 2013;10.45.56 AM.png
Views:	197
Size:	16.2 KB
ID:	393776  
upekkharich is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 2013, 02:57 PM   #8
ukno09
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Urgent :(

Hi upekkharich,

I was wondering if you still reply.
I am trying to make a void pantograph, but trying to use a different word instead. What program is good for making these?

Hope you are able to reply.

THanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by upekkharich View Post
negative space could be called white space - see the below V for one example of a way to make the VOID pantograph in a fakey way
---------------------------------------------------
when done from completely original art with solid fills the final product is printed with two different line screens

the non-void art would be printed at a nominal screen value (say 150 l.p.i.)
the VOID art will be printed at a very high screen value (say 250 l.p.i.)

when scanned or photocopied the 150 l.p.i. art will reproduce normally, because the scanning lens can see it normally. meanwhile the 250 l.p.i. art will fill-in because the scanning lens, and standard copier/laser printer cannot accurately render all of the fine dots - the dots bleed together and produce the highly legible, easily recognizable VOID type.
ukno09 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:29 AM   #9
upekkharich
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: lil' rock, arkansas
Adobe Illustrator
or CorelDraw

Last edited by upekkharich; Aug 7, 2013 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Typo
upekkharich is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 2013, 11:13 AM   #10
ratsg
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Would I be correct in stating that you want to be able to watermark your present work?
ratsg is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 2013, 09:10 PM   #11
ukno09
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
I was just wondering, were you asking me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratsg View Post
Would I be correct in stating that you want to be able to watermark your present work?
ukno09 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 8, 2013, 02:45 PM   #12
Mike30
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Making a Pantograph

A little research will show you that there are a large number of ways to create a pantograph on a laser printer. Patents are great for this. Take a look at Patent number 8,405,882. You’ll see that the basis behind the pantograph is the tonal weight. Here you will see that patterns have been created at the pixel level and then tiled onto the page. Where as you talk about two screens, a lower dpi for the word void and a finer one for the background. You can achieve this by making your own dots. A larger dot for the word void and a very fine dot for the background. The fine dots in the background make a kind of background shade. Today’s copiers work to remove that dirty background in an attempt to create a clean image. Imaging if you printed a document and the paper wasn’t a nice bright white. Without this ability the copier will make a grayish image of the document that you want to print. With all this said, yes your desktop laser printer can make a pantograph but don’t expect it to be of the quality of a printing house can produce. In addition, the quality of toner transfer is affected by weather, quality of toner, age of machine, cleanliness if the optics, and more. One other thing. If your planning on using this for a document that really needs to be secure – Don’t. If you can create the pantograph then that means someone else can recreate you work. After all the definition of Copy is “To Reproduce”. HP is also good enough to help us with our quest to make pantographs. See Links and have fun.


http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2011/HPL-2011-179.pdf
http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2011/HPL-2011-183.pdf
Mike30 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 8, 2013, 03:31 PM   #13
ukno09
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Thank you Mike30 for the response!
Do you know how to make this paper?
I'm actually new to any of the Illustrator or CoralDraw program.
People say this is hard to make, but I was trying to figure out first of all how to use the program itself.
Would you be helpful to guide me on creating this paper?
Thanks

If needed, my email address is kate.r3927@gmail.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike30 View Post
A little research will show you that there are a large number of ways to create a pantograph on a laser printer. Patents are great for this. Take a look at Patent number 8,405,882. You’ll see that the basis behind the pantograph is the tonal weight. Here you will see that patterns have been created at the pixel level and then tiled onto the page. Where as you talk about two screens, a lower dpi for the word void and a finer one for the background. You can achieve this by making your own dots. A larger dot for the word void and a very fine dot for the background. The fine dots in the background make a kind of background shade. Today’s copiers work to remove that dirty background in an attempt to create a clean image. Imaging if you printed a document and the paper wasn’t a nice bright white. Without this ability the copier will make a grayish image of the document that you want to print. With all this said, yes your desktop laser printer can make a pantograph but don’t expect it to be of the quality of a printing house can produce. In addition, the quality of toner transfer is affected by weather, quality of toner, age of machine, cleanliness if the optics, and more. One other thing. If your planning on using this for a document that really needs to be secure – Don’t. If you can create the pantograph then that means someone else can recreate you work. After all the definition of Copy is “To Reproduce”. HP is also good enough to help us with our quest to make pantographs. See Links and have fun.


http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2011/HPL-2011-179.pdf
http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2011/HPL-2011-183.pdf
ukno09 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 2013, 04:25 PM   #14
ukno09
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Thank you for your reply!
This is actually my first time making it for our small company.
Is making this paper hard?
I am trying to customize it using a specific word, but if I use professional companies, they charge me way too much. And I only need several papers.

Is there some steps you can guide me with if you have the time?
Or, if it is okay for you, I am willing to pay for you if you can make it for me?

Thank you for your time!
I will wait for your response.



Quote:
Originally Posted by upekkharich View Post
Adobe Illustrator
or CorelDraw
ukno09 is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Special Interests > Visual Media > Design and Graphics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPhone: Anyone use "SwipeNav" or "OpenTabBG" (Open tab in background)? TH55 Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks 3 Apr 21, 2014 03:22 PM
When I "updated" rather then "restored" my home screen background look like this! Krissypantz2828 iOS 7 16 Sep 12, 2013 05:31 PM
iPad: Ipad "stand" or case to type with apple keyboard Souli iPad Accessories 5 Jul 18, 2013 07:32 PM
iPhone: Change the Siri background (the "Custom Siri Background" is not iOS 6 compatible)? HasoMujo Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks 8 Apr 1, 2013 04:27 AM
Are there any "Warranty Void" stickers in iPhone 5? Crooks iPhone 19 Nov 12, 2012 10:46 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC