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Old Apr 24, 2012, 10:49 AM   #1
Happybunny
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Death penalty and racism.

I just read this, maybe there is hope for the future?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-s-racism.html
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 10:56 AM   #2
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I just read this, maybe there is hope for the future?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-s-racism.html
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Link didn't work. (see above).

This one??

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-s-racism.html
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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link didn't work. (see above).

This one??

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-s-racism.html
thank you.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:01 AM   #4
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Your link didn't work for me, but I think I read the right article. I think a lot of these studies on racism when seeking the death penalty ignore past behavior and crimes. White guy that hauls off and kills someone is less likely to get the death penalty than another white guy who has a record a mile long. Black people statistically commit more crime than whites and so it is more likely they will have a record when being prosecuted for murder
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:09 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Black people statistically commit more crime than whites and so it is more likely they will have a record when being prosecuted for murder
Of course, just saying that can open you up to racism too. This world is too PC.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 12:26 PM   #6
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Of course, just saying that can open you up to racism too. This world is too PC.
It's not that the world is too PC, but that stopping at race as the determining factor for this disparity in criminal behavior is not sufficient of an answer.

What aspect of race is the cause?

What other factors need to be added in?

I suspect that the further one looks into this issue, the less the color of one's skin matters.

But I welcome the truth. So bring it on.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:37 PM   #7
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This article is not quite correct. In fact, the statistics it uses almost undermines the good it can potentially do. Last I read, Blacks were far more likelier to get the death penalty. However, research has indicated that it is Whites who are more frequently executed, which shows even further bias. And then of course there is the whole man thing... Additionally, life in prison does not cost $50,000 total. It is 50k a year, which is conservative. So $50,000 x 50 years (again conservative) x 13 would be the correct math equals $32,500,000. While this is still a fraction of $4 bil, it is misleading at best how the author did this. The $4 billion dollar statistic is also incorrect.

Now am I saying this is a bad article? Not due to content. There is HUGE racial bias in our justice system. Anyone who argues against this cannot look at crime and punishment stats. Everything from jury selection, to defendant lawyer race/gender, to geographic location, to the religion of the judge has been found to have some sort of affect on ultimate outcome. However, the article uses so many emotion-invoking words and phrases that I feel like I am reading a fairy tale much like when the Republican party talks about terrorism. And this is just the tip of the iceberg in how screwed up the justice system is...
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 06:23 PM   #8
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I wonder which group is more likely to ask for fried chicken and watermelon for their last meal: blacks or whites?

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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Black people statistically commit more crime than whites and so it is more likely they will have a record when being prosecuted for murder
You mean blacks get prosecuted and convicted more frequently than whites, right? I assume that's what you mean, since you mention criminal records. The way I see it, we can't know for sure to what extent the conviction rates reflect the number of actual crimes committed. I know it's common to assume it (usually it's close enough anyway), but we should not take it for granted that it does in this case, especially since the question at hand is whether or not the legal system is biased against blacks.

Any criminologists here?

Last edited by torbjoern; Apr 25, 2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: grammatical error - fixed
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 09:17 AM   #9
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You mean blacks get prosecuted and convicted more frequently than whites, right? I assume that's what you mean, since you mention criminal records. The way I see it, we can't know for sure to what extent the conviction rates reflect the number of actual crimes committed. I know it's common to assume it (usually it's close enough anyway), but we should not take it for granted that it does in this case, especially since the question at hand is whether or not the legal system is biased against blacks.

Any criminologists here?
No, I mean if we look at the average white person vs. the average black person the black person is statistically more likely to have a criminal background. In fact black people commit 52.2% of the homicides in the US with only 12.6% (we can further reduce that to about 6.3% as most of these homicides are committed by males) of the population, along with 32.2% of sexual crimes such as rape. If you are going to assert that the only reason for this is because of racism you will need to prove your case.

There is something wrong in the black culture of the US, and its definitely not poverty because theres plenty of that to spread around without homicide rates such as these.
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 10:14 AM   #10
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There is something wrong in the black culture of the US, and its definitely not poverty because theres plenty of that to spread around without homicide rates such as these.

I believe it would be more accurate to say that there's something wrong with American culture. I don't believe you should single out a race without understanding and acknowledging how the whole has influenced and shaped it.

While I happy to talk about black culture, it needs to be viewed as a product and part of American culture and history, and not separate from it.
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 10:55 AM   #11
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I believe it would be more accurate to say that there's something wrong with American culture. I don't believe you should single out a race without understanding and acknowledging how the whole has influenced and shaped it.

While I happy to talk about black culture, it needs to be viewed as a product and part of American culture and history, and not separate from it.
What about black history would justify 50%+ of homicides committed in the US with only 6-7% of the demographic? Slavory? That's been long over. Racism? Most of these kills are on other black people and are ignored daily. Poverty? More white people than black live with that by a large margin. Fathers who don't stick around after impregnating someone? Who's in control of that? Poor education? Likely due to the single parent who can't control their kid and make sure he's attending class because the deadbeat father left.

I'm not sure why people are trying to gloss over the statistics or find excuses for the problems instead of addressing them. Its not an issue with black culture, its an issue with American black culture.
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 10:21 AM   #12
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I wonder which group is more likely to ask for fried chicken and watermelon for their last meal: blacks or whites?

Really dude? Your post is pathetic.
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 10:37 AM   #13
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The sad fact is that humans are prejudice and that innocent people have been put to death based on prejudice or the simple need to blame someone, anyone of the right color. In addition, the death penalty is a lower standard than humans should aspire too. This is why I am against the death penalty. One innocent put to death is unacceptable to me.
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Old Apr 26, 2012, 02:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by torbjoern View Post
You mean blacks get prosecuted and convicted more frequently than whites, right? I assume that's what you mean, since you mention criminal records. The way I see it, we can't know for sure to what extent the conviction rates reflect the number of actual crimes committed. I know it's common to assume it (usually it's close enough anyway), but we should not take it for granted that it does in this case, especially since the question at hand is whether or not the legal system is biased against blacks.
I absolutely agree. There is every possibility that these statistics are extremely unreliable.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 12:27 AM   #15
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Everything is being connected to racism these days.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 12:38 AM   #16
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Everything is being connected to racism these days.

Just because you weren't aware of it doesn't mean it's new.

Complaints about the inherent racism of the criminal justice system come from analyses going back more than 30 years.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 01:18 AM   #17
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Everything is being connected to racism these days.
I've decided I am going to be offended by everything.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 08:52 AM   #18
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Don't worry, we will see legal system quotas soon enough. Arrests will only be possible if they reflect the population distribution. Once one special interest group, whether it be racial or socially motivated, meets its quota, no more arrests will be made within that group.....

...sounds like a great move plot....but there are some who believe this would be a good thing, and they are even on this forum...
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:27 AM   #19
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I absolutely agree. There is every possibility that these statistics are extremely unreliable.
Not only are the statistics unreliable, but using them to prove that the justice system is fair and unbiased, is circular argumentation which is invalid. One can use such argumentation to prove that even blatant lies are true.

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Really dude? Your post is pathetic.
It may certainly be "pathetic" to point out logical fallacies as described above, but I refuse to believe that it is. Sorry that the world is not how you'd like it to be.

Last edited by torbjoern; Apr 29, 2012 at 07:00 AM.
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