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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:04 PM   #1
mscriv
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[WW] General Game, Rules, and Strategy Discussion

Ok, the Mods shut down the actual game threads pretty quickly after they are completed, so here's a place we can use to actually discuss general gameplay, ideas, strategy, rules, and other stuff.

At the time of this posting the game just completed was Jav's anniversary game.

Taking into account all the games I've played in and the one I hosted I am definitely of the opinion that we need to stop all "after death" posting. There are arguments between dead players and alive ones, conversations about stuff non-game related, etc. etc.. As players improve and new strategies emerge we really need to preserve the integrity of the game by limiting these interruptions. Dead players continuing to post is distracting and damaging to play. You may not think you are giving away something, but you are. You may not think you are affecting the game, but by changing the pace or allowing a non participating player to post something random you affect game dynamics.

So, that's a point I wanted to make. What do you all think or what else do you think we need to discuss?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:11 PM   #2
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I just want to throw my hat into the ring for hosting the next game, if everyone is okay with that.

Also, I agree, mscriv. Maybe allow one non-influencing farewell post and nothing more.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:13 PM   #3
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One option I was throwing out with ravenvii and others on twitter. Everyone can PM everyone else, wolves don't know who each other are at start of game. Makes it more like a survivor type game with secret alliances.

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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:13 PM   #4
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I would disagree that the dead need to stop posting. I just think they may need to be more mindful of what they say. We also dont need any macbookproi5 type posts, but I dont think that will be an issue from here on out.

You maybe be changing the games flow, pace etc, but ive played in end are really boring because no one is posting. I'd rather keep it fun and interesting.

Also I think we need a set of rules we can copy and paste. The game can mod them as they see fit, but a generic outline with stuff that doesnt change much. I feel like we used to do that.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:16 PM   #5
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Agreed. I allowed after-death posting, because I saw it had subsided to levels people could accept. Yet there was still the occasional drama that can be avoided.

I move to ban all after-death posting. After all, dead in-game is dead. No one in real life speaks from the grave.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:19 PM   #6
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I don't mind the after-death posting at all, as long as the comments aren't about the in-game play.

It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. Part of the fun is continuing to follow along and even participate a little bit in some of the conversations.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:21 PM   #7
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my .02 cents.

i would say one farewall post as well.

i really get annoyed when their are 25+ posts off topic and if your still alive, you have to go thru each post to make sure you don't miss any clues.

for those of us that use tapatalk during gameplay, it sucks.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rick snagwell View Post
my .02 cents.

i would say one farewall post as well.

i really get annoyed when their are 25+ posts off topic and if your still alive, you have to go thru each post to make sure you don't miss any clues.

for those of us that use tapatalk during gameplay, it sucks.
but the "spam" dont always come from the dead. The two are not mutually related.

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Originally Posted by chrmjenkins View Post
Allowing after-death posts inevitably leads to game related posts. It's happened in every game I've seen, so it does need to be outlawed.
And BS. We've run lots of games without any issues. I would argue we didnt even have any issues this game. I removed my post as a curtesy, but the game was over at that point, as not only I pointed out.

If think it should be up to each game god to run it how they see fit.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Koodauw View Post
And BS. We've run lots of games without any issues. I would argue we didnt even have any issues this game. I removed my post as a curtesy, but the game was over at that point, as not only I pointed out.
But it didn't necessarily have to be. And that's the point.

edit: People seem to be in favor of keeping after-death posts, so it seems there just needs to be strict enforcement of temporary bans from games for those who violate.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mscriv View Post
Taking into account all the games I've played in and the one I hosted I am definitely of the opinion that we need to stop all "after death" posting. There are arguments between dead players and alive ones, conversations about stuff non-game related, etc. etc.. As players improve and new strategies emerge we really need to preserve the integrity of the game by limiting these interruptions. Dead players continuing to post is distracting and damaging to play. You may not think you are giving away something, but you are. You may not think you are affecting the game, but by changing the pace or allowing a non participating player to post something random you affect game dynamics.
This is going to sound really whiny of me, but forbidding all "after death" posting would really, really ruin the experience for me. Being able to post non-inside information about the game is the only real reason I'm even interested in following a game to its conclusion once I've been eliminated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koodauw View Post
I would disagree that the dead need to stop posting. I just think they may need to be more mindful of what they say. We also dont need any macbookproi5 type posts, but I dont think that will be an issue from here on out.
This. The poster boy for inappropriate posting has been banned, I don't think it would be an issue in future games. However, if the mob agrees to make this a rule, so be it.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:04 PM   #11
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i disagree on a hard ban or a precise number of posts allowe, but players should be considerate and really post little. Most do.
what should be avoided is lengthy off-topic exchanges involving dead players.
overall, i don't think it's a major issue or something that needs to be discussed at length now.

moving to more interesting (to me) topics i think there are two major areas where the game has room for improvement

1. keeping some (legit) involvement for dead players
2. giving plain villagers a more involved role

to address this i propose the following:

1. zombies. when a regular player is lynched or attacked by wolves, instead of dying he becomes a zombie.
Zombies are not 'villagers' anymore, they form a new team that can win the game and beat both villagers and wolves.
there are multiple ways this can be tried.
One is that zombies keep voting in lynchings, and can be lynched or attacked by wolves. Once they are 'killed' for the second time, they are done for good, are destroyed and out of the game.
However, you don't need to waste a lynching to kill a zombie: any zombie with 3 votes (or a number to be decided, which may also be linked to number of players) is destroyed, regardless of the final result of the lynching (so for example in a single lynching you may have a player lynched - who becomes a zombie- and 2 zombies destroyed).
Zombies are not known for their bright minds, so they can vote, but cannot post game related analysis or comments: their regular posting rules are the same as for dead players, but their votes do count as everyone else's.

2. items. every player, regardless of their role, is randomly assigned a special 'item' at the beginning of the game.
Items are useful, but not game-changers, and are not comparable in quality to real 'specials'.
Basically it means that everyone has some (limited) special power, but not everyone has a special role (that's because you need plenty of simple villagers to 'hide' the specials). Specials and wolves also get the special item on top of their regular abilities.
One example of this items would be a one chance of being immune from any night activities (scanning or killing), a vote-blocker or a vote-doubler (to be used only once, publicly). The 'pool' of items is known at the beginning of the game, but not all items are necessarily used.
for example with 12 players you may have 15 items (3 hiding, 3 one-time night protection, 3 double votes, 3 vote blocks, 3 immunity from lynching). 12 are used and 3 remain unused. Specifics obviously need to be fleshed out and balanced.
i think it would give more interest to the game and add a lot of more unpredictability to the end-game, because a game that appears to be finished might not be and vice-versa
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Last edited by Don't panic; Jun 25, 2012 at 05:32 PM.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:28 PM   #12
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Allowing after-death posts inevitably leads to game related posts. It's happened in every game I've seen, so it does need to be outlawed.

Only other option I see is to give the dead a role. I don't know that there's a simple way to do it though.

Perhaps allow the dead to speak and say anything they'd like. They can even vote, but it doesn't impact the actual in-game vote. However, if their majority and the village's majority coincides, and the person lynched is a bad guy, one of them gets to come back to life (only once), such as a crowd-sourced Mystic ability. However, I don't think even this would work: you'd need to strengthen the baddies for this, it would be obvious what the motives of dead bad guys is, and good specials who die could potentially reveal vital information. It makes the good guys too strong and it too convoluted. But maybe there is some way to make it work.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 04:35 PM   #13
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What if the dead could speak, and collectively revive one of "their own" after there were a specified number of dead. Of course, you couldn't be able to reveal your role while dead.

And, I feel that the goofiness of the dead are a great incentive to even still follow the games.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:09 PM   #14
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There hasn't been a complex game per say... all of them have been simple with wolf only enemies.
Mscrivs game was complicated to say the least.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1329037
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:19 PM   #15
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How will they scan? Ie, as a wolf/villager and when?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 11:41 PM   #16
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I can handle who is doing what, even when we had the new roles, and could do that well. I can't write. Maybe I'll take QoS up on her offer to "ghost write" sometime.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:42 PM   #17
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I think the lost in the woods approach works, but I would make it so that the post where you vote doesn't count as participation, ie you need to post twice each day.
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 04:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mscriv View Post
Looking at the past few games and our current one, I'm wondering if Ravenvii didn't have things right in the beginning with requiring a majority lock for all votes and not having time deadlines. I know we changed things because a few games really dragged out with people not voting. Additionally, there were some concerns due to the the time zone differences between players.

However, I just find it so odd that with our current time based system that a player can literally be lynched with just a few votes while there are multiple throw away votes. It's becoming increasingly common to see a player lynched with say 4-6 votes when there are more are 20+ players in a game.

I'm beginning to think that despite some potential drawbacks, forcing the village to reach majority actually forces players to interact more. People can't hide behind throw away votes as enough players will have to make a choice in order for the game to progress. When we played this way in the past voting usually quickly focused around two or three players and then those players had to plead their case for why they shouldn't be lynched. Again, this forced interaction and allowed for more information in the game.

Hmm... anyone else have thoughts on this matter?
I tend to agree.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 07:06 PM   #19
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Okay, here's another big game idea that could be a fun change. Most storytellers always randomly assign the roles among the players. What if we change that up a bit. How about after sign ups close but before roles are given each person send a PM to the storyteller with their top two choices for role preference. Then we randomize based on the pools that are formed.

For example, if 10 out of 20 players would like to be the Seer then the randomization is only run with those 10 players names. This would allow for people to at least have some chance to play a character that they have an interest in playing. Obviously, there are no guarantees as the selection is still random, but it would improve odds. It wouldn't negatively affect game play or give away any clues because no one knows what anyone else's preferences were.

Thoughts?
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 04:09 AM   #20
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You call it analytical, I call it made up nonsense...
I think you're just as bad.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 06:15 PM   #21
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I think you're just as bad.
Perhaps so....
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