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Old Jul 9, 2012, 07:59 PM   #1
AndyR
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How do you manage AVCHD?

Hey,

Looking for ideas on how you guys manage AVCHD files at the mo?

I recently became a Dad (yey!) so my photo/video habits have gone from taking the occasioanal photo and near to no video, to tonnes of photos and video clips of the daughter. Now at the moment all photos go into iPhoto, not a problem, but videos are all AVCHD via my Sony NEX-5N. Prior to the iPhoto update for AVCHD I was importing everything into iMovie, then exporting as MP4 to reduce the space. But because I'm getting so many videos its becoming a pain, and I noticed that iPhoto converts AVCHD to MOV files, but I get loads of interlacing issues when playing the video in iPhoto but not if I play the file directly.

So I was wondering, how to you guys manage AVCHD files? Am I best to keep going with iMovie and exporting each time?

Thx,

Andy
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 08:20 AM   #2
ctyhntr
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Do you really need your current camera (AVCHD)? I've been eyeing the New iPad (tm) as it has a 1080p camera, and wished my old Kodak Zi8 had longer battery life.

My issue with AVCHD is when iMovie imports them as events, it generates a Pro Res mov file that about 10 times the size of the AVCHD MTS files. Ever thought about just copying the entire AVCHD folder to an external hard drive and preview them using VLC?
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 11:08 AM   #3
HobeSoundDarryl
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AndyR, store the original AVCHD folders (a copy from your camcorder's storage to a hard drive) and not just the "stream" folder but all of the files. You really should store a copy too (meaning you end up with 2 copies of the AVCHD files) on at least 2 hard drives.

Store at least one of these hard drives away from your primary residence (maybe with parents, bank safe deposit, secure place at work, etc). This is the fire & flood-proofing piece. Home movies are precious that will grow in (personal) value as each year passes. You don't want to lose them because you didn't use some kind of backup... especially with hard drives as cheap as they are.

The reason to store the AVCHD originals is that there will come a time when you might want to compress them into something better than H.264 (when that comes out). Going back to the originals will maximize the quality of those new renders in the future. Recompressing your H.264 renders is going to sacrifice quality. 10-20 years from now, such a (latter) option might have you on the third, fourth or fifth generation of re-compression. It will be much better to be able to go back to the originals for those future codecs EVERY TIME.

OK, so now you have a hard drive(s) with all of your AVCHD files and an off-site copy of that hard drive too.

Organize your AVCHD by shoot dates. For example, I name my folders with date ranges so that I can come back to them later. If you want to re-render your child's 1st birthday, you'll easily be able to find the right original AVCHD.

As you shoot new AVCHD, I find it much more convenient to use a tool like Chronosync to update the latest AVCHD folder (with the new footage). That kind of tool also makes it very easy to regularly update your off-site backup.

iMovie is OK for AVCHD but I became frustrated with its limitations and gave FCPX a try. I feel like FCPX maximizes what I can get out of the AVCHD my camcorder can shoot (for example, FCPX can handle the Dolby Digital 5.1, 60fps video, etc).

I've got a workflow where I use a tool called Clipwrap to do the conversions from AVCHD to ProRes, then use FCPX to do the editing of the ProRes files, render back out to ProRes, then use Handbrake to render a small final version (hiprofile preset) for itunes (to flow to TV3).

Tools like MetaZ or MetaX are great for tagging those files for iTunes storage. I tag them as "TV Shows" so that all of our "home movies" can be organized in TV by year. This also works very well making them on-demand and convenient whenever anyone wants to see anything we've got.

Again, backups are important... so consider a main hard drive(s) for storing all of your video media as well as a backup hard drive should the first one conk out. Again the latter should be stored off-site if at all possible.

If you have nothing to start with, you could possibly get by on just 2 high capacity drives to cover both backups (storing both your building library of AVCHD backups and your iTunes video media) on the same drive, then backing them up to the other drive. High capacity hard drives are pretty cheap.

Depending on how much you care about quality maximization, you may not need FCPX and thus Clipwrap at all (I just prefer them because I find iMovie too limiting). I do think a good tool like Chronosync is well worth it (for camcorder to hard drive and then hard drive to backup hard drive); it makes it much easier than manually doing those updates.

IMO, iTunes plus TV3 is THE way for home movie management and playback.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Jul 11, 2012 at 06:53 PM.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 04:16 PM   #4
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First off, Congratulations!

It depends, in part, on what you want to do with the files. Do you want immediate access to the movies or is it more about archiving/storing your source footage?

Are you converting for size or viewability? The source AVCHD files are relatively small and if it's just for archiving, I'd stick with those. If it's for viewing, I'd still consider archiving the AVCHD files, but that will get large after a while.

For archival, I agree with redundancy and offsite, but one step at a time (that's a good basis for any backup workflow, however). As HobeSoundDarryl mentioned, you want to keep the whole PRIVATE folder structure intact. I nest the private folder within another folder whose name is meaningful, i.e. "20120712 Kidling" or such. You'll want that private folder for ingesting the footage into iMove, Final Cut Pro, or another video editing program.

There's probably a decent way of converting straight from the AVCHD files to h.264 quicktimes, but I don't know what it is offhand.
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Old Jul 12, 2012, 05:03 PM   #5
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Thanks. Mainly archive at the moment, as I can play direct with MPlayerX.

I spent a couple of hours messing around last night I've decided I'm just going to do a basic copy of the AVCHD files

Reason being, I looked at the import iPhoto was doing (and it changes to MOV) which is fine but as iMovie cant see them and I cant share them easily with my AppleTV (as iPhoto doesn't present movies) that was out. So I went back to iMovie and importing. I took 2Gb of AVCHD of my camera into iMovie and ended up with 18Gb of Events. I then tried exporting which I've done loads of times for 720p, and tried it for 1080p and although it works it was just too clumsy and time consuming. Having to import into iMovie then export to MP4 was an extra step I didn't like.

So lastly I just copied the AVCHD files to a folder. Didn't maintain the file structure, just wanted the MTS files. I can play these fine in MPlayerX and can stream directly with AirVideo. I then tried converting a couple of Handbrake on the High Profile setting to MP4 and took about 2 mins for a 300Mb AVCHD file to a 120mb Mp4. I could then link this in iTunes which happily streams it to my AppleTV. So for the time being I'm going to go that last step. I can batch encode videos if I want with handbrake too then, as well as keeping the AVCHD files for later, and if I want to edit I could use something like Clipwrap to get them into iMovie and edit.

Thanks for the help though guys. Just needed to get my head around it
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 01:46 PM   #6
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I wasn't sure if Handbrake could handle the .MTS files or not...great to hear it does.

I would strongly encourage you to keep the whole PRIVATE folder structure. You don't need it until you do. You can always grab the raw .mts files out of the stream folder when you need them, but if you ever want to import into iMovie, FCP, etc., you'll be really glad you saved the folder structure. Spacewise, it's not noticeably bigger than just the raw files...mostly metadata/folder structure.

I haven't used MPlayerX. I've used Movist and been moderately pleased w/ it, but will try out MPlayerX.
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Old Jul 13, 2012, 01:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AndyR View Post
... if I want to edit I could use something like Clipwrap to get them into iMovie and edit.
Transcoding .MTS files (AVCHD footage) to an editable format (.MOV)
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 03:50 PM   #8
dgalvan123
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
AndyR, store the original AVCHD folders (a copy from your camcorder's storage to a hard drive) and not just the "stream" folder but all of the files. You really should store a copy too (meaning you end up with 2 copies of the AVCHD files) on at least 2 hard drives.

Store at least one of these hard drives away from your primary residence (maybe with parents, bank safe deposit, secure place at work, etc). This is the fire & flood-proofing piece. Home movies are precious that will grow in (personal) value as each year passes. You don't want to lose them because you didn't use some kind of backup... especially with hard drives as cheap as they are.

The reason to store the AVCHD originals is that there will come a time when you might want to compress them into something better than H.264 (when that comes out). Going back to the originals will maximize the quality of those new renders in the future. Recompressing your H.264 renders is going to sacrifice quality. 10-20 years from now, such a (latter) option might have you on the third, fourth or fifth generation of re-compression. It will be much better to be able to go back to the originals for those future codecs EVERY TIME.

OK, so now you have a hard drive(s) with all of your AVCHD files and an off-site copy of that hard drive too.

Organize your AVCHD by shoot dates. For example, I name my folders with date ranges so that I can come back to them later. If you want to re-render your child's 1st birthday, you'll easily be able to find the right original AVCHD.

As you shoot new AVCHD, I find it much more convenient to use a tool like Chronosync to update the latest AVCHD folder (with the new footage). That kind of tool also makes it very easy to regularly update your off-site backup.

iMovie is OK for AVCHD but I became frustrated with its limitations and gave FCPX a try. I feel like FCPX maximizes what I can get out of the AVCHD my camcorder can shoot (for example, FCPX can handle the Dolby Digital 5.1, 60fps video, etc).

I've got a workflow where I use a tool called Clipwrap to do the conversions from AVCHD to ProRes, then use FCPX to do the editing of the ProRes files, render back out to ProRes, then use Handbrake to render a small final version (hiprofile preset) for itunes (to flow to TV3).

Tools like MetaZ or MetaX are great for tagging those files for iTunes storage. I tag them as "TV Shows" so that all of our "home movies" can be organized in TV by year. This also works very well making them on-demand and convenient whenever anyone wants to see anything we've got.

Again, backups are important... so consider a main hard drive(s) for storing all of your video media as well as a backup hard drive should the first one conk out. Again the latter should be stored off-site if at all possible.

If you have nothing to start with, you could possibly get by on just 2 high capacity drives to cover both backups (storing both your building library of AVCHD backups and your iTunes video media) on the same drive, then backing them up to the other drive. High capacity hard drives are pretty cheap.

Depending on how much you care about quality maximization, you may not need FCPX and thus Clipwrap at all (I just prefer them because I find iMovie too limiting). I do think a good tool like Chronosync is well worth it (for camcorder to hard drive and then hard drive to backup hard drive); it makes it much easier than manually doing those updates.

IMO, iTunes plus TV3 is THE way for home movie management and playback.
This sounds like a good method. I import all my AVCHD into iMovie and use the "archive" option to also make a copy of the AVCHD originals for backup storage. And yes I backup BOTH the AVCHD originals AND the iMovie library so that they are stored in two locations. (Two external hard drives, that is. I haven't done the offsite backup thing yet.)

My issue, as a father of a 1- year old and a 3 year old, is never having enough time to jump through all the hoops to actually manage the video after it is imported to iMovie, let alone export to iTunes.

I just want to be able to import the video to my computer and then, with minimal effort, be able to view it on my Apple TV. This process is dead simple for photos, and a pain-in-the-butt for home movies. Why?

For home movies:
1. Import from camera to iMovie.
2. Trim/edit the clips I've imported. (to remove unwanted footage and hence save disk space.)
3. Move clips I'm interested in from iMovie "Events" to an iMovie "Project".
4. Export that project to iTunes. (Takes significant time.)
5. Now viewable on Apple TV!

For photos.
1. Import from camera to iPhoto.
2. Now viewable on Apple TV!

It is for this reason that our most recent photos are always quickly viewable on our Apple TV with virtually no effort , while our home movies stay locked away in iMovie until I finally get time to mess with them, usually months later.

There has to be a better way.

-------------------

The other problem: I'd say 70% of the video we record these days comes from non-AVCHD sources: My wife and I each have iPhone 5's, and we also have a Canon Rebel T2i. All of those take 1080p video, and all get used for video more often than our Vixia camcorder, usually just because we have any of those devices closer at hand than the camcorder. (When going to the zoo or on a longer trip, we are going to bring the SLR for sure. With our phones that gives us three methods to record 1080p video. So why bother also lugging the Vixia?). The video from our iPhone 5's sits on our phones until we (very rarely) connect them to our mac using the cord. We do that very rarely, since we have them set up to do a nightly wi-fi sync, which takes care of transferring files between the mac and the iPhone, but it doesn't import the photos/videos taken by the iphone into iPhoto on the mac. You have to do a wired USB synch for that. Why doesn't Apple enable import of iPhone photos to iPhoto via wifi?

Anyway, all the videos from the iphones and the SLR go into iPhoto by default, not iMovie. The plus: those videos are now immediately viewable on apple tv! The minus, it's not really intuitive to have to sit in front of your tv, want to watch a home movie, and get to it by selecting "Photos".
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 05:45 PM   #9
AndyR
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Originally Posted by dgalvan123 View Post

It is for this reason that our most recent photos are always quickly viewable on our Apple TV with virtually no effort , while our home movies stay locked away in iMovie until I finally get time to mess with them, usually months later.

There has to be a better way.
Same problem mate. Its this reason I have now brought Adobe Premiere Elements 11 and use that to quick edit my AVCHD without having to wait for iMovie to import them and the huge size. Makes it super quick to edit the AVCHD files now and wont be touching iMovie again for a while.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 05:52 PM   #10
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That last part is very right. iPhoto is for photos. Yes, it can import video too but that's not its primary purpose. You're trying to force something that's not really intended to be heavily used that way.

Similarly, iMovie is very much about editing and not about storing. iMovie is not to video what iPhoto is to pictures. The latter is the intended storage database for all pictures. iMovie is meant to be an intermediary between your video camera (or iPhones, etc) and iTunes. iTunes is where the videos are intended to be stored after you edit them toward whatever you consider perfection.

Video is not as conveniently available as photos because video is 24, 30, or 60 photos per second. If your camera was shooting that many photos every second, it would be a huge task to import all of them into iPhoto and have quick access to them.

But the way around that is to make the time to process your videos into final forms and then render them. Once rendered, drop them in iTunes and they are readily available. Yes, not as fast as just importing a few photos into iPhoto but it will be as fast as you making the time to edit them and then render. In my case, I shoot about 2-3 hours of home movies every other weekend or so. Net after editing will be about 2 hours. Much of the process I describe above is letting the Mac do the work. For example, set up the import and go do other things while it imports. Set up Clipwrap to convert and go do other things while it converts. The real time spent on video work is the editing piece and that can take a few hours to do fine editing (of several hours of raw video), put in some chapter markers, etc. Once edited, I hand the work back to the Mac to render out that Prores version. Then, I hand it back to the Mac again to have Handbrake turn the Prores into a H.264 file ready for TV3.

In short, once you get a workflow in place, much of the work can be done by your computer. Get it going and go do other things. Check on it when you think it should be done with a step. If it is done, start the next step and go do other things. The more time consuming parts in my workflow get done while I sleep (the Mac "stays up" and does the work).

Yes, it would be great if video could be as easily filed & organized as still photos but video is a entirely different medium. It does require a bit more work by it's custodian but you can make your computer do most of the time-consuming stuff if you map out a good workflow.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Mar 13, 2013 at 06:03 PM.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 03:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
That last part is very right. iPhoto is for photos. Yes, it can import video too but that's not its primary purpose. You're trying to force something that's not really intended to be heavily used that way.
Maybe it's not intended to be used that way. . . but if it worked well it would be exactly what I need. If iPhoto accepted AVCHD (and if the AVCHD were able to be streamed through iTunes straight to the Apple TV, just like my iPhone video clips are now), I would import all my camcorder video clips to iPhoto as well. I'd let iPhoto be the place I organize my video clips, just like it is the app that organizes all my photos. I wanted iMovie to be the iPhoto of home movies, but all the transcoding involved, and the fact that Apple TV can't stream iMovie's database like it can iPhoto's database, keep it from being that.

I get the rationale for why Apple included video support in iPhoto: more and more often, our videos are coming in side-by-side with still photos from iPhones, point-and-shoots, and DSLRs. It makes sense to have a video clip in the same iPhoto "event" as a bunch of stills if they are all from the same real-life event. Also, many of us are not interested in doing significant editing to video clips (other than "trimming"), so why shouldn't we be able to treat video clips like photos, at least in their organization?

Philosophy aside:
I do like that my iPhone home videos are instantly available for viewing on my Apple TV right after I import them to iPhoto, without any additional effort from me. What I don't like is that, to get to these on the ATV, I go Computers-->Library-->PHOTOS--> and then the event containing the videos, but at least they are there. This also works "in theory" with my Canon Rebel T2i movies as well in that they are instantly accessible on the ATV. . . but in practice it's not a solution because the T2i .mov files are so high bit-rate that it takes frustratingly long for the ATV to stream the video. And frankly, the video is not much higher quality than the iPhone 5 1080p, these days. So it's jarring to watch a quick-streaming iPhone 5 video on the Apple TV, and then switch to a T2i video only to have to wait and wait for it to load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Similarly, iMovie is very much about editing and not about storing. iMovie is not to video what iPhoto is to pictures. The latter is the intended storage database for all pictures. iMovie is meant to be an intermediary between your video camera (or iPhones, etc) and iTunes. iTunes is where the videos are intended to be stored after you edit them toward whatever you consider perfection.
I agree that this is how it ends up being used most of the time, but I don't think it's what Apple intended. Or at least, it's not how they describe iMovie. Just look at Apple's own description of what iMovie is:

(from here: http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/what-is.html#home)
Quote:
"iMovie puts it all in one place and organizes it for you so your video is easy to browse and fun to watch. Just plug in your device, open iMovie, and start importing your video. It appears in your Event Library — the one place you’ll find everything you’ve ever recorded. Just like photos in iPhoto, videos are organized by Events. And as your collection grows, you can rate clips as “favorite” or “rejected,” tag them with preset or custom keywords, and filter them so you can find the best scenes (or hide the ones you’re not thrilled with)."
"the one place you'll find everything you've ever recorded" sounds like "storage" to me. Not just an intermediary for editing things that are on their way to iTunes. "Just like in iPhoto" is pretty strong indicator that Apple is selling iMovie as the iPhoto of home videos. They've added many features from iPhoto (keywords, face detection, etc.) that are about storage and organization.

Also from Apple's description:

Quote:
Who says you have to edit? iMovie is a great place to just sit back and watch. View your video full screen without any desktop distractions, flipping through your video library using Cover Flow the same way you flip through albums in iTunes. You can also toggle between events and projects, skim quickly through clips, and watch individual scenes.
Again, they are comparing iMovie to the other iLife apps: iMovie is where you go to flip through your home videos. . . just like iTunes is where you go to flip through your albums (and commercial videos).

Apple is advertising iMovie as a place to STORE, ORGANIZE, and VIEW home video content. You may see it merely as an editing waypoint, but Apple is telling us that iMovie IS the iPhoto of videos. And, really, that's what I as a consumer would WANT: a central app that does for video clips what iPhoto does for my photos.

And it WOULD BE, EXCEPT for one place iMovie falls short:

iMovie's database of clips is not accessible via Apple TV. Whereas iPhoto's database of photos (AND videos) is.

My understanding is that this is a technical problem. iMovie stores its video database in AIC so that the video can be easily/quickly viewed and edited, making interaction with the video in iMovie very fast. But the bit-rate for these AIC .mov files is EXTREMELY high, so it's not suitable for streaming to ATV. The fix would be for Apple to find a way to store its database in something other than AIC; something that could be streamable. That, or maybe the clips are all initially stored as .h264 or something else that could easily be streamed, and then if you want to select a clip to do some more advanced editing with (something beyond "trim"), only then does iMovie convert it to AIC. Say, a clip isn't converted to AIC until it is dropped into a "Project".

It seems like Adobe Premiere Elements 11 is basically doing the same thing as iMovie (being an application to store, manage, organize, and edit your home videos), but is able to edit more types of video natively (like AVCHD). I would love it if iMovie went that direction. Because right now it seems a bit crippled as one of the iLife apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
But the way around that is to make the time to process your videos into final forms and then render them. Once rendered, drop them in iTunes and they are readily available. . . .
In short, once you get a workflow in place, much of the work can be done by your computer.
I hear ya. It's really the editing itself that takes the time. I think if I had a solution that let the clips be viewable on my Apple TV without me doing any editing at all, I'd probably just let that happen and save the editing for my retirement years. But with iMovie I've been importing and organizing all my video clips in there as events (as Apple suggests), but then not making the time to do the further work of putting them into projects and exporting them.

I've already invested a good amount of time organizing my iMovie library "events" (removing unwanted footage, naming each event by date and short description, etc.). I don't want to have to re-do all that organization in some other program. I suppose I could just simply grab each "event", quickly make it a "project" without any further editing, and let iMovie export that project to iTunes. But then the video would essentially be triple-stored: once as the original movie file (AVCHD or whatever), again as an AIC clip in the iMovie database, and a third time as an .mp4 in iTunes.
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Old Apr 7, 2013, 04:51 PM   #12
huggies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
AndyR, store the original AVCHD folders (a copy from your camcorder's storage to a hard drive) and not just the "stream" folder but all of the files. You really should store a copy too (meaning you end up with 2 copies of the AVCHD files) on at least 2 hard drives.

...
...
...
As you shoot new AVCHD, I find it much more convenient to use a tool like Chronosync to update the latest AVCHD folder (with the new footage). That kind of tool also makes it very easy to regularly update your off-site backup.
Question from another new dad

So I am doing fine copying over the entire structure (not just MTS) but everything, and am starting to look at Chronosync.

My question is what happens if I delete a few videos already backed up from the camcorder? (to clear up space, not because i don't want them). On the next synch, I know that the new clip-related files (both the MTS and any of the other files like .CPI, etc.) will come over, and I know how to set up Chronosync so it WON'T delete the deleted clips from the final destination.

The question is, are there any other "master" files in the folder structure that are edited after you delete a clip, that then on the next synch would overright the previous version? I guess I'm trying to understand if the entire folder structure contains files that are like "Table of Contents" for all the clips?

Sorry if confusing..I want to make sure I'm future proofing myself and preserving all the files I should be for 10 years down the line if there are better ways to do this.

thanks in advance. Please let me know if i can clarify the question
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Old Apr 7, 2013, 06:20 PM   #13
HobeSoundDarryl
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Here's what I do to keep it somewhat simple (at least this seems simple for me): I have a hard-drive camcorder so I end up with about 18 hours of HD in each AVCHD archive. I render video as I shoot and then close the archive when the camcorder HD is too close to full to be safe (safely have enough room for the next shoot).

I shoot something, then it might be a week or three before I shoot something else. As I shoot, I go ahead and import, edit, render. For instance, I just shot a sports event today, edited it today and am rendering it this same evening. The outtakes or clips I don't want to keep get back colored red (labeled red) but otherwise left in the archive. Chronosync doesn't care what color you tag (label) the files.

When I finally get to the end of this archive (when the camcorder drive is too full to trust it for the next shoot) I go back and delete all of the red-labeled AVCHD files. I used to delete dynamically, then set up Chronosync to not copy them to my drives again but I find the above simpler and quicker (space is not much of an issue for me). I don't have to think much about it and I'm looking at every clip in FCP X anyway, so I just do the labeling while I review the clips.

Note, I also end up with some clips that I edit down (maybe a 2 minute clip is going to get cut to 1). In that case, I tag those yellow. They'll stay in the archive after I delete the red-labled files. If I ever need to come back to these masters, those yellow labels will remind me that those clips need special attention when re-editing from the master files.

I hope that is helpful. It works great for me and doesn't require much thought or much work with Chronosync.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Apr 7, 2013 at 09:02 PM.
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Old Apr 8, 2013, 12:49 PM   #14
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Interesting. That is certainly different workflow than I had anticipated, which was more deleting clips off the camera after they'd been safely backed up. (To always keep enough space). I imagine in my way the "Table of contents files" that get synched up to computer might be altered such that a chronosync run would mess up previous backed up info? (Not the older clips themselves, but more any "table of contents" type files...apologies again if there are no such files in the structure.)
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 07:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by AndyR View Post
...then exporting as MP4 to reduce the space...
Hi

It has been said before to copy the whole structure as a backup with good how to's. If you copy the card every day, but don't erase the contents, you are coping things multiple times. That costs space, and since you copy on the same disk, it doesn't give you redundancy.

Regarding space: AVCHD is MPEG4/H264, so converting in MP4 (container) with probably H264 codec doesn't reduce space since it is the basically same.

Just copy the content in folders (no need for DMG's or so) and whipe the card. Make sure you have it on multiple disks. If you want to edit, transcode and after the edit, throw away the (large) temporarily files.
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Old Apr 7, 2013, 03:22 PM   #16
bms17
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Avchd

Andy,
I use isoft video convertor, which converts things to mov. files and then drag them into imovie. Works great.

Barry Schwartz
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