Apple Hit with $368 Million Judgment in VPN Patent Lawsuit from VirnetX

[MacRumors]

Bloomberg reports that VirnetX has been awarded a $368.2 million judgment against Apple in a 2010 patent lawsuit over virtual private networking (VPN) connectivity related to Apple's FaceTime video calling feature.

The VirnetX patents cover the use of a domain-name service to set up virtual private networks, through which a website owner can interact with customers in a secure way or an employee can work at home and get access to a company's electronic files. VirnetX had sought $708 million in damages.

"For years Apple refused to pay fair value for the VirnetX patents," Doug Cawley, a lawyer with McKool Smith in Dallas who represents VirnetX, said in closing arguments. "Apple says they don't infringe. But Apple developers testified that they didn't pay any attention to anyone's patents when developing their system."

The technology was developed as part of work conducted by defense company SAIC on behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency, and VirnetX is a holding company created by former SAIC employees. VirnetX has indicated that it plans to seek a halt to continuing use of its technology by Apple, so it is unclear how the two parties will proceed toward a potential resolution that would keep FaceTime intact.

Article Link: Apple Hit with $368 Million Judgment in VPN Patent Lawsuit from VirnetX

[Moof1904]

I hope face time doesn't go away. I use it all the time.

[TimUSCA]

Originally Posted by Moof1904

I hope face time doesn't go away. I use it all the time.

It won't.

[JGowan]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[ReallyBigFeet]

Originally Posted by JGowan

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Exactly. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[JGowan]

Originally Posted by JGowan

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Originally Posted by ReallyBigFeet

Exactly. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Goose/Gander and Live/Die by the Sword hardly "exactly". I love Apple. I certainly don't want them to die. I just feel that lawsuits can go both ways.

BTW, Apple's too big to "die" anyway.

[KdParker]

Originally Posted by Moof1904

I hope face time doesn't go away. I use it all the time.

it will not .. Apple will just have to pay.

[kdarling]

My opinion: lay juries shouldn't decide technical questions. It's like having a dozen random people off the street make medical decisions for you.

Anyway, there's a couple of side effects that are up in the air:

• VirnetX has a request before the ITC to ban the importation into the U.S. of Apple products that use their patents. This could bolster their case.
  
  
• Apple will probably have to rewrite Facetime to avoid VirnetX's patents, since the latter seems to want to ban use of its patents by Apple. (This is just like how Android had to avoid Apple's bounceback patent, which Apple likewise didn't want to license.)

[madmin]

So if I got that straight, anyone using dns to connect a vpn session has to pay these people who incidentally already got paid by the govt to develop their system in the first place ? Dunno bout Facetime but it sure is Facepalm !

[EbookReader]

the patent system is broken.

[Popeye206]

Just keeping all the lawyers employed.

[EbookReader]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-trial-1-.html

The focus of the trial before U.S. District Judge Leonard Davis was on Apple’s FaceTime, which lets people use Mac computers to make video calls to an iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad. The Cupertino, California-based company said it used a different technology than what was covered by the VirnetX patents.
“Apple does not owe money to VirnetX,” Danny Williams, a lawyer with Williams, Morgan & Amerson in Houston who represents Apple, told the jury. “VirnetX is not entitled to money for things they did not invent. The VirnetX technology, if used, is a small part of very large, complex products.”

[Oletros]

And people still say that software patents are good

[HobeSoundDarryl]

(judgement against Apple) Cue 500+ posts about the patent system being broken, needs reformed, stupid patent system, patent trolls, this shouldn't even be patentable, etc.

(judgement for Apple) Cue 500+ posts about patent system working, "die _______ die!", intellectual property should be protected, serves them right, other companies should innovate rather than copy, etc.

[nutjob]

What goes around comes around.

[ntg]

"Apple Hit with $368 Million Judgment in VPN Patent Lawsuit from VirnetX"

? hmmm

not much of a 'Hit' from the 100+ billion...

I imagine they'll pool their pocket-change for this one!

[SeniorGato1]

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Just keeping all the lawyers employed.

Judges are former lawyers

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by EbookReader

the patent system is broken.

Oh, so when it's Apple that's guilty, the patent is broken...

Software patents are just an abheration.

[neuropsychguy]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Oh, so when it's Apple that's guilty, the patent is broken...

It's broken when Apple wins and broken when Apple loses. The brokenness of the patent system transcends and pre-dates individual rulings.

The fact that Apple or any number of other companies can patent some of the things that they patent is supporting evidence for the need of an overhaul of the patent system. Patents are necessary to protect inventions and innovations but patents are granted with what amounts to arbitrariness in our world of changing technology. The patent system was designed for a much different day and has to be overhauled.

[Krazy Bill]

Krazy Bill's Father: "Son, you should be a patent lawyer when you grow up."

Krazy Bill: "Why? Nobody is stupid enough to steal patents you silly old dude."

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Krazy Bill

Krazy Bill: "Why? Nobody is stupid enough to steal patents you silly old dude."

That's because breaking into the USPTO and changing the name on patents so as to swipe ownership of them is quite an exercise. You'd also have to cover your trail well enough so that when the true owner shows up, he can't prove you stole his patent.

That's why no one steals patents.

[mjtomlin]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Oh, so when it's Apple that's guilty, the patent is broken...

Software patents are just an abheration.

The patent system is broke when you can prove you've developed the technology on your own and can still be sued when someone else comes along and said they did it first. That's just complete crap.

ALL a patent should do is make sure someone can't take your product and duplicate it. That's not what happened here. This is the Eastern District of Texas here... this isn't the first time they've refused to let companies defend themselves. It is an award happy court.

[kingtj]

I was going to post the same thing; that the patent system is clearly broken. But it's not to rush to Apple's defense. The fact they can waste millions at a time bickering back and forth with the likes of Samsung is just as ridiculous as this patent suit.

It's becoming a big legal battlefield, where any decent sized company has to start fighting, or else they're just a target for patent attack by someone else out there. By picking on as many other businesses as possible, you can keep winning enough settlements to cover your losses when other guys come after you for things.

I watched a video last night by a former world bank manager (giving a speech at a university). One of his main points was how the USA gave up our manufacturing base because we were sure we "didn't need to do manual labor like that anymore in a modern society". We relied on becoming a service industry. But now we've outsourced much of that to other people. So then we were a technology leader, but we've watched the Asian continent and India take that away from us in recent years too. So the question is, what does America have left to make money with?

Right now, it looks like nobody really has the answer so a lot of poaching is going on by way of the legal system and relatively baseless lawsuits.

Probably another sign of our demise ...

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Oh, so when it's Apple that's guilty, the patent is broken...

Software patents are just an abheration.

[jessica.]

Originally Posted by EbookReader

the patent system is broken.

If you truly believe this then I totally hope you're not found in the threads discussing Apple suing Samsung cheering them on.

The patent system isn't designed to work in Apple's favor. If anyone thinks that then I can understand why they believe the system is broken.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by jessica.

The patent system isn't designed to work in Apple's favor. If anyone thinks that then I can understand why they believe the system is broken.

I think anyone winning from this patent is proof enough the system is in dire need of fixing. These people basically managed to patent VPNs just by wording it carefully.

Just check it out. This is the abstract to one of the patents Apple was sued over...

"A secure domain name service for a computer network is disclosed that includes a portal connected to a computer network, such as the Internet, and a domain name database connected to the computer network through the portal. The portal authenticates a query for a secure computer network address, and the domain name database stores secure computer network addresses for the computer network. Each secure computer network address is based on a non-standard top-level domain name, such as .scom, .sorg, .snet, .snet, .sedu, .smil and .sint."

It's a VPN with funky domain names. And it was filed in 2000! VPNs have been around since, like, I dunno...3 BC give or take.