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Old Nov 16, 2012, 12:56 PM   #1
peeaanuut
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I really do not understand some of the moderation that goes on around here

So been a member for a while and not sure if the moderators have changed or what, but wow, it has really become quite locked down around here. During the iPad mini launch I make a comical post, which there were already 9 or 10 of them. Of course it was nonsensical but between the "you got an iPad mini so you are a ****ing retard" and the "steve jobs is gonna kill you" thread I thought it could be a good tension breaker. But of course my thread is killed and sent to oblivion, but all of the other posts remained. Then I make a comment about a moderators post in a community thread and my thread is edited because I dared make a comment about some overblown ego of a moderator. I have run across a few other ones like this before as well.

Then I try to respond and am told to use the contact form instead of responding to a PM. I have now done that 3 times and have received NO response. I mean, sure, rules are rules, but really, not being able to respond to a moderators comments at all? Isnt that just a little bit of overinflating the egos?

I will be in complete shock if this post is allowed to stay.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:34 PM   #2
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To each his own. I've been thinking there's not enough censorship (yeah, CENSORSHIP, forget moderation, they need to bring in the nukes) on this board lately and that it used to be much more fun when the forums were occupied by people who were not blatant anti-Apple trolls, ordinary anarchists or just spoiled juveniles typing trash into the cosmos from the comfort of their parents' overpriced, mortgaged-to-the-hilt bedrooms.

Of course I do not imply that either of you are one of any of that sort of person. Your post merely caught my attention due to its title and I decided to append my own two cents, in which I agree with at least your comment that moderation of these forums may have changed. We just disagree on whether it should be tightened up or loosened.

I too will be surprised if this thread lasts longer than ten seconds... since we have no power over guidelines or mods.

Personally I think what I need to do is bother to construct an ignore list. You guys won't be on it though.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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To each his own. I've been thinking there's not enough censorship (yeah, CENSORSHIP, forget moderation, they need to bring in the nukes) on this board lately and that it used to be much more fun when the forums were occupied by people who were not blatant anti-Apple trolls, ordinary anarchists or just spoiled juveniles typing trash into the cosmos from the comfort of their parents' overpriced, mortgaged-to-the-hilt bedrooms.

Of course I do not imply that either of you are one of any of that sort of person. Your post merely caught my attention due to its title and I decided to append my own two cents, in which I agree with at least your comment that moderation of these forums may have changed. We just disagree on whether it should be tightened up or loosened.

I too will be surprised if this thread lasts longer than ten seconds... since we have no power over guidelines or mods.

Personally I think what I need to do is bother to construct an ignore list. You guys won't be on it though.
I think there are more pro apple trolls than anti ones. Censorship seems to have hit an all time high around here. Even tho this is a forum it is still the internet. The trigger finger mentality has to get toned down.

I wonder why the PRSI is moderated at all, just let the animals run loose. If not just shut down the forum for good.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 07:46 PM   #4
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Yeah but MacNut, this is or was an Apple-centric forum, so why would it not be pro-Apple?

Many of the forums seem to have become battlegrounds for marketers of other products. Now I don't care if someone wants to buy another product, let them go for it. Why come here at all if they don't care for Apple stuff? It's not that they don't care for Apple stuff; it's that they don't want people to buy Apple stuff, and that's not their bailiwick, so I say let them take it outside.

I'm tired of deliberately provocative thread titles, for one thing. This is a pretty new development, inside last 12 months or so. It seems to aim at facilitating spread of disinformation (yeah, "MacRumors" and not nice ones either!) about Apple gear.

It's trolling from the get-go when someone puts up one of these hyperbolic titles that boil down to a claim that Apple just sucks.

I'm not referring to actual problem reports and questions like those that invariably pop up when something goes awry in the supply chain, the assembly line, the documentation, etc. No one's perfect. Stuff happens. Not every one will post feedback to Apple immediately, so MacRumors forums are (or WERE) a good place to look or to post, when you bump into an issue you haven't seen with your gear before. Nine times out of ten it would resolve the question of "is this just me or is this a model hardware / software issue?" Now I would have no idea and would have to get into Apple tech support queue to find out. Too much trash talk on the boards.

There's no excuse for threads of the sort like "Why I really hate this apple product I bought and will return because it sucks" and so forth. How about "Question about battery life of new nano" instead? And then pose the situation of concern and let it go at that. Why put it like "Battery life of new nano shows Apple engineers are no good". I made that up but it's not far off some titles I've seen.

Maybe I need to take the time to report threads for their provocative titles and suggest different titles, to be constructive. But then you know, if the guy is a troll anyway, how is a different thread title going to keep some stupidity from becoming 500 posts of yada yada for the 10th time. I end up just wanting to post "YOU TROLL!" like a three year old in a sugar crash.

I don't know. I have really enjoyed hanging out here until a little while back, maybe starting with iPad or iPhone 4 forward is when it seemed to start going downhill. Maybe that's when Apple really had started biting into the smartphone market and now with the Airs, and the iPads, the competitors are just freaking out. "All's fair in love and war" but I'm not sure MacRumors members should have to become some kind of killing field.

Here's another thing. To be perfectly honest, if it weren't for all the trolling I run into here, I might actually explore some of the gear that people are trying to pitch while bashing Apple. But they get my back up so much that I refuse to entertain the ideas any more. Take about backlash and unintended consequences!
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 09:26 PM   #5
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Yeah but MacNut, this is or was an Apple-centric forum, so why would it not be pro-Apple?

Many of the forums seem to have become battlegrounds for marketers of other products. Now I don't care if someone wants to buy another product, let them go for it. Why come here at all if they don't care for Apple stuff? It's not that they don't care for Apple stuff; it's that they don't want people to buy Apple stuff, and that's not their bailiwick, so I say let them take it outside.

I'm tired of deliberately provocative thread titles, for one thing. This is a pretty new development, inside last 12 months or so. It seems to aim at facilitating spread of disinformation (yeah, "MacRumors" and not nice ones either!) about Apple gear.

It's trolling from the get-go when someone puts up one of these hyperbolic titles that boil down to a claim that Apple just sucks.

I'm not referring to actual problem reports and questions like those that invariably pop up when something goes awry in the supply chain, the assembly line, the documentation, etc. No one's perfect. Stuff happens. Not every one will post feedback to Apple immediately, so MacRumors forums are (or WERE) a good place to look or to post, when you bump into an issue you haven't seen with your gear before. Nine times out of ten it would resolve the question of "is this just me or is this a model hardware / software issue?" Now I would have no idea and would have to get into Apple tech support queue to find out. Too much trash talk on the boards.

There's no excuse for threads of the sort like "Why I really hate this apple product I bought and will return because it sucks" and so forth. How about "Question about battery life of new nano" instead? And then pose the situation of concern and let it go at that. Why put it like "Battery life of new nano shows Apple engineers are no good". I made that up but it's not far off some titles I've seen.

Maybe I need to take the time to report threads for their provocative titles and suggest different titles, to be constructive. But then you know, if the guy is a troll anyway, how is a different thread title going to keep some stupidity from becoming 500 posts of yada yada for the 10th time. I end up just wanting to post "YOU TROLL!" like a three year old in a sugar crash.

I don't know. I have really enjoyed hanging out here until a little while back, maybe starting with iPad or iPhone 4 forward is when it seemed to start going downhill. Maybe that's when Apple really had started biting into the smartphone market and now with the Airs, and the iPads, the competitors are just freaking out. "All's fair in love and war" but I'm not sure MacRumors members should have to become some kind of killing field.

Here's another thing. To be perfectly honest, if it weren't for all the trolling I run into here, I might actually explore some of the gear that people are trying to pitch while bashing Apple. But they get my back up so much that I refuse to entertain the ideas any more. Take about backlash and unintended consequences!
I think MacRumors has become a promotional tool more than a rumors site. Just look at the majority of stuff on the front page. It isn't about rumors anymore. As for the trolling, I really think there is more pro Apple anti Android going on. Criticizing Apple seems to be a bad thing even tho Apple has done plenty wrong lately. I don't see why Android should not be talked about, many Mac users also use Android. Sure the iPhone areas are a cesspool but they always were ever since the original iPhone debuted. It seems to me that MacRumors has been over run by hipsters that only care about their phone and iPad.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 10:31 PM   #6
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@ MacNut Well I could do without some of the "cosmetic issue" threads in most of the forums, that's for sure. I worry about this country sometimes when I read through one of those things.

I'm going to avail myself of some site tools and maybe even stay out of the iPad forums for awhlie. What I don't see I won't go nuts over.

I kind of like the "news" part of "news and rumors" on the homepage here because it lets me skip some feeds, email lists and sites I'd otherwise probably feel compelled to put up with. Sure lots of it is practically PR but i find a lot of it informative and useful.

As far as PRSI I think the mods do okay when someone reports they think some line got crossed. I've seen stuff left in that I thought was over the line and I've seen stuff go away that I figured was borderline or just juvenile. Not my job, glad they're doing it.


Dear mods, you may get some thread title suggestions though, if I go back to iPhone / iPad threds! Ciao for now / L.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 01:39 PM   #7
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I will be in complete shock if this post is allowed to stay.
Are you waiving your right to moderation privacy? If so, then we can discuss the details of your moderation history, all of it.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:08 PM   #8
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Are you waiving your right to moderation privacy? If so, then we can discuss the details of your moderation history, all of it.
Why not respond to the contact us forms as you instruct those in violation to do? Why wait for them to come here and make a public post? Why is there a double standard, especially when you hold all the edit/delete cards?


But sure, let it fly.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:25 PM   #9
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Why not respond to the contact us forms as you instruct those in violation to do?
Contacts are handledd by admins, and admins only - and for this reason, they take a little longer (usually at least 24 hours, but sometimes up to a week, depending on the issue(s) at hand).

After a quick look, I'm unable to find any contacts sent from your account ... would you mind sending it again, if you truly want an admin answer?

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Why is there a double standard, especially when you hold all the edit/delete cards?
What double standard? We rely, almost entirely, on post reports, because we cannot possibly read every single post on the forums - it is just not possible. Quite often, the reason one post gets deleted and another stays, even if they are in the same thread, is that one was reported and the other was not.

Last edited by r.j.s; Nov 16, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:29 PM   #10
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Why not respond to the contact us forms as you instruct those in violation to do?
Did you send the Contact Us form in under your username "peeaanuut"? About what date and/or time did you send them in?
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 02:36 PM   #11
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ill resend them for each of the violations I have sitting in my PM Box. I usually sent them after getting a response telling me to use it. I used the link at the bottom of the page that says contact us and then I selected either the site feedback button or the other button.

yes, they were done while I was logged in and the username and e-mail were auto filled in.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 05:04 PM   #12
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ill resend them for each of the violations I have sitting in my PM Box. I usually sent them after getting a response telling me to use it. I used the link at the bottom of the page that says contact us and then I selected either the site feedback button or the other button.

yes, they were done while I was logged in and the username and e-mail were auto filled in.
Please post here when you've resent them - we want to make sure they are received.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 05:02 PM   #13
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To be fair, I have had great response from moderators, namely Doctor Q, when I have used the contact us links to bring up concerns.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:50 AM   #14
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Why not respond to the contact us forms as you instruct those in violation to do? Why wait for them to come here and make a public post? Why is there a double standard, especially when you hold all the edit/delete cards?

But sure, let it fly.
As I pointed out above, we can't find any contact message sent from your user name. Since you've waived your right to moderation privacy, here's a review. Moderation takes history into account.

On November 2nd you received a reminder for calling another member a troll. If you read the Rules for Appropriate Debate, you'll see that members are specifically told that you can't call a troll a troll. You can debate the content of a member's post, but you can't call that member names.

On November 8th you received a reminder for soliciting (offering to pay for help). That's also a clear rules violation - you'll find that situation mentioned specifically in the Forum Rules.

On November 11th you received a reminder for a frivolous/off-topic post. At this point you could have received a warning rather than a reminder, since moderation is escalated. This was however a very minor thing, so the moderators seem to have decided that a reminder was sufficient, which I can understand. Instead of contacting us to explain the context, you responded with this PM:

Quote:
are you kidding me? I cant post something on this site that I have seen plenty of other people post plenty of times? This is getting pretty ridiculous. You guys are quite anal and ridiculously up tight. have seen mods make posts just like this and nothing, they dont get deleted at all. Pretty onesided "club" you got going here.
On November 16th you received yet another reminder (still not escalated to a warning) because you discussed specific moderation in a public thread:

Quote:
Im 34 years old and I was put on time out by someone I have never met and could possibly be younger than me. The internet sucks. lol
This comment was in direct response to a moderator's note in the thread, and was made despite the fact that 1) the comment itself is a rules violation, and 2) your account has never been put in a temporary suspension ("time-out"). Your comment was a response to a quote of a mod note. Mod notes are only inserted into threads when necessary - we don't want to disrupt the discussion, but very occasionally we insert a note in the hope that members will self-moderate from that point on. Replying to them only takes the thread off-topic, so if you've got a particular beef about moderation it's better to start a thread here (as long as it's worded in general terms) or send a contact (if you want to be specific).

Today you were given your first warning, for insulting another member:

Quote:
You are an absolute idiot.
After reviewing your moderation history, I see that the moderators have been fairly patient, issuing reminders when they could have escalated to warnings sooner. You're made it clear that you feel moderation is too strict, but the rules are outlined, you accepted them as part of the registration process, and in each case you've been moderated there was reason to do so, with a basis in the rules.

Remember that each member is responsible for his or her own posts, regardless of what anyone else posts. If you see problems, report them, and if the moderators agree that a rule was broken, something will be done. If you report something and nothing is done, you can contact us to ask why - we're happy to explain, and since there was no moderation involved we can be specific in our answer to you. We wish there were some sort of automatic feedback function to let members know when no action will be taken on their reports, but unfortunately there isn't.

You can't however use other members' posts to defend your own. If you'd like to contest moderation, send a contact message. It helps to be clear and polite in the message, but we respond to every contact that isn't obvious spam, regardless.

I hope this clears it up, not only for you, but for the other members following this thread.

Edit: I see you responded while I was preparing this review. I still hope that this post makes things make a bit more sense.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:31 PM   #15
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how is deleting posts a reminder?

Also, I have been called names plenty of times on here with no edits to the persons posts. My "frivelous" post was nearly an exact copy of at least 4 other posts that were made in that section and until recenly were still available to be posted in including posts by mods/admins.

As far as the time out comment, it was a statement about how the thread was locked down for everyone. Apparenly noone has a sense of humor. And a rule that says basically, our word is final and you cant contest it is pretty totatiltarian is it not?

And as far as calling that member and idiot, go read the thread. he is an absolute idiot without a doubt. Now the troll, we cant report a troll as being a troll? Is a duck no longer a duck?

So apparently I just need to drink the cool-aid. You are all awesome people and have no inflated egos or image issues. You are the best ever. Apple is god, everything else sucks, long live Steve Jobs, macrumors is the best ever and has never been wrong or had any sort of bad posters ever. This place is all dandiliouns and honeysuckle. Namaste.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by peeaanuut View Post
Also, I have been called names plenty of times on here with no edits to the persons posts.
Did you report the posts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeaanuut View Post
My "frivelous" post was nearly an exact copy of at least 4 other posts that were made in that section
Did you report the other posts?
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Originally Posted by peeaanuut View Post
And a rule that says basically, our word is final and you cant contest it is pretty totatiltarian is it not?
The site isn't owned by the posters. The site owner has the right to set any rules they choose, and you agreed to those rules when you registered.
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And as far as calling that member and idiot, go read the thread. he is an absolute idiot without a doubt. Now the troll, we cant report a troll as being a troll? Is a duck no longer a duck?
Clearly, you haven't read the rules.
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Insults. Direct personal insult of another forum member (e.g., "You are an idiot.") and other name-calling. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. You may dispute somebody's opinion but not attack/flame the person who stated it.
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Name-calling. Name-calling falls into the category of insults and will be treated as such according to the forum rules, your own opinion about another member notwithstanding. You can't call a bigot a bigot, a troll a troll, or a fanboy a fanboy, any more than you can call an idiot an idiot. You can disagree with the content of another member's statement or give your evidence or opinion to dispute their claims, but you may not make a negative personal characterization about that member.
The moderation on this site, while not perfect, is for the most part balanced and fair. When you clearly violate a forum rule, you don't have a legitimate argument when moderators take the appropriate action.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:49 PM   #17
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how is deleting posts a reminder?
It isn't. Reminders are semi-automated messages that go out to a member when there's been a violation. You would have received them in your PM inbox. The posts with problems are either edited or removed, depending on the situation.

Quote:
As far as the time out comment, it was a statement about how the thread was locked down for everyone. Apparenly noone has a sense of humor. And a rule that says basically, our word is final and you cant contest it is pretty totatiltarian is it not?
Since you used the words time-out, we couldn't know that what you actually meant was a thread being locked. You agreed to accept and follow the rules as part of the registration procedure. That's not totalitarian, that's an agreement you willingly and knowingly entered.

Quote:
And as far as calling that member and idiot, go read the thread. he is an absolute idiot without a doubt. Now the troll, we cant report a troll as being a troll? Is a duck no longer a duck?
No, you cannot call an idiot and idiot or a troll a troll. See here - it's spelled out very clearly, the first point under the category "Respect".

Quote:
So apparently I just need to drink the cool-aid.
Nope. Just follow the rules.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 11:07 PM   #18
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So been a member for a while and not sure if the moderators have changed or what, but wow, it has really become quite locked down around here. During the iPad mini launch I make a comical post, which there were already 9 or 10 of them. Of course it was nonsensical but between the "you got an iPad mini so you are a ****ing retard" and the "steve jobs is gonna kill you" thread I thought it could be a good tension breaker. But of course my thread is killed and sent to oblivion...
Create a new thread with more useful information! Problem solved.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:08 AM   #19
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So been a member for a while and not sure if the moderators have changed or what, but wow, it has really become quite locked down around here. During the iPad mini launch I make a comical post, which there were already 9 or 10 of them. Of course it was nonsensical but between the "you got an iPad mini so you are a ****ing retard" and the "steve jobs is gonna kill you" thread I thought it could be a good tension breaker. But of course my thread is killed and sent to oblivion, but all of the other posts remained. Then I make a comment about a moderators post in a community thread and my thread is edited because I dared make a comment about some overblown ego of a moderator. I have run across a few other ones like this before as well.

Then I try to respond and am told to use the contact form instead of responding to a PM. I have now done that 3 times and have received NO response. I mean, sure, rules are rules, but really, not being able to respond to a moderators comments at all? Isnt that just a little bit of overinflating the egos?

I will be in complete shock if this post is allowed to stay.
I've just checked, and there's still no record of any contact sent from anyone with your user name. In addition, you haven't answered the question you were asked earlier in the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejo View Post
Are you waiving your right to moderation privacy? If so, then we can discuss the details of your moderation history, all of it.
Since the rules specifically state that the contact form is the way to ask, comment on, or complain about specific moderation, and since the OP has not waived his right to moderation privacy, I'll close this thread now. If a contact is sent, it will be answered.

One of the mods just pointed out to me that the OP did indeed waive his right to privacy when he wrote "let it fly". I didn't catch it myself. So I'll open the thread back up and we'll reply with a moderation review here.

Last edited by annk; Nov 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 11:26 AM   #20
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yes, things much more important took precendence this weekend and really Im pretty much losing interest in caring. Nothing I say or do will change anything that happens here. So Ill just move one but feel free to continue discussing whatever you would like.
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