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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:40 PM   #1
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Intel Reports Fix Coming for Flickering on Monitors Connected to 2012 Mac Mini via HDMI




Following last month's launch of new Mac mini models, a number of users in the MacRumors forums and Apple's support forums have cited issues with flickering on external monitors connected to their machines via HDMI. Connections via Thunderbolt/Mini DisplayPort are not affected.

The issue seems to be a known one related to the Intel HD 4000 graphics used in the Mac mini, and Intel has now acknowledged the issue in the Mac mini and indicated that a fix is on the way. A timeframe for a fix delivered through Apple is, however, so far unknown.
Quote:
We are aware of the flickering issue, and there will be a fix provided in the future. The overall flicker issue is also being addressed here; http://communities.intel.com/thread/32932

Your OEM (Apple) will provide the driver with the fix when they are done configuring our driver (that has the fix). An ETA on this is currently unknown.
Apple has begun developer seeding of OS X 10.8.3 with an emphasis on graphics drivers, but it seems to be unclear at the present time whether the current beta version of OS X 10.8.3 contains the specific fix for this issue.

Article Link: Intel Reports Fix Coming for Flickering on Monitors Connected to 2012 Mac Mini via HDMI
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:42 PM   #2
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How about the fact that many 2012 Mini owners are stuck at 10.8.1 and unable to upgrade for some unknown reason?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Wildog27 View Post
How about the fact that many 2012 Mini owners are stuck at 10.8.1 and unable to upgrade for some unknown reason?
I'd prefer the flickering to be addressed first.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:44 PM   #4
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Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
Apple are the ones pushing for integrated GPU's. That's why there are no discrete GPU's in the rMBP 13" and MBA's.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:09 PM   #6
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Apple are the ones pushing for integrated GPU's. That's why there are no discrete GPU's in the rMBP 13" and MBA's.
Hardly. AMD is moving the market to APUs and Intel knows it has to do something better than their HD 4000/5000 or they will open up x86 to AMD. It's another reason for the Xeon Phi to compete against GPGPUs and the HSA Initiative which is founded upon LLVM and OpenCL.

Apple wants SoC to have as small a form-factor as possible while improving system performance.

The Macbook AIR is an example of where Mobile GPGPUs have room to scale down before they're able to put them back in such a thin frame. Until then, the integrated section from Intel's HD 4000 will have to do.

The moment Nvidia and AMD can put an extremely thin, low power, but dedicated discrete gpgpu in that form factor Apple will jump on it. AMD's upcoming Radeon HD 8000 series is reportedly 33% more power efficient in power, even at 28nm. AMD is moving to 20nm in 2013 and 14nm in 2014 thanks to GlobalFoundries.

The power efficiency increases and the die size drops will be win/win for Apple's thin is in all the way up to the thin doesn't matter Mac Pro.

AMD is dropping their GPGPUs pricing for the HD 8000 series by > 20% while computational improvements are up > 60% for SP and DP.

New materials will soon launch CPU/GPGPU designs producing performance and power consumption drops that will once again remind us all how amazing this industry is relative to any other in the globe.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:24 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
This doesn't seem fair to me. A GPU is actually a performance optimized CPU. Intel has been in the *PU business for a long time.

Maybe Apple should stay out of the cell phone business, or the map business, using that same logic.

This is good news actually that Intel is dedicated to helping the 5-10% market share of the Mac users. They admitted a problem and intend to fix it instead of just ignoring us.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:54 PM   #8
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Because we need this thread in addition to the main 20 page one in addition to all the other short ones each user created.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by FakeWozniak View Post
This is good news actually that Intel is dedicated to helping the 5-10% market share of the Mac users. They admitted a problem and intend to fix it instead of just ignoring us.
True. If the problem was Apple's they'd probably say you were looking at it wrong.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:35 PM   #10
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future passed

Interesting to see the Mini with vintage computer equipment. I'm not feeling the 90's nostalgia yet, though.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:13 PM   #11
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Well...this is nothing new...

A few years back I bought a new MBP (2008) with a 30" cinema display from Apple. I had 'flickering' from the get-go on the big monitor. Apple first calibrated the monitor...no luck. Then they replaced my logic board. No help. they replaced my 30" mointor. No luck, as well. I complained to Apple throughout my entire 3 year warranty period and, to their defense, Apple tried to fix this but couldn't. So I live with it every day.

It wasn't a waste of almost $2000 for the monitor but I will make damned sure this does not re-occur when I upgrade my MPB next year.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:14 PM   #12
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Same Issue on iMac 27" mid 2011
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
So the Macbook Air, Macbook Pro 13 inch and Mac Mini wouldn't have any GPU lol? Apple can already put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU if they wish, they can turn off Intel's GPU or have it be switchable, they just don't because they want their cost to be low, not provide a powerful laptop.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by StealthGhost View Post
So the Macbook Air, Macbook Pro 13 inch and Mac Mini wouldn't have any GPU lol? Apple can already put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU if they wish, they can turn off Intel's GPU or have it be switchable, they just don't because they want their cost to be low, not provide a powerful laptop.
that is not about cost, it is all about apples marketing.. imagine mac mini with decent GPU.. who the heck would by imac (or at least base imac)? but truth is, in the end, its all about apples profit
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
Intel is the cause of the entire situation currently, and not just because they can't write decent GPU drivers. They also took legal action against NVidia producing their own chipsets for the Core series processors back at the tail end of 2009, bringing an end to the last decent integrated chipset/GPU for Macs--the 9400M. Now we're stuck with Intel's integrated GPU.

I really don't mind that they are producing the hardware, but the drivers are unacceptably buggy.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
Intel is the cause of the entire situation currently, and not just because they can't write decent GPU drivers. They also took legal action against NVidia producing their own chipsets for the Core series processors back at the tail end of 2009, bringing an end to the last decent integrated chipset/GPU for Macs--the 9400M. Now we're stuck with Intel's integrated GPU.

I really don't mind that they are producing the hardware, but the drivers are unacceptably buggy.
Well, the 8600M series from Nvidia was a huge bust. Bumpgate was the word. Nearly all of them were recalled from every OEM including Apple (HP, Dell, etc, etc). The 9400M wasn't much better, it flickered and flickered (was particularly bad on the 9400M+9600M MBP). This was a known problem that wasn't fixed for a LONG time (I think on the order of years after the 9400M's were introduced). Nearly all the 8800s' were cooked in the iMacs of yore, so there is a lengthy history for that as well. So I don't know how Nvidia is any better as far as GPU issues are concerned. Never mind that Nvidia doesn't seem to know how to design a good chipset other than inserting a GPU into it. Their chipsets had troubles with RAM compatibility and SSD compatibility. None of that was ever fixed to my knowledge. So while Intel isn't great on GPUs, their chipsets and CPUs work well. I am absolutely not convinced of Nvidia other than their flagship GPUs.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Intel should just stick to CPUs and leave the GPUs to nVidia and AMD/ATI. That's the best solution here.
All Apples fault... no one force them to use only thos ****** intel gpus....mini 2012 only with intel piece of ****, thank you tim
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by William Gates View Post
Apple are the ones pushing for integrated GPU's. That's why there are no discrete GPU's in the rMBP 13" and MBA's.
No they are not. Apple would rather have a dedicated (albeit lesser powerful) GPU in their rather than a Intel integrated crap. See the 9400M video and how Apple taunted using nVidia chipset. Yes it was integrated Northbridge/GPU, but it was still much more powerful than Intel's then current offering, the GMA X3100. Not to mention, it is until now that Intel GPUs are catching up to the performance the 9400M or even the 9600M GT offered, 4 years ago....


Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeWozniak View Post
This doesn't seem fair to me. A GPU is actually a performance optimized CPU. Intel has been in the *PU business for a long time.

Maybe Apple should stay out of the cell phone business, or the map business, using that same logic.

This is good news actually that Intel is dedicated to helping the 5-10% market share of the Mac users. They admitted a problem and intend to fix it instead of just ignoring us.
Not sure if serious or trying to troll hard. Intel has always been a CPU manufacturer. That is how they started and that's how it is. Their core business is CPUs. Now, as per the GPU being just a CPU is inherently, borderline dumb. Why?

A CPU contains some arithmetic logic in their. However, the real graphical push is done by heavy geometric, arithmetic, and tessellation engines. Not to mention, each of these engines has multiple cores. Add to that that each GPU is pared with ROPs and Shadders.

More to the point, GPUs have exceptionally strong out of order engines to keep executing tasks. Something CPUs do not have. They could, but it'd be wasteful as the task of the CPU is not to draw a pretty picture.

Intel entered the business, yes. However, to keep in the business a company must truly deliver something consumers actually want. Intel didn't do that nor do they. Their GPU solutions have always been crap. See to the point the whole Vista capable and Vista ready debacle. All due to Intel integrated crap GPUs. No one wants that. However, the way Intel kept their GPU market was by sheer force and arm bending OEMs.

Not only that, they literally pushed nVidia out of the business of making chipsets. That's is one quick way to kill and stifle innovation on GPUs and chipsets.

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Originally Posted by StealthGhost View Post
So the Macbook Air, Macbook Pro 13 inch and Mac Mini wouldn't have any GPU lol? Apple can already put in an Nvidia or AMD GPU if they wish, they can turn off Intel's GPU or have it be switchable, they just don't because they want their cost to be low, not provide a powerful laptop.
Dude, the GPU in Intel's newest CPUs isn't able to be turned off. It is on by default, what you can do is ignore it completely and have it not interfere. However, space is the issue with 13" Macs. Apple is attracted to the whole "less chips and components is better" ideology. That is a good thing as it makes Macs and every thing electronic much cheaper and slimmer (and what not). The problem is, Apple wants to put that dedicated GPU. The problem is the real estate to do so is not there.

Can you find me a corner in any 13" Mac that can be used for a GPU? Take into consideration nVidia's GT 650M as a baseline for dimensions and size. Also note that GPUs require a bit more space than just the chip due to other components such as VRAM and MOSFETs.

Take all that in the current 13" and you'll see the only way to do that is sacrifice battery real estate. Something Apple is unwilling to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
Intel is the cause of the entire situation currently, and not just because they can't write decent GPU drivers. They also took legal action against NVidia producing their own chipsets for the Core series processors back at the tail end of 2009, bringing an end to the last decent integrated chipset/GPU for Macs--the 9400M. Now we're stuck with Intel's integrated GPU.

I really don't mind that they are producing the hardware, but the drivers are unacceptably buggy.
Thank you. Some one who actually uses his head.

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Originally Posted by majkom View Post
All Apples fault... no one force them to use only thos ****** intel gpus....mini 2012 only with intel piece of ****, thank you tim
Lol, I'll give you half true since in the end Apple was also arm bent to use Intel's crap.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:51 PM   #19
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I'd prefer the flickering to be addressed first.
At least you can work on your Mac. We who are still stuck on 10.8.1 until Apple deems us "worthy" enough to receive an update on a machine we paid handsomely for, can't use any of the productivity apps like iMovie, Aperture, iPhoto, iMessage, ...

/angry 13" rMBP owner
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:53 PM   #20
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Just sell it, work out the problems later. Maybe.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:54 PM   #21
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What keyboard is that in the pic?

Does any one know what's the keyboard in the pic? Looks cool.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jessica. View Post
I'd prefer the flickering to be addressed first.
I don't have such a problem, better fix 10.8.2 this affecting too many things
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:15 PM   #23
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yeah so what about the crappy picture quality over HDMI?

I'm glad that they have at least acknowledged the issue with flickering and black outs. I'm getting the problem 2-3 times a day and it's annoying.

The bigger issue I have is with the poor picture quality. Yes you can sort of address it by going through custom colorsync calibration but that's a kludge at best.

My dell 2440 looks terrible with out serious tweaking of the color profile and yet looks more than acceptable when connected to a PC.

PS: for those that think theirs is "fine" go to itunes or just view a list of files in finder. You should see alternating white and gray stripes. On my mini the "gray" stripes look like barely visible yellow smudges
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
Somehow that pic looks just wrong!

At least have the Apple KB and touch pad even if you use a cheaper LCD.

Good to know they are working on the issue, but really shouldn't this have been sorted by now?
That's a NEC brand LCD display. Hardly cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
I'm glad that they have at least acknowledged the issue with flickering and black outs. I'm getting the problem 2-3 times a day and it's annoying.

The bigger issue I have is with the poor picture quality. Yes you can sort of address it by going through custom colorsync calibration but that's a kludge at best.

My dell 2440 looks terrible with out serious tweaking of the color profile and yet looks more than acceptable when connected to a PC.

PS: for those that think theirs is "fine" go to itunes or just view a list of files in finder. You should see alternating white and gray stripes. On my mini the "gray" stripes look like barely visible yellow smudges
That's because you have a crappy display. The yellow smudges are color bleed. HDMI has enough bandwidth to support 4k resolutions so I highly doubt HDMI is causing this.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
I'm glad that they have at least acknowledged the issue with flickering and black outs. I'm getting the problem 2-3 times a day and it's annoying.

The bigger issue I have is with the poor picture quality. Yes you can sort of address it by going through custom colorsync calibration but that's a kludge at best.

My dell 2440 looks terrible with out serious tweaking of the color profile and yet looks more than acceptable when connected to a PC.

PS: for those that think theirs is "fine" go to itunes or just view a list of files in finder. You should see alternating white and gray stripes. On my mini the "gray" stripes look like barely visible yellow smudges
When I first hooked up my mini it looked much as you described. I went crazy trying to fix the settings on the mini until I found that the monitor somehow differentiated between HDMI and "PC" inputs.

I honestly don't understand the difference, but 1920x1080 from the mini looked about as bad as 720P until I fixed the monitor settings. I don't know if this will help you, but I had definitely found it unintuitive at the time.
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