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Old Dec 1, 2012, 03:25 PM   #1
Ticker
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Aperture 4

Any rumors aout Aperture 4 release? Tired of just updates to 3. I have become comfortable with Aperture and hate to learn the other "better" products. Have been waiting for a true upgrade. Heard Apple may not upgrade Aperture at all and may concentrate on iPhoto alone. Thats crazy since the graphics and digital media community always supported Apple while everyone was on the Windows bandwagon.
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Old Dec 2, 2012, 11:29 AM   #2
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What do you think "4" will be? It's just a version number.
Most of the wishes I see are for lens distortion correction and better noise reduction. Personally, I'm hoping for Apple to bring those to version 3.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 03:34 PM   #3
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What features do you want? No offense, but one of my pet peeves is people saying "We need a new version/system/product!" without saying why. Is there a specific problem you want fixed, a certain feature you want that Aperture 3 doesn't have, or just a change for the sake of change?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:10 AM   #4
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I'd be happy if Apple just fixed the crashing and the lack of true Flikr integration for updated albums. Yeah the initial album sharing is great, but add a photo to your album or project and the change does not go to Flikr unless you sync the entire album....which then creates a duplicate!!!

I know, amature needs but the crashing and syncing are annoying as heck.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:51 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by guzhogi View Post
What features do you want? No offense, but one of my pet peeves is people saying "We need a new version/system/product!" without saying why. Is there a specific problem you want fixed, a certain feature you want that Aperture 3 doesn't have, or just a change for the sake of change?
The image processing is the least important part.

The big thing is better integration with professional workflows.

There are exporters for various publishing tools, but we also need exporters for other destinations, including social media. (the current Facebook/Flickr integration is pretty horrible).

Normally a pro workflow would write a custom plugin for export, but guess what? The plugin API doesn't exist anymore in the developer site, and the previous export APIs don't even work in newer XCode!

There needs to be better metadata input and usability. I'd like to be able to catalog a whole series of fashion items based around price, color, style, etc..

I'd like to be able to publish a blog post directly from Aperture, for example, without having to go through the filesystem. This should be done in a custom export API plugin that connects directly to our own web CMS, the way it does for Getty/Flickr/etc..

Also right now the Aperture database can't be shared concurrently among multiple computers and users, which is bad in a newsroom with lots of photographers. How is an editor supposed to pick a photo among all the shots of the day, for example? Does every photographer have to edit his own photos and export them to the editor? Where does a retoucher/art director fit in the workflow? And so on..

Right now Aperture's workflow integration is in its infancy.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 10:07 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by mozumder View Post
The image processing is the least important part.

The big thing is better integration with professional workflows.

There are exporters for various publishing tools, but we also need exporters for other destinations, including social media. (the current Facebook/Flickr integration is pretty horrible).

Normally a pro workflow would write a custom plugin for export, but guess what? The plugin API doesn't exist anymore in the developer site, and the previous export APIs don't even work in newer XCode!

There needs to be better metadata input and usability. I'd like to be able to catalog a whole series of fashion items based around price, color, style, etc..

I'd like to be able to publish a blog post directly from Aperture, for example, without having to go through the filesystem. This should be done in a custom export API plugin that connects directly to our own web CMS, the way it does for Getty/Flickr/etc..

Also right now the Aperture database can't be shared concurrently among multiple computers and users, which is bad in a newsroom with lots of photographers. How is an editor supposed to pick a photo among all the shots of the day, for example? Does every photographer have to edit his own photos and export them to the editor? Where does a retoucher/art director fit in the workflow? And so on..

Right now Aperture's workflow integration is in its infancy.
Okay, thanks for the info. It just bothers me when people say they want/need something new/different but specifically what or why. Maybe I'm a little OCD or something.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 03:01 AM   #7
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I'm pretty happy with the way Aperture is now. A few more social media upload controls would be nice, but it's not that important to me.

My biggest fear is when then update to Aperture 4 I'll have to invest in all new and upgrade Plug-ins! They aren't bloody cheap!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mozumder View Post
The image processing is the least important part.

The big thing is better integration with professional workflows.

There are exporters for various publishing tools, but we also need exporters for other destinations, including social media. (the current Facebook/Flickr integration is pretty horrible).

Normally a pro workflow would write a custom plugin for export, but guess what? The plugin API doesn't exist anymore in the developer site, and the previous export APIs don't even work in newer XCode!

There needs to be better metadata input and usability. I'd like to be able to catalog a whole series of fashion items based around price, color, style, etc..

I'd like to be able to publish a blog post directly from Aperture, for example, without having to go through the filesystem. This should be done in a custom export API plugin that connects directly to our own web CMS, the way it does for Getty/Flickr/etc..

Also right now the Aperture database can't be shared concurrently among multiple computers and users, which is bad in a newsroom with lots of photographers. How is an editor supposed to pick a photo among all the shots of the day, for example? Does every photographer have to edit his own photos and export them to the editor? Where does a retoucher/art director fit in the workflow? And so on..

Right now Aperture's workflow integration is in its infancy.
+1 for this. I'm of the same opinion. There is a lot missing in Aperture when it comes to workflow. This is Apple's Pro Photography app. Where's iOS integration? True integration. Here we have this amazing portable device with a beautiful screen but using it with our photos is nearly impossible.

I want to see a companion app made available that links Aperture 4 with iOS devices. Let me import my photos into Aperture and then open Aperture on iPad and be able to review my shots, pick my selects and add star ratings. Have those changes reflect on the Aperture library.

In another scenario, let me import my previews off a CF or SD card in the field directly into the iPad, again pick selects and star ratings then when back at the studio, allow me to import the RAW images into Aperture 4 and sync up the changes made to the previews on the iPad.

Yet another big missing feature: hardware integration. Video and Audio professionals are able to use editing tables with knobs and slider buttons to edit their work. Photographers cannot do this. We're stuck to virtual HUDs on the screen. At least Lightroom offers a way to do this though it doesn't explicitly support it.

Aperture has reached a maturity level in performance. It's fast and works as expected. It now needs to improve (a lot) on workflow.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ipedro View Post
+1 for this. I'm of the same opinion. There is a lot missing in Aperture when it comes to workflow. This is Apple's Pro Photography app. Where's iOS integration? True integration. Here we have this amazing portable device with a beautiful screen but using it with our photos is nearly impossible.

I want to see a companion app made available that links Aperture 4 with iOS devices. Let me import my photos into Aperture and then open Aperture on iPad and be able to review my shots, pick my selects and add star ratings. Have those changes reflect on the Aperture library.

In another scenario, let me import my previews off a CF or SD card in the field directly into the iPad, again pick selects and star ratings then when back at the studio, allow me to import the RAW images into Aperture 4 and sync up the changes made to the previews on the iPad.

Yet another big missing feature: hardware integration. Video and Audio professionals are able to use editing tables with knobs and slider buttons to edit their work. Photographers cannot do this. We're stuck to virtual HUDs on the screen. At least Lightroom offers a way to do this though it doesn't explicitly support it.

Aperture has reached a maturity level in performance. It's fast and works as expected. It now needs to improve (a lot) on workflow.


Regarding iOS integration. I suggest you investigate Photo Stream. It's killer...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by guzhogi View Post
What features do you want? No offense, but one of my pet peeves is people saying "We need a new version/system/product!" without saying why. Is there a specific problem you want fixed, a certain feature you want that Aperture 3 doesn't have, or just a change for the sake of change?
-Real, meaningful support for raw formats on newer standards (Please, please, please add support for the X-Pro1/X-E1's X-Trans sensor as it has amazing RAW recovery)
-Like Adobe work with individual manufacturers to get solid 'out of the box' raw conversion
-Built-in support for correcting lens distortion (including automated pre-sets)
-Native HDR support (Really, Apple?)
-Panoramic "stitching" functions
-Provide more fine-tuned controls for "edge detection" brushes
-Better Noise Reduction (compared to every plugin on the market Aperture "scrubs" too hard)
-Film grain emulation (as a "prosumer" product, I'm pretty surprised this was never added)
-Additional post-processing functionality when exporting to the web (e.g add sharpening)
-Significantly decrease processing time (See LR4)
-Beef up highlight and shadow recovery (See LR4)
-Add "Clarity"-like filter (See LR4)
-Add meaningful video support (See LR4)
-Don't change workflow because IMHO, it's the only thing keeping me from jumping ship.

I could keep going but honestly, that's what I got off the cuff. We have nothing to show from Apple in the last two years in terms of significant upgrades. Aperture used to be the program that kept Adobe execs awake at night and was truly a disruptive piece of technology. LR4 in almost every way is now superior since Apple has left Aperture to languish.

In general, the majority of Aperture folks are looking for something that offers at least parity with LR4.3. I think that's all we can expect from Apple at this point. It's sad when the guy who has written THE BOOK on Aperture is looking to jump ship...

I'm not ready yet, but if I don't see anything from Apple in 2013 I am moving on with a heavy heart. The last three cameras I've had Apple never even added native RAW support for...

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I would be very happy when Apple would upgrade the UI of Aperture.
I mean, that grey depressive UI Aperture has isn't very beautiful. Do you guys?
It's neutral on purpose so that photographers can focus on making their photos beautiful.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 05:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by guzhogi View Post
What features do you want? No offense, but one of my pet peeves is people saying "We need a new version/system/product!" without saying why. Is there a specific problem you want fixed, a certain feature you want that Aperture 3 doesn't have, or just a change for the sake of change?
Okay... Here goes.
(And these may not be relevant for aperture 4, but maybe for v. 6)

The thing is, that many photographers and some ex-photographers (I include myself in this category) are feeling an immense pain with the whole step of post-production. Compared to the days of film, we take 10 times more frames and the workload of prost-processing a photo-shoot are becoming hideously arduous.

I specifically remember a wedding gig I had some years ago (the circumstances were challenging), which I'll use as example:
1 hr - discussions with bride and fiancée
1,5 hr - scouting the place, seeking the angles
1,25 hr - actual shooting
1,5 hr - image selection
29 hr - post processing (aperture and PS)

I admit it's an extreme example, but I regularly had to use 3 to 4 times the time on PP than on all other gig-related activities.

To be quite frank, a central reason for me to stop doing gigs was the amount of time spent on (basically) unbillable PP. I've even stopped shooting RAW.

So what would I (have) really needed?
1) A all-in-one software. Lightroom has PS around the corner, and in Aperture I regularly have to go into PS to do some final touch-ups (especially regarding "unwanted artefacts"). Apple should/could aim for a one-stop solution.
2) A "smart" solution. Say you import a gig into Aperture, aperture would start identifying the different settings (different lighting, different faces) and use some time to analyze the material and different subsections. With face recognition aperture could also suggest some automatic discards (lemons), shots with blur or OOF-problems. The remaining shots would then get a number (selectable) of automated settings (user-defined or automatic) treatments (preview-level), while at the same time trying to enhance the pictures, trying to keep the overall look&feel of the shoot in line with each other. Most of the processing here should be done in background.

I guess what I', trying to say is that I'd really appreciate a workflow, which would be based on:
1# import
2# automatic preselection
3# automatic application of settings
4# user selection of desired preset-set
5# user selection of images and touch-ups (in software)
6# export(s)

IMHO, the amount of time a photographer should spend actively tweaking an average image is no more than 20s. The computer could do a lot of the work for the photographer, but current software does not cater to this.

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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by seveej View Post
I specifically remember a wedding gig I had some years ago (the circumstances were challenging), which I'll use as example:
1 hr - discussions with bride and fiancée
1,5 hr - scouting the place, seeking the angles
1,25 hr - actual shooting
1,5 hr - image selection
29 hr - post processing (aperture and PS)
Sorry for being a little off topic, but if I ever get into photography seriously, I don't ever want to do a wedding gig. I just don't want to deal with bridezillas and risk messing up. Nothing like messing up a girl's (arguably) most important day in her life. Besides, I'm just too shy to go around taking pictures of people I don't know.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:27 PM   #13
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Sorry for being a little off topic, but if I ever get into photography seriously, I don't ever want to do a wedding gig. I just don't want to deal with bridezillas and risk messing up. Nothing like messing up a girl's (arguably) most important day in her life. Besides, I'm just too shy to go around taking pictures of people I don't know.
I hear you! Was not my specialty either, but I had to fill in for a friend (whom I often cooperated with), who had taken a gig to shoot some skydivers and ended up with his rear-end in a cast.

Nevertheless, I have real respect for wedding photo pro's. For most people shooting weddings, it's about feeding the kids (how many other times does the regular Joanne ever need a photo pro?).

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Old Dec 8, 2012, 07:15 PM   #14
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What do you think "4" will be? It's just a version number.
Most of the wishes I see are for lens distortion correction and better noise reduction. Personally, I'm hoping for Apple to bring those to version 3.
I'd like those too.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:14 PM   #15
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The version number isn't significant, except for people pointing at Lightroom saying they're ahead in versions. What is important is adding things like the aforementioned lens correction and noise reduction. Other things in Lightroom 4 would be similarly desirable, like gradient filters / masks. Performance / resource usage are other areas that need work, and something that could warrant the v4 label.
The recent emphasis by Apple in their keynote and Macbook Pro ads on Aperture and emphasis as a Pro app gives me hope, along with the rumours of job ads for IOS developers for Aperture. Just as OSX was delayed when IOS was developed, Aperture 4 may be delayed by diverted resources to an iPad version of Aperture.
I choose to be patient and keep hope alive that major improvements are coming. Having given Lightroom 4 a good go and maintaining some projects on it still, I can say I just prefer Aperture given a choice; I enjoy it more, and feel more productive.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 10:45 AM   #16
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My only complaints don't warrant a new version, only an update. The Flickr upload button should have a setting in Preferences. I have to change it from the default Set to Photostream every time I post a pic. The Crop tool is buggy too. I have to click and drag several times to get it to work. This should have been fixed eons ago.

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Old Dec 17, 2012, 02:14 PM   #17
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Rather than features I'm kinda concerned about speed and compatibility.

I don't think Apple would abandon Aperture, but I'm not sure. They're so opaque. It's easier to see the progression with LR. And then there's cost: both applications cost about the same over the same period of time. But Aperture would be a better deal if it gets upgraded and you don't have to buy a new version. Hard to say.

If they had an iPad version I'd be much more convinced of its continued viability.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by msandersen View Post
The version number isn't significant, except for people pointing at Lightroom saying they're ahead in versions. What is important is adding things like the aforementioned lens correction and noise reduction. Other things in Lightroom 4 would be similarly desirable, like gradient filters / masks. Performance / resource usage are other areas that need work, and something that could warrant the v4 label.
The recent emphasis by Apple in their keynote and Macbook Pro ads on Aperture and emphasis as a Pro app gives me hope, along with the rumours of job ads for IOS developers for Aperture. Just as OSX was delayed when IOS was developed, Aperture 4 may be delayed by diverted resources to an iPad version of Aperture.
I choose to be patient and keep hope alive that major improvements are coming. Having given Lightroom 4 a good go and maintaining some projects on it still, I can say I just prefer Aperture given a choice; I enjoy it more, and feel more productive.
Why are people comparing Apeture to Lightroom? If you think it's better, use it. Apeture doesn't have to keep up with anyone. It's a good program. Yes, it need better integration with Flickr. Smugmug would be nice too but Facebook? Other social sites? I don't see Apeture as a program for the casual editor. iPhoto is that. Apeture is, IMHO, an intermediate program between iPhoto and CS.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:37 AM   #19
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Why are people comparing Apeture to Lightroom? If you think it's better, use it. Apeture doesn't have to keep up with anyone. It's a good program. Yes, it need better integration with Flickr. Smugmug would be nice too but Facebook? Other social sites? I don't see Apeture as a program for the casual editor. iPhoto is that. Apeture is, IMHO, an intermediate program between iPhoto and CS.
In fact Aperture does have to keep up with its processing engine, which is at the moment rudimentary when compared to others.
Remember, it's not the features that matter, it's the final image which counts.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 01:40 AM   #20
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Why are people comparing Apeture to Lightroom? If you think it's better, use it. Apeture doesn't have to keep up with anyone. It's a good program.
Yes, it's a good program, but it's falling behind and will be obsolete and irrelevant if Apple doesn't do something to keep it tracking with state of the art tools. If you like it, you should wish it to improve too.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:31 AM   #21
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Faces

As a great organizer Aperture already is, I would like Faces to be able to be grouped in categories and subcategories like "Family", "Friends", "Work", etc. ...of course each photo could belong to different categories.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:24 PM   #22
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I wish Apple had acquired NIK (instead of Google) and integrated their plugins into Aperture as core capabilities. Their dfine (noise reduction), viveza (selective control point editing), and silverfx (b&w) tools are better than anything else I've ever seen. Once you use Viveza, you realize the folly of applying an adjustment to the whole image. Rarely, if ever, is that a good way to adjust photos.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:04 PM   #23
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NO to lens correction!

I hope they don't waste their time on lens correction. That is probably the least useful post-processing tool, something no one will ever notice.

Aperture is a professional product. It's more important for Apple to integrate workflow improvements, especially for newsrooms/publishers.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:24 PM   #24
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I hope they don't waste their time on lens correction. That is probably the least useful post-processing tool, something no one will ever notice.
Let me help you with that:

I hope they don't waste their time on lens correction. In my opinion, that is probably the least possible post-processing tool, something I have never needed.

Photography is a diverse field of work and certainly not everyone needs every check-mark ticked, but to pretend that everyone uses your kit to do the kind of photography you do, and using the same workflow you do misses how rich the field of prosumer/professional photography is.

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I wish Apple had acquired NIK (instead of Google) and integrated their plugins into Aperture as core capabilities. Their dfine (noise reduction), viveza (selective control point editing), and silverfx (b&w) tools are better than anything else I've ever seen. Once you use Viveza, you realize the folly of applying an adjustment to the whole image. Rarely, if ever, is that a good way to adjust photos.
Amen. I am as concerned about Aperture's uncertain future as I am with the Nik plugins I have come to rely on to fill the gaps in Aperture.

Last edited by Yujenisis; Dec 21, 2012 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:21 PM   #25
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I'm about done with Aperture, worked on some photos last week and with basic editing such as clone out a few specs and such, applied some white balance corrections and used Topaz in the mix Aperture decided not to save the work. Did everything possible to fix things and it again happened. I don't like the auto save, just give me the save function back, I'll do it myself and that just works, really simple, laughs. I also tried everything the same and not including the Topaz plug-in and the same thing happened, more so when zooming in and out this seems worse and Aperture quit half a dozen times. Things really started to slow down after 10-12 photos which were also jpeg, not RAW so not sure what that was all about. But the point it performance and it being stable for the most part.

I agree with VirtualRain about buying NIK, they buy way more companies that offer less (my opinion there). I also have become crabby with Apertures printing qualities, waiting for corrections to apply (my plug-ins are instant, not Aperture) and printing/layout/setup. I will wait until the holidays are over then dive into LR and see what it has to offer.

I could care less about better FB integration but that's just me, I don't hear, read many people asking PS to have this added so either do it right or dump it and move on.

Wants, layers could be added, create a small set of your own brushes and saving some custom settings that one uses the most. Sorry but if a program like SketchBookPro can have some of this and it is really affordable then there is a good possibility a photo organizational program can have a few of those things and do them very well without a huge cost increase. I know Aperture has some great features that you can apply if you use the WB, sharpen and so on all the time but a small custom selection would be great. If this can already be done then please correct me and show me the way so I can apply these
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