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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:03 PM   #1
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Microsoft and Apple Facing Off Over Office for iOS Subscription Revenues, Not SkyDrive




AllThingsD is reporting that contrary to earlier reports that Apple and Microsoft were arguing over a 30% cut of storage upgrade sales through Microsoft's SkyDrive cloud storage utility, instead the companies are negotiating over revenue Microsoft would bring in as part of its Office 365 subscription service.
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Office has long been a cash cow for Microsoft and extending the platform to iOS will undoubtedly fatten it further. It will also bring significant benefits to Apple's mobile platform, ones for which Microsoft feels it is owed a discount on that 30 percent cut that Apple would otherwise command on Office 365 subscriptions sold to iOS users through it. The apps are just part of a subscription that includes desktop access.

So the company has been pushing Apple to adjust the 70/30 revenue split in its developer license agreement. Predictably, Apple has refused to comply. It's not yet clear what sort of concession Microsoft is seeking, but whatever it is, Apple's evidently not willing to consider it. Indeed, I'm told it's taken a "the rules are the rules" stance, which would suggest it's not at all willing to negotiate a different split. Apple's position: If a customer comes through its gateway, it feels it is deserved the commission outlined in 11.12 of its developer license.
Apple, for its part, says that App Store rules are fair and are applied equally to all developers, big and small.

Office for iOS has been rumored several times over the past year, but now seems closer to fruition than ever -- if Apple and Microsoft can come to some agreement. Yesterday, Microsoft leaked references to 'Office Mobile for iPhone', 'Excel for iPad', and 'PowerPoint for iPad'.

Article Link: Microsoft and Apple Facing Off Over Office for iOS Subscription Revenues, Not SkyDrive
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:04 PM   #2
damir00
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Just sell it for $10 an OfficeApp and be done with it...
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:05 PM   #3
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i want imcrosoft one note for mac, is it coming out yet??
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:22 PM   #4
raremage
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Originally Posted by Chuck-Norris View Post
i want imcrosoft one note for mac, is it coming out yet??
It's out for iOS, but not for Mac. At least, as far as I know.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 07:27 PM   #5
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by Chuck-Norris View Post
i want imcrosoft one note for mac, is it coming out yet??
Oh please, Evernote kicks the crap out of One Note, especially since it's very Mac/iOS centric and is syncs everything from the cloud free of charge. Funny, Microsoft knows how to make their customers feel that nothing is better than what they offer in software when it simply is far from the truth. Never missed One Note, never will.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:00 PM   #6
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Oh please, Evernote kicks the crap out of One Note,
Explain? Evernote doesn't even have the basic features that set Onenote apart - a free flowing canvas that actually works like a real note. That's a huge benefit if you actually want to do something that you can't do better in Word or Pages. Evernote has terrible layout and drawing capabilities and those are often necessary for brainstorming and note taking.

Evernote just creates really basic linear documents, and manages them with a TOC. Some of the word processing apps actually create better notes. The only thing great about Evernote was cloud syncing and great multiplatform support, but that's no longer the case.

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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
especially since it's very Mac/iOS centric
What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
and is syncs everything from the cloud free of charge.
Onenote also does this since version 2010, and it's free of charge. In addition it can sync over private networks and just to the local machine free of charge.

File - New - Store Notebook On: Web.

or

File - New - Web Location:
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:24 AM   #7
HenryDJP
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Explain? Evernote doesn't even have the basic features that set Onenote apart - a free flowing canvas that actually works like a real note.
That's a huge benefit if you actually want to do something that you can't do better in Word or Pages.
That's a subjective benefit to some. Not everyone desires that.

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Originally Posted by esmode View Post

Evernote has terrible layout and drawing capabilities and those are often necessary for brainstorming and note taking.
Again, that subjective. Not everyone shares your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esmode View Post
Evernote just creates really basic linear documents, and manages them with a TOC. Some of the word processing apps actually create better notes. The only thing great about Evernote was cloud syncing and great multiplatform support, but that's no longer the case.
That might be all most people need, after all it's just a note-taking application. It's not a source for world peace.

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What does that mean?
Not a port, designed from the ground up.

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Originally Posted by esmode View Post
Onenote also does this since version 2010, and it's free of charge. In addition it can sync over private networks and just to the local machine free of charge.

File - New - Store Notebook On: Web.

or

File - New - Web Location:
Yep and all of that works with Microsoft's OS and software with an extension to iOS.
Just because you like One Note on Windows doesn't mean it will be just as good of an experience on the Mac. As history shows, Microsoft hasn't been too keen on creating the best software on Mac.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Chuck-Norris View Post
i want imcrosoft one note for mac, is it coming out yet??
As a heavy OneNote user at work, I gave up waiting for a mac version and went for Evernote. Doesn't integrate quite as tightly with Office:mac 2011 as OneNote does on the Office for Windows side but is otherwise quite superb. The Evernote iOS client comfortably eclipses Onenote iOS. I've been using the Office 2013 preview in a virtual for a while and it's nice, esp the Skydrive integration - much improved over 2010, and the same applies to OneNote 2013 too. No mention of OneNote for mac still, even under the Office 365 stuff being proposed for Office 2013. Oh well, Evernote it is then. Microsoft's loss.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:05 PM   #9
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Guess this is why Microsoft want so desperately into the hardware side
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:07 PM   #10
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Well now.....that just started to make a whole lot more sense.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:08 PM   #11
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Microsoft is dead.






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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:59 PM   #12
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Microsoft is dead.






Yeah, not like ~85% of all desktop computers (home and office) are Windows...
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:08 PM   #13
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It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:12 PM   #14
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It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.
Well said. If Apple gave Microsoft a special deal, the developer backlash would pale in comparison to whatever Microsoft can dish out with these intentional leaks to the blogosphere.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 06:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by basesloaded190 View Post
It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.
There is one developer playing by a different set of rules...

Apple receives 100% of the revenues for Pages, Keynote, Numbers, Garage Band, iPhoto, etc...

Having said that, I back Apple here. I also back Microsoft on the idea of decreasing Apple's cut - I'd really like to have a bigger cut, too.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 10:41 PM   #16
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It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.
Not true. Bigger clients always get discounts - how else does Walmart gives you insane prices? They get discounts from all consumer goods companies.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 04:32 PM   #17
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It's a slippery slope if you let one developer in with different rules than what the rest are playing by.
The problem is that 1/3 of your revenue is a lot to ask just to host a an app on what is basically a monopoly app store (as in no other stores need apply short of having to jailbreak your devices to do it). I've said this all along. Apple doesn't get 1/3 of the desktop M$ Office (nor should they). I don't know why developers are so willing to give the largest corporation in the entire world an entire third of their revenue. People whine and cry about the idea of the highest tax bracket going up a few percentage points (ironically still less than what Apple is asking), but it's A-OK to hand over 1/3 your revenue to Apple because they do SO much for you.

I don't blame Microsoft for thinking the "Apple Tax" is too high. I blame Apple and other developers for thinking it's a fair deal. If there were other app stores, I'd say fine. But zero competition = charge whatever you want and that's not a good deal for consumers or developers alike.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:09 PM   #18
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I had a feeling something was Office related earlier.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:11 PM   #19
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Microsoft should go to Cydia with it... :P

And start jailbreaking phones at the microsoft store...
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:20 PM   #20
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Hmmm... I know that a link to a subscription service outside of Apple's subscription is forbidden, but what about simply a line that says "Tap here to subscribe to [whatever the office service is called] OR go online and save 30% off the subscription price!"

I understand that Apple is just being consistent here, but really, I think this whole subscription thing was asking too much and its been hurting the consumer most of all. When you build an app and you get apple to market it/sell it for you, then fine, apple can take a 30% cut. But, if your app is merely a gateway for other content, then apple shouldn't have its hands in it.

True, this is a bad example- this is Microsoft being sneaky, realizing it can't charge the high prices it usually does for office for an iOS app (competition pricing is much lower) and trying to make it a "service" to get more revenue via subscription payments. But, in other cases, like for say Amazon or Spotify, Apple is interjecting itself to take the money. If companies are more than willing to sell their own subscriptions and offer a free app as a gateway, then why should apple get a cut?

Really, what I'm saying is, Apple, give up on this subscription thing. I don't have any hard data, but it sounds to me like all its succeeded in doing is making it more difficult for app builders (making marketing their product harder unless they want to cough up 30%) and consumers (making them find their way on their own to make subscriptions when most developers won't pay the 30%). How many developers are really just giving in and forking over 30%?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:29 PM   #21
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If companies are more than willing to sell their own subscriptions and offer a free app as a gateway, then why should apple get a cut?
apple doesnt have to get a cut, if you remove all links and tap-thrus to alternative ways to enroll in the commercial service. thats apple's requirement.

see HBO-Go -- HBO's content. apple's store. apple doesnt get paid a portion because you paid for the content to HBO directly, and HBO doesnt solicit enrollment in the app itself.

Last edited by mdelvecchio; Dec 11, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:44 PM   #22
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Hmmm... I know that a link to a subscription service outside of Apple's subscription is forbidden, but what about simply a line that says "Tap here to subscribe to [whatever the office service is called] OR go online and save 30% off the subscription price!"
You can't do that.

You CAN do this:
"Tap here to subscribe to [whatever the office service is called] OR go online and subscribe!"

without giving a URL.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:54 PM   #23
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OR go online and save 30% off the subscription price!"
Of course, it would save about the consumer about 23%, not 30%.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:18 PM   #24
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Apple acts the bigger man and Microsoft acts like a child
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 03:24 PM   #25
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This only highlights how stupid it is to force developers to use in-app subscriptions as a subscription shouldn't just be for the iOS version of an app, and if it isn't then Apple shouldn't be able to get a 30% cut of the non-iOS portion.


Apple's current system is fine for simpler set-ups where an iOS app simply requires a recurring cost to keep using it, but for more complex setups a different system is sorely needed. At the very least the system should only take Apple's cut when the payment is done through an iOS device; if the user decides to renew their subscription online on their Mac instead then that should go via whatever system is in place to enable that.

It's not as if this would cripple Apple's income, as tons of users will prefer the convenience of doing it through their iOS device; and that's exactly what Apple's cut is supposed to be for.
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