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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:47 PM   #1
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Apple Fined Another $260,000 By Italian Regulators Over AppleCare Practices




Italy fined Apple $1.2 million in late 2011, after its Competition and Market Authority found that Apple was not providing customers with sufficient information about the two years of free product warranty that is required under Italian law.

Instead, Apple was pushing the sale of AppleCare, which overlaps with the inherent Italian product warranty. After being fined and losing an appeal, Apple added disclosures to its Italian online store, but authorities were not satisfied and considered additional fines and even a potential ban on Apple products in the country.

Apple today was fined another $264,000 by Italian regulators (via setteB.IT) after not fully complying with the Consumer Code set place in 2012, from March 28 to November 10.

Authorities have released a statement detailing Apple's exact violations.
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From March 2012 onward, the above measures continued to trigger additional requests for intervention that reported the repetition of the unfair commercial practices. In specific, consumers complained that they were meeting with difficulties when seeking to apply the legal guarantee and were encountering incorrect procedures in the promotion of the App.
Though Italy levied another fine against Apple, regulators have since determined that after sufficient modification, Apple's website is no longer confusing for Italian customers. The changes went into full effect on November 10, and Apple also ceased selling its AppleCare products in Italian stores.

Apple may have settled its differences with Italian regulators, but it is still facing potential fines from other European countries, which also have a two-year warranty rule. In October, European Union officials called on member states to scrutinize Apple's warranty advertising practices, stating that the Cupertino-based company may not be adequately informing EU customers of the extra warranty.

Article Link: Apple Fined Another $260,000 By Italian Regulators Over AppleCare Practices
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:52 PM   #2
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2 year warranties and universal health care... Yep, the US is doing really good taking care their own.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:54 PM   #3
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:57 PM   #4
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Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
Apple claimed there was only one year of warranty if you didn't get Applecare, which of course was completely wrong.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Apple claimed there was only one year of warranty if you didn't get Applecare, which of course was completely wrong.
Nope it is not, since second year is only if:
-The problem is not because product is used, it must be born with this problem.
-You can have the second year only if you bought it as private
-You need to bring your invoce/bill
-You have second year only where you bought it

Apple had always did that, italian are just retarded and yes i'm italian too (sadly).
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
The problem is their graphics online, they market as only having a 1 year warranty when in fact they are required by law to have a 2 year warranty. Just look at their AppleCare page on their European sites.

This goes more to Apple following the EU's rules than the EU educating the public of the law.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:03 PM   #8
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Uh, they are already covering that fine by selling 16GB iPhones 5 at 739€ ($973) over here.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by TheIguana View Post
The problem is their graphics online, they market as only having a 1 year warranty when in fact they are required by law to have a 2 year warranty. Just look at their AppleCare page on their European sites.
It's correct. It comes with a 2 year warranty, but a 1 year "Apple Limited Warranty".

The two are very different things - the EU warranty is similar to the warranty provided by the Sale of Goods Act in the UK - we're covered for 6 years, but you try claiming anything after 6 months - it's near on impossible, takes ages, and requires you to "prove" there was an inherent fault.

That's the key different - Apple's warranty (1 year) provides cover for all faults that develop - the EU warranty provides coverage for 2 years for faults that were present at the time of purchase. I think the italian regulator just needed some $$$.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by TheIguana View Post
The problem is their graphics online, they market as only having a 1 year warranty when in fact they are required by law to have a 2 year warranty. Just look at their AppleCare page on their European sites.

This goes more to Apple following the EU's rules than the EU educating the public of the law.
It's confusing. On that same page you reference, they link to this page:

http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

It's odd that AppleCare in EU would very blatantly be less (one year vs. two years) than consumer law. So which is it?

The one distinction they make is that the two-year warranty is for defects present when consumers take possession of a purchase, whereas AppleCare's one-year warranty applies to defects after the consumer takes possession. How they determine which applies is still a question. Why would a consumer knowingly purchase a defective product?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:48 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TheIguana View Post

This goes more to Apple following the EU's rules than the EU educating the public of the law.
Apple appears to feel that they are above the law.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street) Apple store when buying my last mac from there. He was adamant that I would only be covered for a year without Applecare, and refused to acknowledge that there is a 2 year warranty as per EU law.

Apple dont want to acknowledge it as they make a crap load of money from warranties - everywhere does this.

Heck if you search around the forums, you'll see more than a few cases where someone in the EU has had a warranty repair refused in the 2nd year for not having Applecare.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street) Apple store when buying my last mac from there. He was adamant that I would only be covered for a year without Applecare, and refused to acknowledge that there is a 2 year warranty as per EU law.

Apple dont want to acknowledge it as they make a crap load of money from warranties - everywhere does this.

Heck if you search around the forums, you'll see more than a few cases where someone in the EU has had a warranty repair refused in the 2nd year for not having Applecare.
Actually, in the UK we don't have a 2 year warranty - we have a 6 year one - since the Sale of Goods Act provides better terms than the EU directive.

However, if you wanted to claim in year 2 (or any time after 6 months), you'd need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was a not fit-for-purpose fault at the time of purchase - which would need to be done, usually, through an independent report. Say your hard drive failed after 2 years - no expert is going to write a report saying that it was an inherent fault, when they don't know whether that's been dropped or what have you.

There's so much misinformation spread around in general about what you're entitled to, or moreover, what's needed to make a claim under these implied warranties. Using these directives/laws isn't as easy as calling Apple and saying "it's broke - fix it" - which is exactly what you get with Apple's own warranties.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street) Apple store when buying my last mac from there. He was adamant that I would only be covered for a year without Applecare, and refused to acknowledge that there is a 2 year warranty as per EU law.

Apple dont want to acknowledge it as they make a crap load of money from warranties - everywhere does this.

Heck if you search around the forums, you'll see more than a few cases where someone in the EU has had a warranty repair refused in the 2nd year for not having Applecare.
And that is correct. The 2year European Waranty is crap and not worth anything. The law gives you 6month, six month that are garanteed. After that, the next 18month, YOU have to prove that the fault was there at the day of purchase. Good luck. First question is, why did you wait 6 month to make a claim?
That got absolutely nothing to do with the Apple warranty or Apple care. Apple already gives a full year full warranty, not at all normal in Europe as everybody refers to the "2 year European law" but that is just BS. Try to get ANYTHING repaired after 6 month.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpat View Post
I love it when fanboys bash an entire country for enforcing a law that's beneficial to customers.
No, it is not. Quite the opposite. You THINK you get two years warranty under European or Italian law, you do not. You DO get one year with Apple, or three years with Apple care. You get 6 month with Europe, after that 18month of hassle.
If Apple would really implement that law, it would be quite bad for costumers as they would loose half a year no care warranty.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:38 PM   #15
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I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street)
You are so privileged to argue with an Apple store employee. Here one can get tasered for that.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:50 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
I had an argument with an employee in the London (Oxford Street) Apple store when buying my last mac from there. He was adamant that I would only be covered for a year without Applecare, and refused to acknowledge that there is a 2 year warranty as per EU law.
The Apple sales assistant was totally correct.

You totally misunderstand all of this.

It is not an EU law, but a Directive. A Directive is between the EU and governments, not between you and the retailer.

Sales of Goods Act is between you and the retailer, and it is not a guarantee in any way, it basically keeps a binding contract with you and the retailer for 6 years, if a fault occurs they must fix it but not always for free. Apple offer repair for free for the first 1 year for any fault, which is above and beyond SOGA already, and you can make this 3 years with Apple Care.

A product under SOGA however must be "durable", this is where SOGA becomes a grey area. A 1,500 MacBook should last longer than one year, perhaps 2, or 3. If it was to break down after 3 years and you went to the small claims court and stated Apple MacBooks are premium products, you believe should last longer than 3 years, you used the product in a normal manner, then you may win the case. If it was a 20 pair of Apple earbuds you probably wont win. If the MacBook was 5 years old, your chances of winning may be as low as the earbuds.

Last edited by SimonTheSoundMa; Dec 22, 2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:20 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
Gotta rebuild the Italian economy somehow.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
I live in the UK and I don't think any shops tell you anything about your rights.
Quite the opposite in fact, they lie to customers faces about the warranty.

The shop staff are on BIG commisions to sell extended warranties on ad many products as they can and they never want to tell you something it covered for longer than the old year.

Apple don't have a leg to stand on even after 1 year, 18 months of probably a couple of years or more in the UK as they sell a "Premium" product and it would be "Expected" to last a good length of time, even 3 or 4 years, if you bought a high end iMac I think they would be forced to fix if for free.

But would they ever tell the typical consumer that in a UK Apple store. Of course not, that's the last thing they want to tell customers.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:01 PM   #19
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Germany is much similar. However the great thing about education is they teach you to read, and hopefully think to understand this.

I for one think a company with profits well in the billions should be obligated to follow the laws that are set force in the market they agree to sell in.

Good job!

Its got frick all to do with socialism and everything to do with accountability!





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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
I live in the UK and I don't think any shops tell you anything about your rights.
Quite the opposite in fact, they lie to customers faces about the warranty.

The shop staff are on BIG commisions to sell extended warranties on ad many products as they can and they never want to tell you something it covered for longer than the old year.

Apple don't have a leg to stand on even after 1 year, 18 months of probably a couple of years or more in the UK as they sell a "Premium" product and it would be "Expected" to last a good length of time, even 3 or 4 years, if you bought a high end iMac I think they would be forced to fix if for free.

But would they ever tell the typical consumer that in a UK Apple store. Of course not, that's the last thing they want to tell customers.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:57 PM   #20
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Apple don't have a leg to stand on even after 1 year, 18 months of probably a couple of years or more in the UK as they sell a "Premium" product and it would be "Expected" to last a good length of time, even 3 or 4 years, if you bought a high end iMac I think they would be forced to fix if for free.
That's right - it's not about whether a product develops a fault or was shipped with a fault - it's whether it could reasonably expect to last for considerably longer than a year, which is obviously the case. The critical point is:

"So, you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did."

See: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...t/your-rights/

I wouldn't bother if it was just a hard drive but I would certainly try if the motherboard or screen failed at up to three to four years.

I'm in the UK too and have twice insisted on Bose replacing a pair of expensive headphones well after the 'warranty' (a replacement pair also failed). The Sale of Goods Act is powerful if you insist on your rights.

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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
For some people, it's a case of apple never do wrong isn't it?

As the poster below said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Apple claimed there was only one year of warranty if you didn't get Applecare, which of course was completely wrong.
Clearly in this case, APPLE IS WRONG, and therefore deserves that fine.

Wish people would stop defending apple no matter what they do. It's so blinkered and biased. I really like apple, but it doesn't mean they're always right.

.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
Well said, especially from the land that puts legal warnings on everything!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:08 AM   #23
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Well said, especially from the land that puts legal warnings on everything!
but wont put ingrediants on food stuffs, because it might hurt profits
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:34 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
Oh for the love of GOD. Can't the EU inform their OWN citizen about such a major law? Instead they have their hands out because Apple isn't doing it for them? Apple's not lying by offering an extended warranty, and there needs to be a limit before people should expect to at least do SOMETHING to be aware of the laws in their own country.
Eu citizens know anything about warranty laws but Apple keep advertising an "extended warranty" of two years (I.e. iPhone AppleCare) when you are basically paying just for an extended support.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
It's correct. It comes with a 2 year warranty, but a 1 year "Apple Limited Warranty".

The two are very different things - the EU warranty is similar to the warranty provided by the Sale of Goods Act in the UK - we're covered for 6 years, but you try claiming anything after 6 months - it's near on impossible, takes ages, and requires you to "prove" there was an inherent fault.

That's the key different - Apple's warranty (1 year) provides cover for all faults that develop - the EU warranty provides coverage for 2 years for faults that were present at the time of purchase. I think the italian regulator just needed some $$$.
Wrong.
There were no place in apple's website where the "two years warranty" was shown.
All companies changed they warranty policy to follow EU rules (I.e. Nokia warranty was the same of Apple now is 24 months), except for Apple.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Max(IT) View Post
Eu citizens know anything about warranty laws but Apple keep advertising an "extended warranty" of two years (I.e. iPhone AppleCare) when you are basically paying just for an extended support.

----------



Wrong.
There were no place in apple's website where the "two years warranty" was shown.
All companies changed they warranty policy to follow EU rules (I.e. Nokia warranty was the same of Apple now is 24 months), except for Apple.
Erm No - I'm not wrong. It says it comes with a 1 year "Apple Limited Warranty". And it says it, loud and clear, here: http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

You don't have to advertise every single law - if it's implied by law, it's there (i.e. on the motorway, there's not a sign for every motorway law, but the laws are still valid.). Apple's LIMITED warranty is on top of your legal warranty - which is why it always says something like "your statuary rights are not affected". What would you rather happen in month 9 should your iPhone break (remember the burden is on YOU after 6 months)? Apple to replace it (under their limited warranty), or to have to prove that it was faulty at the point of purchase (EU). I know which I'd prefer.

Please check your facts before calling me out like that
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