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Old Dec 25, 2012, 01:08 AM   #1
apple_iBoy
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Mac Pro Christmas present exchange for iMac?

Hi everyone. I first want to say merry Christmas and happy holidays to all. I have a "nice" problem to pose and hope I can get some feedback.

My parents got me a new Mac this Christmas. Please understand I'm very thankful and grateful (let me get that out of the way first to avoid potential abuse in the thread).

As happened the last time my parents gave me computer, my mom called Apple and sought out (was talked into) the very most extreme thing they had to offer, a 12 core Mac Pro. This is outrageous overkill for my needs. Just like last time, the Apple phone rep apparently sensed my mom's lack of tech knowledge and convinced her that I could use a machine like this "so I don't fill it up with all my photos."

I use my current desktop computer (2006 Mac Pro) to house my iTunes media library, to play with photos and video in a very amateur way, and do other mundane things. I also have a 2011 Macbook Air that I use mostly for work related things (I'm an engineering professor).

I am considering exchanging the Mac Pro for a high-end 27" iMac. Because of the price differential, I could also add an additional Thunderbolt display, Thunderbolt backup drives, Fusion drive, and a few other perks. My current thinking is that I would take this unopened Mac Pro to the Apple store, ask for a gift card for the purchase amount, and place an order for January delivery of a new iMac. There are a few reasons i am thinking about doing this.

I know Apple has something new in store for the Mac Pro in 2013. I feel that major updates might shorten the length of time this machine is eligible for updates and upgrades. I already feel a little burned by Apple with regard to my 2006 Mac Pro, which cannot run Mountain Lion (easily) and which I have had to jump through ridiculous hoops to pair up with a marginally up-to-date graphics card. The fact that this 2012 Mac Pro doesn't have Thunderbolt (cannot even connect to the Thunderbolt display!) makes me feel that it will not be enjoying the Apple love for very long.

Another advantage of the exchange is the nice display options I'd have. Currently my Mac Pro is hooked up to a 20" Cinema Display (from when the aluminum models first came out a number of years ago). I feel an upgrade to two 27" screens would be a more definitive advantage than having a zillion processing cores.

I realize that the iMac is almost un-upgradable and as such is more of a disposable product that might not have the legs of the Mac Pro. However, based on my experience with my current Mac Pro, Apple hobbles the upgrade path to these wonderful machines, which should be so superbly upgradable, and in the process really diminishes what should be the Mac Pro's crowning advantage.


I am basically wondering if anyone can think of a compelling reason why I shouldn't do this — maybe something spectacular about this Mac Pro that I've overlooked? Will I somehow find a use for those 12 cores that I don't currently understand? Does it really have a value for a user like me, given the pricetag?

Your help would be appreciated.

Last edited by apple_iBoy; Dec 25, 2012 at 01:14 AM.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 01:14 AM   #2
Macman45
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It's a shame you are back home in the Staes. The deal-breaker for me and the Pro however is the lack of FULL T/Bolt support....I have a Pegasus R4 for bulk storage.

I went with the Top end BTO Imac ( delivers January ) 32GB RAM 2GB GPU etc. etc. would sut you down to the ground. Your parents have the 14 day return option, so if it won't offend them if swap, why not contact Apple and ask for a return / re-order?
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:22 AM   #3
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It's a shame you are back home in the Staes. The deal-breaker for me and the Pro however is the lack of FULL T/Bolt support....I have a Pegasus R4 for bulk storage.

I went with the Top end BTO Imac ( delivers January ) 32GB RAM 2GB GPU etc. etc. would sut you down to the ground. Your parents have the 14 day return option, so if it won't offend them if swap, why not contact Apple and ask for a return / re-order?
Appreciate the meaningful response. I think the lack of thunderbolt is what bothers me the most as well. The iMac you describe is the one I think I'd order too.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:39 AM   #4
Alekto
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Do you want to swap parents?
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:44 AM   #5
stridemat
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I don't see it being a problem if you want to swap it for something that you feel would have better value, and suits your needs more.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:50 AM   #6
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I'd keep the Mac Pro. Not only is the VGA card upgradable, but you can easily pop in more hdds or ssds when needed. I'd say support wise, both systems will lose os upgradability around the same time but the mac pro will be worth more for resale. VGA tech changes so fast that it would be a drag to be stuck with the 680mx 3 years fom now when midrange desktop cards will be walking all over it.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:59 AM   #7
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I'd keep the Mac Pro. Not only is the VGA card upgradable, but you can easily pop in more hdds or ssds when needed. I'd say support wise, both systems will lose os upgradability around the same time but the mac pro will be worth more for resale. VGA tech changes so fast that it would be a drag to be stuck with the 680mx 3 years fom now when midrange desktop cards will be walking all over it.
That is a good point. Although I haven't had the best experiences with video card upgrades with my 2006 MP. It came with the GeForce 7300 (actually it came with 3 of them another example of Apple giving my folks a questionable sale pitch). I have a more modern card in there now but it involved kext finangling and blank screens and possibilities of breakage with every point upgrade. I guess Mac Pros have gotten better in that regard huh? Still have a bitter taste about the way the Mac Pro 1,1 has been dealt with.

I do love the MP for ability to add drives but I kind of see thunderbolt on iMac as the way to do that going forward. Legit reasoning? Is there a reason to prefer internal drives?
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 01:47 AM   #8
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The pro will do everything the iMac does and more. Keep the pro.

I sorta smell troll.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 01:58 AM   #9
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The pro will do everything the iMac does and more. Keep the pro.

I sorta smell troll.
Your sense of smell's off buddy. Thanks for the useful feedback.
Thumb resize.

Last edited by OllyW; Dec 25, 2012 at 02:27 AM. Reason: changed tags on oversized image from IMG to TIMG
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:09 AM   #10
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Your sense of smell's off buddy. Thanks for the useful feedback.
Thumb resize.
how do we know that box is not an empty box?

Last edited by OllyW; Dec 30, 2012 at 04:33 AM. Reason: clean up
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:19 AM   #11
El Awesome
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First World Problems - ah goddammit, I got a crappy 6k$ 12core Mac Pro for Chirstmas :/


No, exchanging it should be no problem...
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:28 AM   #12
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Most people here are going to say MP for obvious reasons, but you clearly have no need for it.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:34 AM   #13
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Nice problem to have....
As a fellow MP 1,1 owner, I can see where you're coming from with the lack of support in Mountain Lion- to my mind though, it's six years old, Apple was going to draw the line somewhere, and for the vast majority of the use I give it it still is more than up to the job (the Radeon 4870 helps in that regard). That said, as always, there are some jobs that you can never have enough power for, which is why I (like more than a few here) would have bought a '12 MP had it been the proper update it could and should have been, and are still waiting on what Tim Cook may or may not launch next year. A 27" iMac would do pretty much everything I'd want...but at the same time I'd rather wait for a new MP, and I'd probably go down the Hackintosh route if the MP gets canned. The last three desktop Macs I've owned have all had upgrades that just weren't possible for any iMac (video on all three, USB cards on two, extra drives on two). And no iMac will have the same potential longevity.
If it were me, I'd be saying 'thanks', selling the 1,1 & banking the proceeds, enjoying the '12 for the time being...and being ready to buy the 2013, if it was enough of an upgrade in my mind. Win/win.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:03 PM   #14
d-m-a-x
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Nice problem to have....
As a fellow MP 1,1 owner, I can see where you're coming from with the lack of support in Mountain Lion- to my mind though, it's six years old, Apple was going to draw the line somewhere, and for the vast majority of the use I give it it still is more than up to the job (the Radeon 4870 helps in that regard). That said, as always, there are some jobs that you can never have enough power for, which is why I (like more than a few here) would have bought a '12 MP had it been the proper update it could and should have been, and are still waiting on what Tim Cook may or may not launch next year. A 27" iMac would do pretty much everything I'd want...but at the same time I'd rather wait for a new MP, and I'd probably go down the Hackintosh route if the MP gets canned. The last three desktop Macs I've owned have all had upgrades that just weren't possible for any iMac (video on all three, USB cards on two, extra drives on two). And no iMac will have the same potential longevity.
If it were me, I'd be saying 'thanks', selling the 1,1 & banking the proceeds, enjoying the '12 for the time being...and being ready to buy the 2013, if it was enough of an upgrade in my mind. Win/win.
it is amazing how much life i got out of my 1,1. Totally stable with 10.7.5, and an upgrade to mountain lion is not out of the question. Processors, video cards, ram, hard drives, and pci sata usb3 have all been upgraded. This is impossible with an imac - mac pro is a very flexible machine and it will last you a long time
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 12:09 PM   #15
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I would stick to the MP. First reason would be, that I would not want to exchange any present, especially one from my parents. Second reason is that you never know what tasks future would bring. For example, when I got my 09 MP, it was certainly overkill for my tasks (graphic design). But then, as a designer I had to test my apps in emulated environment, and the power of my machine became handy. Then I made several videos for my music band, and my machine worked awesome for this goals, very fast work with video and audio, compressor working very fast, final cut also running smooth. Now I am learning Maya, for my personal purposes, and everything is easy, fast, just as it should be and as I like it. So now I can say, that this machine is not overkill at all, it is perfect, absolutely perfect for my needs.

So what I am saying - even if a machine looks overkill now, you never know what tasks it would be able to perform for you in future. Life is unpredictable =)

Plus, having some resources that you are not using is very pushing and motivating. It was a partial reason for me to start learning 3D.

So I vote for keeping a MP. Good luck with any decision that you make.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:47 PM   #16
torana355
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Can i just say, how much money do your folks have???? My folks would NEVER give me a present of that expense. Why don't you exchange it for the iMac and give the remaining cash back to your parents?
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:35 PM   #17
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You're not going to like it but

Unless you have a Fat Birthday or something coming up where you can get the New Mac Pro for 2013: Ask and make sure the Gift Card will last a year, and wait for the Mac Pro 2013, if you get scared you can try MacMall (maybe they'll use the gift card) last minute for a left over MP model, if Apple does something screwy like not make a 2013 Mac Pro.

While you are waiting like some of us, you can buy some Thunderbolt drives or accessories, that you should be able to use with you AIR that should hold you over...

But you want something new NOW don't ya? :P

EOL
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 06:01 PM   #18
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Unless you have a Fat Birthday or something coming up where you can get the New Mac Pro for 2013: Ask and make sure the Gift Card will last a year, and wait for the Mac Pro 2013, if you get scared you can try MacMall (maybe they'll use the gift card) last minute for a left over MP model, if Apple does something screwy like not make a 2013 Mac Pro.

While you are waiting like some of us, you can buy some Thunderbolt drives or accessories, that you should be able to use with you AIR that should hold you over...

But you want something new NOW don't ya? :P

EOL
A few years ago, I would had said the same thing. But Apple is turning into a consumer company more and more and less of a professional company. Every time it seems they update a product they remove things I use from the new model, and for no legitimate reason. The "thinner" iMac was a joke to me, and with the delay of the Mac Pro refresh, I would almost bet money this is going to be a significant redesign. And judging by history there is a good chance it could go in the wrong direction.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 03:05 PM   #19
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Your sense of smell's off buddy. Thanks for the useful feedback.
Thumb resize.
Dominated

Your computer most likely cost $3799.00. Add in tax, applecare if you got it, shipping or w.e.... Thats almost a 4000 DOLLAR COMPUTER.

And yea, that mac pro is a complete waste of money. The only reason to use it is if you work for a company that requires a licensed copy of OS X, and an extremely powerful computer.

A PC build with the same specs can cost up to 1000 dollars less if not more, you can hackintosh if you want.. etc.

The only reason i can think of a person needing that is if they just must have OS X, but also want to bootcamp and use a top end GPU.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 92jlee View Post
Sweet mother of christ a 12core mac pro for christmas?! Wow! You lucky so and so.

Personally I'd keep the Pro. My personal reason which wouldn't suit everyone;

- 12 cores of power! Always like to boast about having 8 cores, let alone 12.
- More ram than an iMac (96 top end vs 32?)
- will last longer than an iMac (i'm on a 1,1 which is 5/6 years old - todays Apple stuff seems to be alot more consumer based when it breaks it breaks)
-continue to upgrade the Pro vs iMac, more disks, graphics card and even processor.
- I like real desktops, plus you have a 1,1 so I assume you have all the monitors, keyboard blah blah.. Might as well just replace the 1,1.

Vote with your wallet (or mothers wallet in this case) if you take it back and swap it for an iMac you are basically telling Apple you don't want a real desktop computer, you want an anorexic laptop on a stand..

Yeah you wont have thunderbolt.. but so? You don't with the 1,1 and you didnt expect this pro, its a gift. Plus do you really need thunderbolt?...
What? Are you serious? Vote with your wallet?

If he keeps the Pro he is telling apple he wants to get slammed with overpriced hardware. And my god, from the sound of the OP there is no way he will ever, and i mean EVER, use all 12 cores.


@OP: you do what you think is best, but know that the Macrumors official site stance on the 2012 mac pro is that its "outdated" and it recommends waiting for 2013. Just ask yourself this, do you really need a 4000 dollar computer, and how much computer do you think you would get from a PC that you build that cost 4000 dollars. Do you do high end graphic rendering? Do you play video games? Do you word process and cruise facebook?

as far as i'm concerned, unless you work for lucas arts or something, that 4k Mac pro is not worth it.

Last edited by Phrygian; Dec 25, 2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 03:44 PM   #20
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Although not quite as lush as a 12-core, I got a quad core 3.2 for xmas and there is no way in hell it's been traded for a stinky skinny ugly iMac...

I've put two SSD's Intel 520s' 120GB in raid 0 as boot, 2 WD Black 1TB as raid 0 for data, a 250GB drive as TM for boot drive, a 160GB drive as clone for boot drive, and the original 1TB drive is TM back for data, I've also put the 2 SSD on a Velocity x2 PCIe card, caldigit usb3 PCIe card, LG BD M-Disk RW and stuck in 24GB of RAM.

Its purring along nicely for me, when it's out of warranty I'll put the HEX processor in it.

Thunderbolt....heard enough of it, don't like it done need it, got two GIG Ethernets I can use to hook up any external storage I need, got USB3, got FW 800...

only thing that is missing is the ML upgrade I'm still waiting on

iMac is .... not for me even more so now i have this baby running
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 04:00 PM   #21
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I can relate to the OP (except I paid for mine :-)). I am a Doctoral student and an Engineer. I have a very similar set-up to his new present (see photo), I have 12-cores, 32 GB of RAM, the 5870 Video card, and 8TB of HD space. I do all of my research and school work on the Mac side, and run Parallels with Windows 7 Pro OS for Autodesk, MS Visio, and MS Project. Each OS has its own 27" monitor and workspace. It is truly the best of both worlds . I could not be happier. OBTW I have had mine for about a week, moving up from a loaded 2011 IMac. And OP, I have a MacBookPro 15" Retina with a 27" Thunderbolt monitor sitting right next to the MacPro, the monitors are identical in resolution, color space and brightness, if you did not know which was which you could not tell which was TB and which was MiniDP.

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/...ps84579976.jpg
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 11:31 PM   #22
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If you only need TBolt for displays, you can always buy the Korean panels which are basically the same panel and then you also have more input options such as DVI or HDMI on those panels. You can also get 2 for the price of one. They don't look as nice as the TBD but will do the same job, if not more.

The ability to upgrade CPU/GPU, which I don't think the CPUs will need to be upgraded for a long time, the GPU should always be upgradable if you ever need to. You can also SLI them if you ever want to game in windows. The ability to add SSDs or HDDs are also cheaper compared to TB alternatives.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:18 PM   #23
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Well, for those interested, I have decided to trade this Mac Pro in, but will wait to see what 2013 has in store before making a replacement purchase.

At the moment, the 27" iMac seems to be the best fit for me. However, I am open to the possibility that my opinion might change when the next generation pro system is unveiled (presumably this coming year). I'll wait until then to make my decision.

I have been particularly swayed by those who pointed out the ability to adapt to new graphics cards with the Mac Pro. Although my experience has been a little spotty in that regard, I understand it is easier with the newer models. I also have been reminded of the rock-solid build quality of the Mac Pro. I hope whatever model might come next will also have long-lasting components and upgradable architecture.

If I do ultimately purchase another Mac Pro, it would probably be a mid-range model coupled with a new display.

For those who have criticized me for making an exchange of a Christmas gift, I respect that perhaps your family dynamic or personal mores work a little differently than mine. In my case, my family is trying to give me a nice upgraded computer experience because they know I enjoy technology neither they nor I have an emotional investment in a particular box with particular specs. They want me to get the most out of it. Like my parents, I take very good care of my things and keep them for many years, so it's important to us that the fit be right.

Thanks to all (or at least most) for helping me make my decision...to wait to make my decision.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:22 PM   #24
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Well, for those interested, I have decided to trade this Mac Pro in, but will wait to see what 2013 has in store before making a replacement purchase.

At the moment, the 27" iMac seems to be the best fit for me. However, I am open to the possibility that my opinion might change when the next generation pro system is unveiled (presumably this coming year). I'll wait until then to make my decision.

I have been particularly swayed by those who pointed out the ability to adapt to new graphics cards with the Mac Pro. Although my experience has been a little spotty in that regard, I understand it is easier with the newer models. I also have been reminded of the rock-solid build quality of the Mac Pro. I hope whatever model might come next will also have long-lasting components and upgradable architecture.

If I do ultimately purchase another Mac Pro, it would probably be a mid-range model coupled with a new display.

For those who have criticized me for making an exchange of a Christmas gift, I respect that perhaps your family dynamic or personal mores work a little differently than mine. In my case, my family is trying to give me a nice upgraded computer experience because they know I enjoy technology neither they nor I have an emotional investment in giving me a particular box with particular specs. They want me to get the most out of it. Like my parents, I take very good care of my things and keep them for many years, so it's important to us that the fit be right.

Thanks to all (or at least most) for helping me make my decision...to wait to make my decision.
Traded in? As in refund, gift card or actual trade in at a loss?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 05:24 PM   #25
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Traded in? As in refund, gift card or actual trade in at a loss?
Traded at the Apple store for gift cards.
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