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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:46 PM   #1
rayjay86
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Thinking of switching to mirrorless

Hi all,

I've been shooting with a D5000, Nikon 35mm f/1.8, sigma 10-20mm, nikon 70-300 VR.

I love my setup but after this recent trip to Asia and North America I've finally realized that my foray into photography is something I enjoy but I'm not super serious about it. I've come to embrace having something that is small and I can carry around but offers more control than a point and shoot. I've really gotten on to the new mirrorless systems that are out there and have been looking at the NEX-6, the Olympus E-PL5 and the GX1.

Questions are:

1. With a mirrorless system can I use my Nikon lenses (they are all cpu lenses) if I buy a mount with these? I know with the NEX I can buy an adapter off amazon (Fotodiox?) but I'm wondering how effective that is. I might be selling my old kit to get money for the change though so maybe moot.

2. Opinions on the above cameras (or any other suggestions) would be great

3. My intent here is not to start a war between DSLR and mirror less/MFT but just get opinions. As I mentioned, I like the fact that these new compact cameras are showing very impressive photo quality, have lots of control features and are small enough to fit in my jacket pocket, which is why I'm considering the switch.

Thanks!
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 12:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay86 View Post
Hi all,

I've been shooting with a D5000, Nikon 35mm f/1.8, sigma 10-20mm, nikon 70-300 VR.

I love my setup but after this recent trip to Asia and North America I've finally realized that my foray into photography is something I enjoy but I'm not super serious about it. I've come to embrace having something that is small and I can carry around but offers more control than a point and shoot. I've really gotten on to the new mirrorless systems that are out there and have been looking at the NEX-6, the Olympus E-PL5 and the GX1.

Questions are:

1. With a mirrorless system can I use my Nikon lenses (they are all cpu lenses) if I buy a mount with these? I know with the NEX I can buy an adapter off amazon (Fotodiox?) but I'm wondering how effective that is. I might be selling my old kit to get money for the change though so maybe moot.

2. Opinions on the above cameras (or any other suggestions) would be great

3. My intent here is not to start a war between DSLR and mirror less/MFT but just get opinions. As I mentioned, I like the fact that these new compact cameras are showing very impressive photo quality, have lots of control features and are small enough to fit in my jacket pocket, which is why I'm considering the switch.

Thanks!
I get where you're coming from. Myself, I've been researching mirroless systems more as an alternative for travel and street photography (less conspicuous). I'm a Canon user myself, but from everything I've read both Nikon and Canon have some serious trade offs (Nikon 1 series= lower pixel count, mediocre low light and Canon= lousy AF and mediocre handling), but both offer adapters for their larger lenses. As a result I'm seriously considering just having a separate kit all together. Here's a few I've been seriously considering.

1. Fuji X-PRO 1 or X-E1 (same sensor, Pro has optical view finder): Pro's= Solid image quality, handling, lenses, they look awesome! Con's: Third party RAW support is not so great, AF is a little slow, less lenses available (but from all accounts it's still quality glass!), not weather sealed (not a huge deal, but it doesn't hurt.)

2. Olympus OMD-EM5 or EPL5 (same sensor): Pro's= Crazy fast AF and overall response, OMD is weather sealed, great image quality, big lens selection, very compact, in body anti-shake saves on lens cost Con's= The smaller Micro four thirds sensor makes it harder to create a shallower depth of field making you spend more on wider aperture lenses to achieve a nice creamy bokeh.

3. Sony NEX6: Pro's= Compact, easy to use, solid image quality, nice screen, large APS-C sensor, good low light Con's= Small lens selection (but Sony is pushing the NEX line pretty hard so expect plenty more in the near future), no weather sealing.

Right now I'm leaning heavy towards to Fuji camp. Mainly because all of them have comparible image quality, so handling and looks become my main concern. I love the look of the old range finders and how they worked. Hope this helps!
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:00 AM   #3
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Thats awesome thanks so much for the input. A friend of mine has the E-PL5 and he raves about it so I might give it a try or at least play around with his camera before taking the plunge.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:17 AM   #4
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Some thoughts on Fuji

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
I get where you're coming from. Myself, I've been researching mirroless systems more as an alternative for travel and street photography (less conspicuous). I'm a Canon user myself, but from everything I've read both Nikon and Canon have some serious trade offs (Nikon 1 series= lower pixel count, mediocre low light and Canon= lousy AF and mediocre handling), but both offer adapters for their larger lenses. As a result I'm seriously considering just having a separate kit all together. Here's a few I've been seriously considering.

1. Fuji X-PRO 1 or X-E1 (same sensor, Pro has optical view finder): Pro's= Solid image quality, handling, lenses, they look awesome! Con's: Third party RAW support is not so great, AF is a little slow, less lenses available (but from all accounts it's still quality glass!), not weather sealed (not a huge deal, but it doesn't hurt.)

2. Olympus OMD-EM5 or EPL5 (same sensor): Pro's= Crazy fast AF and overall response, OMD is weather sealed, great image quality, big lens selection, very compact, in body anti-shake saves on lens cost Con's= The smaller Micro four thirds sensor makes it harder to create a shallower depth of field making you spend more on wider aperture lenses to achieve a nice creamy bokeh.

3. Sony NEX6: Pro's= Compact, easy to use, solid image quality, nice screen, large APS-C sensor, good low light Con's= Small lens selection (but Sony is pushing the NEX line pretty hard so expect plenty more in the near future), no weather sealing.

Right now I'm leaning heavy towards to Fuji camp. Mainly because all of them have comparible image quality, so handling and looks become my main concern. I love the look of the old range finders and how they worked. Hope this helps!
Just an aside that might help a little. My wife and I have just returned from SE Asia with a couple of 1000 photos. I use a Canon 550d with medium standard lenses and all the commotion I need to carry and make the system work. My wife has a Fuji X100 Black.....
I have to say, the Fuji has driven home again that it is a wonderfully controllable street shooting camera and the composition and quality of photo trounces my Canon every time.....whether it is me or my wife using it!

I am seriously now gonna look at the X1 Pro.....Fuji in my opinion is in a rich vein of quality and form. Also there is an expansion to the lens range due in 2013 as well...
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 06:52 AM   #5
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Nikon V2. With it you can reuse all your Nikon lenses. The best mirror less will not have the same level of AF and metering in better DSLRs. Use a V2 as your second body...not the only body.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:14 AM   #6
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Nikon V2. With it you can reuse all your Nikon lenses. The best mirror less will not have the same level of AF and metering in better DSLRs. Use a V2 as your second body...not the only body.
Well thats the thing, sadly I'm looking to get rid of my DSLR body. For the moment, being a student I can't afford to keep both. I find that because of the bulk I don't take my camera out nearly as much as I'd originally planned when I bought all the stuff. When I'm older and have more money I may go back and pick up a dslr body as a second but for the moment i want something small that is more than just a simple point and shoot.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:26 AM   #7
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so get rid of the body and keep the lenses for use with mirrorless via an adapter.

Using a Nikon or Canon camera you will have the best chance of support from software from Adobe and other software tools. Also you will have the largest choice of hardware accessories such as lenses.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:40 PM   #8
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1. Fuji X-PRO 1 or X-E1 [snip]

2. Olympus OMD-EM5 or EPL5 (same sensor): [snip]

3. Sony NEX6: [snip]
Yup, that's the same list I would have made and you nail all the pros and cons in my opinion. Personally, I would also lean towards the Fuji because I very much like the camera concept and user interface. The Olympus also feels great in my hands, but I don't like the concept behind the NEX. That's just a matter of personal taste, though. It's a good sign that you can list three very good, but very different cameras. I'm still eyeing a used X100, but unfortunately, here in Fukuoka, there are no good used camera stores that have one.

@OP
Forget about your current Nikon lenses, sell them with your body. None of them are that great anyway, my suggestion is to sell them and buy native lenses. I'd sell the Sigma separately from the body, though.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 09:45 PM   #9
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I have a Nex-7 and have been very happy with it. Lens selection isn't great but is improving. I currently have the kit 18-55 and 55-210 zooms. Next will be either the 50 1.8 or the macro. Also considering the sigma 30.

Image quality is excellent. Size is wonderful. While I can't put it in a pocket it is compact and lightweight. Battery life is more than adequate for my needs, most shots I've taken in a single session is about 300.

This was an upgrade from a Canon s5. I didn't have any existing lenses to worry about so the decision was a clean slate. I also considered some of the micro 4/3 cameras, mainly the Lumix models. The APS-C sensor was a major factor in my decision.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 09:58 PM   #10
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Nikon has its own mirror less??
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 10:04 PM   #11
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Nikon has its own mirror less??
Yup! The 1 series. Very fast, compact, and good quality in good light. Low light is not so great. Lots of controls, but many are buried in the menus. Haven't tried or read much on the V2 yet. It's still pretty new.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:27 PM   #12
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Nikon has its own mirror less??
Yes, but the sensor is so small that it immediately rules out the system for me.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 09:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
3. Sony NEX6: Pro's= Compact, easy to use, solid image quality, nice screen, large APS-C sensor, good low light Con's= Small lens selection (but Sony is pushing the NEX line pretty hard so expect plenty more in the near future), no weather sealing.
My sister & brother-in-law have a Sony NEX (not sure which one) but they seem to like it.

I have a Sony a65 with a Sony 18-250MM. Pretty good camera. I agree with those that say the lens selection can get better, but there are quite a few good lenses out there. Sony, IMO, does not get the credit it deserves. Just wish the NEX had built-in GPS tagging like their DSLTs do.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rayjay86 View Post
1. With a mirrorless system can I use my Nikon lenses (they are all cpu lenses) if I buy a mount with these? I know with the NEX I can buy an adapter off amazon (Fotodiox?) but I'm wondering how effective that is. I might be selling my old kit to get money for the change though so maybe moot.
If the goal is a smaller, more portable system than what is the point of the lens adaptor? Then you would have 60 or 70% of your gear unchanged, only swapping a dSLR body out for a slightly smaller mirrorlless body. What do you save, an inch of width?

If you want "smaller" then you have to buy a smaller system. No way around it.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjay86 View Post
1. With a mirrorless system can I use my Nikon lenses (they are all cpu lenses) if I buy a mount with these? I know with the NEX I can buy an adapter off amazon (Fotodiox?) but I'm wondering how effective that is. I might be selling my old kit to get money for the change though so maybe moot.
If you're going to attach a Nikon SLR lens to a mirrorless body, do you really save that much size over your D5000 body with the same lens?

In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:36 PM   #16
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I have to disagree. The image quality I'm getting is impressive especially in low-light with my panasonic lens. I got rid of my D5000 and the lenses. As with any camera with interchangeable lenses, the glass you use tends to make a bigger difference than the body. I've noticed that already.

As for ergonomic composure I haven't noticed any real problems that aren't related to getting used to using new hardware. Not having a viewfinder is a bit of a pain but I'm getting used to that. Battery life is pretty good considering how much I use it. I haven't charged it yet after one full charge cycle and I've been using it regularly for 2 days. I just turn it off when I'm not using it (it starts up fairly quickly).

I was skeptical at first but it seems like the mirrorless systems have come a long way from when they first came out in terms of features and image quality.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:58 PM   #17
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In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.
That might have been true of the first generation of mirrorless cameras but it's far from the case now. I find that my Olympus OM-D easily produces images as good as my (now retired) Nikon D90. The gap between mirrorless and DX SLRs is getting narrower with each iteration; the only significant difference now is autofocus performance for fast moving subjects like sports and wildlife and Nikon seem to have cracked that issue with the focus system on their 1 series cameras. You can bet Oly, Panny, Sony etc. will follow suit with their versions of this focus system in the next generation.

My initial venture into mirrorless was less than impressive: I got a good deal on an Oly E-PL1 with a 14-42mm kit lens a few years back but I didn't think much of the performance of the camera, which was unuseable above ISO 400, and I also felt the image quality was not much above my venerable old Canon Powershot G5. However, I subsequently impulse bought the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 and this made a huge difference to image quality. It quickly became clear to me that the kit lens supplied with the E-PL1 was pretty poor and that with good glass the m43 system had promise. (I think there is a new, better, version of the 14-42 out now.) The ISO issues seem to have been resolved in the latest generation of cameras such as my OM-D: I can get useable pictures up to ISO 3200, if needed. The range and quality of lenses has improved vastly in recent years as well.

m43 mirrorless still falls some way short of the image quality of full frame and probably always will but there seems to be little difference between m43 and DX and what you lose in that respect is made up by the convenience in terms of portability. (There is, of course no difference if using a DX-based mirrorless system like NEX, although I think these cameras, or rather their lenses, are too bulky.) It should be said too that some mirrorless cameras have features that are not available in SLRs such as focus peaking, 5-axis image stabilisation, live bulb, live histogram etc.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:46 PM   #18
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In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.
I get great image quality on my Nex-7. I've compared shots I've taken with others taken with APS-C sized DSLRs and I think it's better. I have also taken 250+ pix on a single battery and still had power left.

I can compose shots on the LCD or in the viewfinder. The LCD tilts so I can use it as a waist level finder or put it on the ground or overhead. When shooting in manual mode I can see what the exposure looks like in the display.

In my opinion the only reasons to go with a DSLR are Full frame sensor and better lens selection.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:57 PM   #19
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I get great image quality on my Nex-7. I've compared shots I've taken with others taken with APS-C sized DSLRs and I think it's better. I have also taken 250+ pix on a single battery and still had power left.
When you compare to APS-C in general. I bet your Nex-7 is far better than the $10,000 Nikon D1 with an APS sensor..from more than 10 years ago. You have to compare modern cameras to modern cameras. How does your Nex-7 compare to a new consumer grade camera like the D5200?

I've seen people say their iPhone shots look as good as DSLR shots, and if their skill is bad enough, it may well be true. I recently had to explain to a co-worker why they couldn't print a blurry P&S shot of a bird at 20x30 even though they thought it looked "professional". People have very low standards now but that's no reason to buy a crappy camera and pretend it's a good one.

I've got the D90 the poster above mentioned, I routinely take 1000+ pics on a single battery (and I still have to carry a spare). 250 is laughable, either in the studio or for an average person out on vacation.

Quote:
I can compose shots on the LCD or in the viewfinder.
Using the LCD adds a lot of shutter lag, slows the autofocus and feels akward. A limited quality LCD is also a poor substitute for a direct optical view of the actual scene.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:14 PM   #20
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When you compare to APS-C in general. I bet your Nex-7 is far better than the $10,000 Nikon D1 with an APS sensor..from more than 10 years ago. You have to compare modern cameras to modern cameras. How does your Nex-7 compare to a new consumer grade camera like the D5200?
The comparison was to a Canon Rebel XT so it was a bit older but not too much. Pix were fast moving cars at a motorsports event. Haven't had the opportunity to compare more recent APS cameras used at the same event.

Quote:
Using the LCD adds a lot of shutter lag, slows the autofocus and feels akward. A limited quality LCD is also a poor substitute for a direct optical view of the actual scene.
The Nex-7 has little shutter lag. In fact it took a while to get used to how fast the shutter would trip since I was expecting a slight lag. Live view is great in low light conditions.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 03:50 PM   #21
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I have a Nikon D200 with a few lenses, but I've been thinking about getting a mirrorless camera for trips where lugging my DSLR would be risky or just impractical. I plan on going to Vegas this fall and I don't want to take my giant DSLR out and about.

So I was looking into the Nikon J3, specifically for its compact size, yet still pretty good. With the standard lens attached I could fit it into a coat pocket without it being too bothersome. That is really what the J3 has going for it. But in every other way, the Sony NEX5-R is better. I really like its low-light performance. It's a bit big though. I might go with it anyways, at least I have some time to think about it.
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 09:20 AM   #22
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People have very low standards now but that's no reason to buy a crappy camera and pretend it's a good one.
But that's the whole principle of marketing cameras these days!
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Old Mar 4, 2013, 03:43 PM   #23
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I sold my Nikon D5000 to get the Sony NEX-6 as I wanted a smaller companion to my Nikon D800. It takes fantastic photos and is on par with the quality of photos the D5000 was pumping out. I am using the kit lens (16-50mm) and the Sony 16mm f/2.8 that I received for free as part of a promotional offer.
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Old Mar 29, 2013, 02:49 PM   #24
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Where did you get that idea? The NEX cameras and Fuji APS-C mirrorless cameras have the best image quality out of all the APS-C cameras out there. For example, the NEX cameras have significantly higher dynamic range than even a 5D2, the NEX-7 is slightly sharper than the D600 (granted the D600 beats it in everything else, just saying), and ISO 3200/6400 on the NEX-5N and Fuji X-E1 beat the crap out of stuff like the T4i.

You get more controls and what not on the SLR body, but the NEX-5R for example has the same or better image quality, is cheaper and takes much better video with continuous autofocus too. There's no doubt that mirrorless is the future.

I just can't wait for the full frame NEX next year. Hope it's not too expensive like SAR is suggesting.

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In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.
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