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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:05 PM   #1
DaGrandMastah
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Subler/MP4Tools Help

OK...so I know there are workarounds for playing DTS on Apple TV but I'm looking to just convert the file over. My question is....I had a DTS Audio file that I converted to Dolby Pro Logic ii and the file ends up as AAC 2 Channel. Alternatively, the same file converted using AAC Multi Channel gave me an AAC 6 channel audio file.

Which is better? What's the best way to convert DTS to a Apple TV Friendly audio format while sacrificing the least amount of audio quality?

Last edited by DaGrandMastah; Dec 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:27 PM   #2
Pyromonkey83
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Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah View Post
OK...so I know there are workarounds for playing DTS on Apple TV but I'm looking to just convert the file over. My question is....I had a DTS Audio file that I converted to Dolby Pro Logic ii and the file ends up as AAC 2 Channel. Alternatively, the same file converted using AAC Multi Channel gave me an AAC 6 channel audio file.

Which is better? What's the best way to convert DTS to a Apple TV Friendly audio format while sacrificing the least amount of audio quality?
The Dolby Pro Logic is a faux-surround audio file. It is only stereo audio, but has built in algorithms to try and reproduce surround sound with compatible receivers. This is good for small files, but it is not true surround.

The 6-channel audio file is true Surround Sound. This file format will encode each individual audio track for each speaker in the same fashion that DTS will. This is the best quality format that the ATV will support without ridiculous workarounds and is the only true surround sound you can get (again without ridiculous workarounds).

The best thing to actually do with your rips is to have both. This will allow you to play it on any system and be fully supported.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:54 PM   #3
dynaflash
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Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah View Post
Alternatively, the same file converted using AAC Multi Channel gave me an AAC 6 channel audio file.
The AppleTV cannot play back aac discrete 6 channel, it gets downmixed into a strange 3.0. If using aac I'd stick with the DPL2.

Best would be to take the DTS to AC3 5.1 Dolby which as is well documented the AppleTV can pass thru to your receiver properly.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:19 AM   #4
Pyromonkey83
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Whoops... Dyna above is right. I wasn't paying enough attention to the AAC specification.

Subler cannot mux into AC3, so you will have to use a different program (Handbrake is a great example) to make the AC3 audio file. You can either switch to have it do the full encode or turn the video settings to something ridiculously low and just make the audio track. Then you can mux the files together at the end using subler if you want to go that route.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:31 AM   #5
DaGrandMastah
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Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Whoops... Dyna above is right. I wasn't paying enough attention to the AAC specification.

Subler cannot mux into AC3, so you will have to use a different program (Handbrake is a great example) to make the AC3 audio file. You can either switch to have it do the full encode or turn the video settings to something ridiculously low and just make the audio track. Then you can mux the files together at the end using subler if you want to go that route.
Thanks for the info to both of you. So to be clear.....if I want to use Subler only then I'm looking at stereo sound since Apple TV can't play 6 channel.

So which setting would I use on Handbrake? I see AC3 (ffmpeg) under Codec but mixdown has Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic 2 and 6 channel discrete.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 11:48 AM   #6
dynaflash
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So which setting would I use on Handbrake? I see AC3 (ffmpeg) under Codec but mixdown has Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic 2 and 6 channel discrete.
Click the Devices > AppleTV. Preset the first track will be aac 2.0 DPL2 and the second track will be AC3 5.1 DD (also known as 6 channel discreet). It is specifically this way because it works perfect for the AppleTV regardless of whether you have the sound hooked up to the optical or hdmi etc. Thats why the preset is setup that way. Funny that.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 03:22 PM   #7
DaGrandMastah
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Click the Devices > AppleTV. Preset the first track will be aac 2.0 DPL2 and the second track will be AC3 5.1 DD (also known as 6 channel discreet). It is specifically this way because it works perfect for the AppleTV regardless of whether you have the sound hooked up to the optical or hdmi etc. Thats why the preset is setup that way. Funny that.
Perfect. So one last question.

That sounds like it'll give me 2 audio streams. Am I importing both audio streams into the newly muxed file in Subler or am I only importing the AC3 5.1 dd track?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 04:56 PM   #8
Menneisyys2
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Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Whoops... Dyna above is right. I wasn't paying enough attention to the AAC specification.

Subler cannot mux into AC3, so you will have to use a different program (Handbrake is a great example) to make the AC3 audio file. You can either switch to have it do the full encode or turn the video settings to something ridiculously low and just make the audio track. Then you can mux the files together at the end using subler if you want to go that route.
Alternatively, use MP4Tools for the DTS -> AC3 addition, along with the AAC conversion. Then, no manual track editing will be necessary and you can do everything in one program only.

I think I've written a complete tutorial on this but can't find it now (I'll need to make my tutorials more organized, in, say, a tree or at least with keywords). Basically, what you need to do is very similar to how MKVTools is configured. See http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1495607 for the last installment of that series.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:58 PM   #9
spacepower7
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
The AppleTV cannot play back aac discrete 6 channel, it gets downmixed into a strange 3.0. If using aac I'd stick with the DPL2.

Best would be to take the DTS to AC3 5.1 Dolby which as is well documented the AppleTV can pass thru to your receiver properly.
Can the AppleTV playback AAC discrete 6 channels over HDMI? Are there any Receivers that support that format?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83 View Post
Even so, iTunes is lacking many metadata fields compared to subler. iTunes can add a few things, but you can not give movies or TV shows the HD tags or rating tags like you can with Subler. Also, adding things automatically with a quick 20 second search compared to filling in each individual field manually is a pain. I should know, I did 1400+ movies and TV shows that way before finding the wonderful magic that is Subler.
If you don't mind paying for software, I highly recommend the paid version of Identify2 for tagging. The paid version allows customized renaming of the files such as:
Name - year - seasons - episode - HD/SD - rating - any [] or () around any metadata written to the file. I use my own tag custom " (ID) " so that I know that the file was tagged with Identify2.

I have no affiliation with the app, I just think its great.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 01:36 PM   #10
DaGrandMastah
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Is there any benefit to doing 640 kbps per channel when converting to ac3? MP4Tools defaults to 448 kbps but handbrake, when converting to appletv3, used 640.

Also, just to confirm....mp4tools automatically optimizes a file?

I still find subler to be the best for tagging movies cause fo all the arguements that were already stated in this thread so I want to make sure that's all I need to do in subler to finish off my projects.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 02:02 PM   #11
mic j
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Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah View Post
Is there any benefit to doing 640 kbps per channel when converting to ac3? MP4Tools defaults to 448 kbps but handbrake, when converting to appletv3, used 640.

Also, just to confirm....mp4tools automatically optimizes a file?

I still find subler to be the best for tagging movies cause fo all the arguements that were already stated in this thread so I want to make sure that's all I need to do in subler to finish off my projects.
Just so you are aware, the aTV movie description field is of limited size and if you have a lot of metadata lines (director, producer,etc) the description field will decrease in size even further to accommodate those lines. If you want to maximize the movie description field size you can delete those fields using Subler. Most (if not all) of the other metadata tagging programs will allow you to leave the additional fields blank (or unselected) but do not actually remove them from the aTV display. Thus you end up with a smaller description field. Subler is the only tagger that I have used that allows actual removal of the whole field. Just an FYI.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:48 PM   #12
DaGrandMastah
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Just realized that the reason I was havinh problem with mp4tools had nothing to do with the file or the program....it's my yamaha receiver. For some reason it just won't transmit the video for these files. It works on some but not others. Not sure if it's because of the sound or video. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing it?

I know it has to do because of the sound. The same issue came up when hooking it up directly to the TV until I changed Dolby Digital in the settings to Auto. It seems that the receiver can't decode the ac3 5.1 sound.

Last edited by DaGrandMastah; Jan 1, 2013 at 06:57 PM.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 01:11 PM   #13
spacepower7
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Just so you are aware, the aTV movie description field is of limited size and if you have a lot of metadata lines (director, producer,etc) the description field will decrease in size even further to accommodate those lines. If you want to maximize the movie description field size you can delete those fields using Subler. Most (if not all) of the other metadata tagging programs will allow you to leave the additional fields blank (or unselected) but do not actually remove them from the aTV display. Thus you end up with a smaller description field. Subler is the only tagger that I have used that allows actual removal of the whole field. Just an FYI.
Thanks for that info on Subler. Many times when I use Identify2, the movie description gets cut off. When I'm lucky, Indenify2 will find both a long and short description.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:03 PM   #14
DaGrandMastah
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Crap. now I think I'm more confused then ever. MP4Tools isn't making any sense.

I just reuxed 5 gb file and I ended up with a 349 mb m4v. I set it so the video was pass thru, the audio was ac5 5.1 and add 2 channel and that's it.

I guess I just don't understand how this program works. I'm obviously doing something wrong.


Last edited by DaGrandMastah; Dec 30, 2012 at 02:03 AM.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:03 AM   #15
Menneisyys2
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Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah View Post
Crap. now I think I'm more confused then ever. MP4Tools isn't making any sense.

I just reuxed 5 gb file and I ended up with a 349 mb m4v. I set it so the video was pass thru, the audio was ac5 5.1 and add 2 channel and that's it.

I guess I just don't understand how this program works. I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Image
The settings are def. OK. Can you try with another mkv?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:42 AM   #16
DaGrandMastah
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The settings are def. OK. Can you try with another mkv?
Weird. I tried it again with the same mkv and it worked. Multiple times it came out wrong and now all of a sudden it was fine.

Thanks for that tagging info too. I'm gonna check that batch service out and see how I like it.

Last edited by DaGrandMastah; Dec 30, 2012 at 09:51 AM.
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