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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:43 AM   #1
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Apple Maintains Third Place in U.S. PC Sales for 4Q 2012




Research firm Gartner today released its preliminary personal computer shipment data for the fourth quarter of 2012, showing a mixed market for manufacturers. Overall, Gartner saw a 2.1% year-over-year decline in PC sales in the United States, compared to a 4.9% decline on a global basis.

Gartner's Preliminary U.S. PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q12 (Thousands of Units)
In the United States, Apple maintained its third-place ranking with 12.3% of the market on a unit sales increase of 5.4% over the year-ago quarter. Apple's growth was outpaced by leader HP at 12.6% and fourth-place Lenovo at 9.7%, but Lenovo remains well behind Apple at 8.4% of the U.S. market. Apple and the other gainers were, however, more than offset by steep losses at Dell and Acer, leading to overall contraction of the PC market in the U.S.

Apple's U.S. Market Share Trend: 1Q06-4Q12 (Gartner)
As usual, Gartner did not cover Apple's worldwide market share for the quarter, as the company does not rank among the top five vendors on a worldwide basis.

IDC has also released its estimates of PC sales for the quarter, offering an even bleaker view of the market with its calculations of 6.4% contraction in the global market and a 4.5% decline in the United States. Apple in particular took a hit in IDC's estimates relative to Gartner's numbers, with IDC projecting that Apple's sales actually shrank by 0.2% year-over-year. Still, given the overall market decline in the U.S., IDC saw Apple's share of the market rise from 10.9% to 11.4%.

Article Link: Apple Maintains Third Place in U.S. PC Sales for 4Q 2012
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:47 AM   #2
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HP and Dell sell more PC's?

how much money do they make on them? None?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
HP and Dell sell more PC's?

how much money do they make on them? None?
Wow, this thread opens on quick the ******** already. Are you really surprised, what with enterprise level contracts for notebooks and desktops that HP and Dell would outsell Apple, when they've been at #1 and #2 for years now ?

As for the actual numbers, I'm surprised the current tablet craze didn't eat more into this segment. The market is mature and lets face, as technology advances, the actual niches that do require more and more computing power are getting smaller and rarer. Most people have attained a level of computing power to fill their needs quite a while ago, and upgrades are mostly done to replace faulty old hardware or out of a "want" consumerism basis.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:15 AM   #4
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Wow, this thread opens on quick the ******** already. Are you really surprised, what with enterprise level contracts for notebooks and desktops that HP and Dell would outsell Apple, when they've been at #1 and #2 for years now ?

As for the actual numbers, I'm surprised the current tablet craze didn't eat more into this segment. The market is mature and lets face, as technology advances, the actual niches that do require more and more computing power are getting smaller and rarer. Most people have attained a level of computing power to fill their needs quite a while ago, and upgrades are mostly done to replace faulty old hardware or out of a "want" consumerism basis.
I think you must have been actively looking for '********' to comment on, because there didn't actually seem to be any in that post. Dell and HP, in fact, make virtually nothing from their PC sales because they got involved in the PC price wars, where vendors competed for market share based solely on price. In the beginning that competition was good, but eventually the vendors had to cut into quality to keep pricing lower, and the market *still* hasn't really recovered from that.

The fact is that both Dell and HP outsell Apple (in both units and revenue), but they're getting *murdered* by the unbelievably low margins on the typical systems they sell. Apple avoided the race to no profits that the rest of the PC industry 'competed' in over the last two decades or so. The lowest-end systems sold by Apple are mid-range system by the standards of most OEMs, including Dell and HP, and carry similar profit margins to those systems. Apple doesn't *do* the 'low-end' where there are no profit margins though.

In the mid-range and upper end, there is more room for both quality and profits because not so many corners need to be cut to squeeze prices down. The result of cutting corners and 'going cheap' in order to compete solely on price has resulted in *most* Windows PC vendors gaining a reputation for poor quality over the years, at the very least in their 'consumer' lines.

Profitability in the Windows PC market has been so poor that HP recently looked at unloading their PC division because it was so unprofitable. Dell has had financial issues related to poor profitability in the recent past as well, though I don't recall seeing anything in the past few years, so they may have gotten things under control.

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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
Gotta stick to the U.S. numbers because they fall off when you consider worldwide numbers, which really show how successful Lenovo and ASUS have been.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23903013
That's true. I remember when ASUS were just 'the guys who assemble other people's gear'. They've really made a move on the market since then.

I do wish they'd show more than the top 5, though. Where *does* Apple sit on the charts for world-wide sales? 10th? 6th? 25th?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
I think you must have been actively looking for '********' to comment on,
No sorry, trying to dismiss market share numbers with "profit" is the argument of someone looking to justify Apple's position in some way. It's not really the topic and no one rational would care enough that Apple is #3 to try and attack HP and Dell's #1 spot.

No one but shareholders care about profits. Profits are essentially the dollars a company managed to charge extra for to buyers and stuff their money with. If you ask me, the less profits the better I'm off.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
No sorry, trying to dismiss market share numbers with "profit" is the argument of someone looking to justify Apple's position in some way. It's not really the topic and no one rational would care enough that Apple is #3 to try and attack HP and Dell's #1 spot.

No one but shareholders care about profits. Profits are essentially the dollars a company managed to charge extra for to buyers and stuff their money with. If you ask me, the less profits the better I'm off.
And yet, in a later post, you complain about the uber-low-cost systems you have to use at work where they are chosen purely by pricing.

When companies have gotten a product's price so low that they no longer make a sustainable profit, they have long since squeezed all the quality out of that product.

Dell and HP sell a *lot* more units than Apple, but they've both been in danger of going bankrupt more recently than Apple, simply because their 'typical' unit does virtually nothing for their bottom line.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:24 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
No sorry, trying to dismiss market share numbers with "profit" is the argument of someone looking to justify Apple's position in some way. It's not really the topic and no one rational would care enough that Apple is #3 to try and attack HP and Dell's #1 spot.
If that's all you see from the chart, you're missing the picture.

If you look in the long run, Apple's market share has more than doubled in the past 6 years. Achieving that steady and consistent growth in market share while maintaining a healthy gross margin makes Apple the envy of the entire industry.

Quote:
No one but shareholders care about profits.
Nonsense. Anyone who cares about the long-term viability of a company cares about the profits. Ringling Brothers may put more individuals through the door, but Cirque du Soleil is doing somersaults around them in the bottom line.

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If you ask me, the less profits the better I'm off.
There's a technical term for sustained less profits: bankruptcy.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
I think you must have been actively looking for '********' to comment on, because there didn't actually seem to be any in that post.
I disagree. I think it's pretty obvious the tone of the post. Not to mention - what does profit margin have to do with the topic. Oh I know it's related. But the manner in which the OP commented - it wasn't a discussion point. It was what everyone knows it was. A knock on HP and Dell for not being Apple.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:17 AM   #9
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I disagree. I think it's pretty obvious the tone of the post. Not to mention - what does profit margin have to do with the topic. Oh I know it's related. But the manner in which the OP commented - it wasn't a discussion point. It was what everyone knows it was. A knock on HP and Dell for not being Apple.
Best post I've read in a while.

It's funny how many threads on here are full of posters indirectly bragging about Apple ripping them off!
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
The fact is that both Dell and HP outsell Apple (in both units and revenue), but they're getting *murdered* by the unbelievably low margins on the typical systems they sell.
I wouldn't even bet that Dell is ahead of Apple in revenue (in computer sales). HP quite possibly, but not Dell.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
Gotta stick to the U.S. numbers because they fall off when you consider worldwide numbers, which really show how successful Lenovo and ASUS have been.
They also show how badly Dell is doing and what a disaster the last year has been for Acer. And these numbers show nothing at all about what Apple is doing world wide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
I didn't realize HP was doing so well... I'm in a room full of laptops right now and glancing around me I can make out...
HP is growing because the year before was just awful, and totally self-inflicted because plenty of people would have bought HP if Apotheker just had kept his mouth shut.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
Another "half the story" article. What are the PC profits made by each company?
One third of the story. There is unit sales, there is revenue, and then there is profit. Average sales prices for iPads is higher than PCs. Average sales price for Macs is twice that.

Last edited by gnasher729; Jan 14, 2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:16 AM   #11
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They also show how badly Dell is doing and what a disaster the last year has been for Acer. And these numbers show nothing at all about what Apple is doing world wide.
Probably not as well as you'd think. As far as the PC market is concerned, Apple has always had a much stronger following in the US than it is elsewhere. They have their following, but it's pretty small compared to what it is here in the states.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
HP and Dell sell more PC's?

how much money do they make on them? None?
As for DELL... they've been a sinking ship in recent years. They've had declining sales year-over-year for a while now. CEO Michael Dell should do the right thing, just close shop, sell the remaining assets of the company and give it back to the shareholders.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
HP and Dell sell more PC's?

how much money do they make on them? None?
I find it funny how Apple fans like to give Apple their money. Its like they know they are being over charged but don't mind
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:00 AM   #14
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I find it funny how Apple fans like to give Apple their money. Its like they know they are being over charged but don't mind
I've owned 6 desktop Macs and 2 laptops since 91... half were 2nd hand... So Apple hasn't made that much on new sales from me...

Also have purchased 3 iPhones, but only 1 new.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:29 AM   #15
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I've owned 6 desktop Macs and 2 laptops since 91... half were 2nd hand... So Apple hasn't made that much on new sales from me...

Also have purchased 3 iPhones, but only 1 new.
But Apple _did_ benefit from you. If you hadn't bought these used computers and phones, the seller wouldn't have had the money to buy new devices, but they would have kept using them. So Apple wouldn't have sold new devices to them.

(The seller might have had enough money to buy a new device, but it might not have been worth it. If I sell a used iPad 3 for $399 and buy an iPad 4 for $499, it costs me $100 to upgrade from iPad 3 to iPad 4. If I buy an iPad 4 for $499, and put the iPad 3 into a drawer, never to use it again, the upgrade costs $499. Even though I have the money, it's not worth it).


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Same price. No Bootcamp, either OS X or Windows. If Windows Mac is available, I would ask IS department to order one for me
Ask them if your company has a company license for Windows. Where I work, I could install Windows for free (legally), and quite a few Windows-only users are using Macs. Mostly MBAs.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:56 PM   #16
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I find it funny how Apple fans like to give Apple their money. Its like they know they are being over charged but don't mind
overcharged how? Macbooks have the best trackpads, great clean sleek designs, durable and great quality. Apple also has great customer support in the sense that you dont have to send your laptop away for AT LEAST 2 weeks to fix it if anything's wrong.

If you're used to great things please dont comment about them.

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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Agreed -

You can most certainly hear the fans on my MacBook Pro's. LOUDLY.
have to agree w this. Even when Im doing nothing I can still hear the slight buzz. Nothing major but I was expecting dead silence.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:26 PM   #17
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overcharged how? Macbooks have the best trackpads, great clean sleek designs, durable and great quality. Apple also has great customer support in the sense that you dont have to send your laptop away for AT LEAST 2 weeks to fix it if anything's wrong.

If you're used to great things please dont comment about them.

----------



have to agree w this. Even when Im doing nothing I can still hear the slight buzz. Nothing major but I was expecting dead silence.
Apple quality has gone down a lot, all my old macs g4 tower, mac mini g4, performa 600 are all still going fine. I dont buy Apple products anymore but my friends are always having faults with their iphones and macbooks. Faulty dvd drives, hard disks and power supply problems seem to happen a lot.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
HP and Dell sell more PC's?

how much money do they make on them? None?
This.
Total US profit share of all PCs I think would be Apple dominated. Selling a ****ton of something means nothing if the profits are not there.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:47 AM   #19
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I wouldn't mind Apple's market share staying small... It'd mean less Mac-compatible viruses I hope.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:50 AM   #20
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Lenovo is getting noticed. I wonder how many people chose a Lenovo lap top over Apple lap tops?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:51 AM   #21
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Good to see quality pays off; Lenovo seems to build pretty good laptops. And I guess much of HP's profits are to be found in the corporate sector. Ugh, Dell and Acer are almost in free fall...
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by STiNG Operation View Post
Lenovo is getting noticed. I wonder how many people chose a Lenovo lap top over Apple lap tops?
Getting noticed as the best choice for the corporate setting.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:00 AM   #23
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Lenovo is getting noticed. I wonder how many people chose a Lenovo lap top over Apple lap tops?
Zero.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:28 PM   #24
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Zero.
1.4 million in the fourth quarter
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:28 AM   #25
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Lenovo is getting noticed. I wonder how many people chose a Lenovo lap top over Apple lap tops?
Didn't chose it over a MBP because I have one, but I did just get a Y580 to do some light gaming on the go. It's really nice
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