Apple and Amazon Ordered to Enter Settlement Talks Over 'App Store' Trademark Issue

MacRumors · Jan 16, 2013, 10:18 AM

Earlier this month, a court threw out Apple's false advertising claim against Amazon in the dispute over the "App Store" trademark, leaving unaddressed the question of trademark infringement. The two companies have been battling over the issue for nearly two years, with Apple claiming that Amazon's use of the "Appstore" name to describe its marketplace for Android apps infringes upon Apple's App Store name and causes confusion with consumers.

Bloomberg now reports that the two sides have been order to enter settlement talks over the alleged infringement in an attempt to resolve the dispute before it heads to trial later this year.

Quote:

U.S. Magistrate Judge Elizabeth Laporte in San Francisco directed the companies to confer on March 21 and to bring their lead attorneys and people who have full authority to negotiate and settle the case, according to a court filing today. A trial is scheduled for August.

Apple is seeking a court order to block Amazon from using the term Appstore in its service to sell software for devices running Google Inc.'s Android operating system. Apple alleges the online retailer infringes its trademark and violates unfair competition laws.

Amazon has argued that the term "app store" is a generic one and that Apple should not have been preliminarily awarded a trademark on the name back in 2010. Apple originally filed for the trademark in 2008, but once the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office tentatively approved the application and published it for opposition in early 2010, Microsoft filed an objection, also arguing that the term was generic.

The trademark approval has remained in limbo, as Microsoft and Apple have agreed to postpone further debate in the process until the case between Apple and Amazon is resolved.

Article Link: Apple and Amazon Ordered to Enter Settlement Talks Over 'App Store' Trademark Issue

DipDog3 · Jan 16, 2013, 10:19 AM

Sorry, but yes, "App Store" is generic. You can't trademark it.

I don't think anyone gets confused, they know you go to the app store to get apps regardless of what device it is on.

alexgowers · Jan 16, 2013, 10:32 AM

I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all.

It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues.

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience.

I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.

samcraig · Jan 16, 2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexgowers

I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all.

It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues.

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience.

I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.

Well you're wrong on several points. See other thread...

AZREOSpecialist · Jan 16, 2013, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

Well you're wrong on several points. See other thread...

Who used the term "app store" before Apple?

Muscle Master · Jan 16, 2013, 12:16 PM

Apple just need to quit

samcraig · Jan 16, 2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist

Who used the term "app store" before Apple?

One page back in this thread. ONE.

KnightWRX · Jan 16, 2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist

Who used the term "app store" before Apple?

Off the top of my head :

- Palm, as seen on a screenshot posted twice in this very thread and tons in other threads.
- SAGE Networks, who held the trademark earlier this decade, albeit for a software licensing program rather than an actual Store that sells Applications.

Joesmith13245 · Jan 16, 2013, 10:35 AM

This is ridiculous. People wonder why Apple charges so much for their products. I bet Apple's legal division is as large as their R&D group.

btw, its not just Apple. Many other corporations spend too much time litigating vs. innovating.

This needs to stop.

AppleFan1984 · Jan 16, 2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joesmith13245

This is ridiculous. People wonder why Apple charges so much for their products. I bet Apple's legal division is as large as their R&D group.

Apple spends more on patents than R&D after Jobs patent vow
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/appl...-vow-50009420/

pacalis · Jan 16, 2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleFan1984

Apple spends more on patents than R&D after Jobs patent vow
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/appl...-vow-50009420/

It used to be that patent trolls were seen as a social evil because they didn't sell product.

And now here Apple has innovated again!

Joesmith13245 · Jan 16, 2013, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleFan1984

Apple spends more on patents than R&D after Jobs patent vow
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/appl...-vow-50009420/

And there it is.

LagunaSol · Jan 16, 2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexgowers

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying

Amen. Either Amazon was just plain lazy (doubtful) or they are intentionally trying to piggyback off the popular branding of Apple's App Store while feigning innocence. I love Amazon, but this was a lame move.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by a.gomez

I know it says BP on the sign but the Gas Station is there - so confusing.

I don't know where you buy gas, but I never see the words "Gas Station" on a gas station's sign. So it's not confusing...because it's not actually there.

MacBoobsPro · Jan 16, 2013, 10:44 AM

They could trade mark it if they said 'app' was short for Apple. As in AppleStore. Then they would have a case.

I think its stupid that they are told to 'talk it over' nothing will come of it thats why they are already at this stage is it not?

Popeye206 · Jan 16, 2013, 10:46 AM

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

But trademarks and patents seem to be worthless anymore. No company seems to respect either unless their forced to by the courts.

Renzatic · Jan 16, 2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

From the other thread...

I believe that's a Palm Treo. So it's been around for at least a little while.

Apple wasn't the first to use the term "App Store", and didn't coin the term "apps". Just because it became more commonly used after they released their app store in '08 doesn't give them the right to it.

Graeme43 · Jan 16, 2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

But trademarks and patents seem to be worthless anymore. No company seems to respect either unless their forced to by the courts.

Windows users have called their apps "programs" and its built into windows like program files..."

Mac OS X has used .app since it was launched and in a folder called applications...

Now Apple is popular... everyone wants a bit even though Apple has used app for like 13 years

garylapointe · Jan 16, 2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

I think since Mac OS X started they started having applications with the .APP extension, just thought I'd point that out, that's almost 12 years now?

It's not like they started calling them "EXE"s...

This is carried over from the NeXT OS and Apple used that for a bit (or more) for the start of OS X. (See section 4.1 if curious)

Gary

amptech · Jan 16, 2013, 10:46 AM

:AND OUT OF THE SHADOWS:

Palm bursts through the court room doors exclaiming, "THE CALENDAR, THE CALENDAR, WE HAD THE APP STORE FIRST."

"srsly though, PalmOS was awesome." - NoOne F. Ever

GenesisST · Jan 16, 2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagunaSol

I don't know where you buy gas, but I never see the words "Gas Station" on a gas station's sign. So it's not confusing...because it's not actually there.

http://sarchasm.net/

samcraig · Jan 16, 2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple Key

Did Palm trademark the term "App Store"? If they had, it probably would have been granted to them at that time.

The reason it has to do with Apple making it popular is because they popularized both "App" and "App Store". One which should be able to be trademarked, and the other which further reinforces this. There is undeniable customer confusion as far as the term is concerned. Whether this will be proven in court? I have no idea.

Ok - let's go with App Store (not App) as being trademarked by Apple. Explain to me the damages of said "confusion."

Just curious. I have no problem with Apple trying to trademark App Store. I just believe that it's not a trademarkable phrase.

MH01 · Jan 16, 2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagunaSol

I don't know where you buy gas, but I never see the words "Gas Station" on a gas station's sign. So it's not confusing...because it's not actually there.

And yet your know what a gas station is right???

I suspect your not looking hard enough
http://www.bp.com/productslistsearch...tentId=7013632

D.T. · Jan 16, 2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

I think I'm bowing out of this thread now though. It's already a retread of the other friend with people continuing their reconstructed version of history.

Yeah, probably a good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

That's hardware not in reference to the store. I see your point. But irrelevant to this, no?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

does not matter. Irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

It doesn't matter who popularized the word App. It's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is App Store. Not App. Not Store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

You don't have to be an expert to know that this issue has nothing to do with who coined the phrase APP

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

Ok - let's go with App Store (not App) as being trademarked by Apple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1518439

Please read before posting again

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

Deja Vous. Multiple Facepalms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcraig

No one is preventing Apple from using the term App. Nor App Store. And this issue isn't about the word App.

::headdesk::

... or not

( I feel your frustration ...

)

kitsap2 · Jan 16, 2013, 10:47 AM

In the Microsoft world, "Applications" were known as, "Programs". Apple has always called its, "programs", Applications.

Apple truncated the word, applications, to, App. Then called their new, smaller (file size) applications for iPhone, Apps. Then filed for trademark status of that name, in The App Store.

Microsoft would, theoretically, call their program/s, Prog/s. And hence, The Prog Store. Doesn't sound quite that nice rolling off the tongue, but it would make sense.

Amazon couldn't come up with their own nifty name, so they just "borrowed" Apple's name for their store. Maybe Amazon should have called their store, The DroidApp Store, Drapp Store, Roid Store, The Amazon Store for Little Programs to Run on Android Platform Phones Store.

Just my early morning thoughts. No legal eagle here.

Mr. Gates · Jan 16, 2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsap2

In the Microsoft world, "Applications" were known as, "Programs". Apple has always called its, "programs", Applications.

Apple truncated the word, applications, to, App. Then called their new, smaller (file size) applications for iPhone, Apps. Then filed for trademark status of that name, in The App Store.

Microsoft would, theoretically, call their program/s, Prog/s. And hence, The Prog Store. Doesn't sound quite that nice rolling off the tongue, but it would make sense.

Amazon couldn't come up with their own nifty name, so they just "borrowed" Apple's name for their store. Maybe Amazon should have called their store, The DroidApp Store, Drapp Store, Roid Store, The Amazon Store for Little Programs to Run on Android Platform Phones Store.

Just my early morning thoughts. No legal eagle here.

First of all, this little myth you are repeating has been circulated for a while now and its just not true. There are various examples of BOTH companies using BOTH terms throughout the past 30 years.

Second, neither company invented these words. They have been around hundreds of years and are just now being used in terms of computers.

Third, you can't trademark an abbreviation.

Get real

Jan 16, 2013, 10:19 AM	#2
DipDog3 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Sep 2002	Sorry, but yes, "App Store" is generic. You can't trademark it. I don't think anyone gets confused, they know you go to the app store to get apps regardless of what device it is on. __________________ Play with the iPad Tester & iPad Simulator Demo Interactive Phone - Try out the new Virtual iPhone 5 (Download Code @ RedRome.com)
	26

Jan 16, 2013, 12:16 PM	#6
Muscle Master macrumors 6502 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philadelphia	Apple just need to quit __________________ Apple Macbook Pro Retina '13 (Late 2012) OS X Mountain Lion / Intel Core i5-3210M @ 3.1GHz / 8GB DDR3 1600MHz / Retina Display @ 2560x1600 / 128GB Solid State Drive \| Black iPhone 5 16GB
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Jan 16, 2013, 10:32 AM	#3
alexgowers macrumors regular Join Date: Jun 2012	I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all. It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues. I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience. I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.
	19

Jan 16, 2013, 10:35 AM	#9
Joesmith13245 macrumors regular Join Date: Sep 2012	This is ridiculous. People wonder why Apple charges so much for their products. I bet Apple's legal division is as large as their R&D group. btw, its not just Apple. Many other corporations spend too much time litigating vs. innovating. This needs to stop.
	6

Jan 16, 2013, 10:44 AM	#14
MacBoobsPro macrumors 603 Join Date: Jan 2006	They could trade mark it if they said 'app' was short for Apple. As in AppleStore. Then they would have a case. I think its stupid that they are told to 'talk it over' nothing will come of it thats why they are already at this stage is it not?
	0

Jan 16, 2013, 10:46 AM	#15
Popeye206 macrumors 68020 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NE PA USA	Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it. But trademarks and patents seem to be worthless anymore. No company seems to respect either unless their forced to by the courts.
	6

Jan 16, 2013, 10:46 AM	#19
amptech macrumors newbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Virginia	:AND OUT OF THE SHADOWS: Palm bursts through the court room doors exclaiming, "THE CALENDAR, THE CALENDAR, WE HAD THE APP STORE FIRST." "srsly though, PalmOS was awesome." - NoOne F. Ever
	1

Jan 16, 2013, 10:47 AM	#24
kitsap2 macrumors newbie Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Usually, Seattle, Washington	In the Microsoft world, "Applications" were known as, "Programs". Apple has always called its, "programs", Applications. Apple truncated the word, applications, to, App. Then called their new, smaller (file size) applications for iPhone, Apps. Then filed for trademark status of that name, in The App Store. Microsoft would, theoretically, call their program/s, Prog/s. And hence, The Prog Store. Doesn't sound quite that nice rolling off the tongue, but it would make sense. Amazon couldn't come up with their own nifty name, so they just "borrowed" Apple's name for their store. Maybe Amazon should have called their store, The DroidApp Store, Drapp Store, Roid Store, The Amazon Store for Little Programs to Run on Android Platform Phones Store. Just my early morning thoughts. No legal eagle here.
	9