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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:08 AM   #1
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Steve Jobs Threatened Palm with Patent Suit Over No-Hire Policy




Steve Jobs threatened to file a patent suit against Palm if they didn't agree to not hire Apple employees, according to a Reuters report on a court filing (via AppleInsider) made public Tuesday. The court filing is a part of a class action lawsuit against Apple, Google, Pixar, Lucasfilm and others over an agreement those companies made to not actively solicit each other's employees to hire them away.

The companies attempted to keep an array of documents secret, but that request was rejected in parts by Judge Lucy Koh, which is why a statement from former Palm executive Edward Colligan has become public record. Colligan said that Jobs proposed the agreement to Palm, and that Jobs suggested that if Palm didn't agree they could face lawsuits "alleging infringement of Apple's many patents." Colligan responded to Jobs with an email:
Quote:
Your proposal that we agree that neither company will hire the other's employees, regardless of the individual's desires, is not only wrong, it is likely illegal.[...] Palm doesn't target other companies-we look for the best people we can find. l'd hope the same could be said about Apple1s practices. However, during the last year or so, as Apple geared up to compete with Palm in the phone space, Apple hired at least 2% of Palm's workforce. To put it in perspective, had Palm done the same, we'd have hired 300 folks from Apple. Instead, to my knowledge, we've hired just three.
Colligan also told Jobs that he was not intimidated by patent litigation and said that Palm had recently acquired some patents from Siemens that it could use against Apple and its iPhone patents. Jobs responded:
Quote:
Just for the record, when Siemens sold their handset business to BenQ they didn't sell them their essential patents but rather just gave them a license. The patents they did sell to BenQ are not that great. We looked at them ourselves when they were for sale. I guess you guys felt differently and bought them. We are not concerned about them at all. My advice is to take a look at our patent portfolio before you make a final decision here.
Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs revealed that Jobs was angry at Palm for hiring former employees, although the threat of patent litigation in Colligan's statement is certainly a new revelation.
Quote:
"Jobs was so furious that Palm was hiring some of his former employees that he complained to Bono, who was a cofounder of a private equity group, led by the former Apple CFO Fred Anderson, that had bought a controlling stake in Palm."
These aren't the only instances that Jobs became angry at the poaching of Apple employees, however. In January 2012 it was revealed, also according to a court filing, that Jobs complained to then-Google CEO Eric Schmidt about the hiring of Apple employees at Google.

Recently, current CEO Tim Cook was ordered to give a deposition in this case, so more nuggets of information are likely to be released as court filings are made public.

Article Link: Steve Jobs Threatened Palm with Patent Suit Over No-Hire Policy
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:11 AM   #2
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:15 AM   #3
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And people call Samsung scum.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:36 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
And people call Samsung scum.
They are scum... you can read all about it....

http://www.kernelmag.com/features/re...tion-and-lies/

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/bu...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aH3aDwXXnvqc

http://www.fastcompany.com/1627411/b...ean-prosecutor

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8029589.htm

Regardless of that, a whole lot of Silicon Valley companies (e.g.: just about all the big ones) are going to pay out on a class action lawsuit regarding these no-hire agreements. It extends way beyond Apple and Google.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:39 AM   #5
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They are scum... you can read all about it....

http://www.kernelmag.com/features/re...tion-and-lies/

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/bu...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aH3aDwXXnvqc

http://www.fastcompany.com/1627411/b...ean-prosecutor

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8029589.htm

Regardless of that, a whole lot of Silicon Valley companies (e.g.: just about all the big ones) are going to pay out on a class action lawsuit regarding these no-hire agreements. It extends way beyond Apple and Google.
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...

Last edited by dejo; Jan 23, 2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Removed insults.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:44 AM   #6
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*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
...And where are they on this thread? You fired the first shot, buddy.
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Last edited by dejo; Jan 23, 2013 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:15 AM   #7
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The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
Um, what? How does that not harm anyone? What about, you know, the people of Korea? You think Apple's (not really, Apple, but rather Steve Jobs, and let's be honest, everyone already knew he could be a tremendous arse) bullying is worse than fraud and bribery?

That Apple's posturing and brinksmanship, which is no worse than things like hostile takeovers and is common in virtually every business sector, is worse than actual crimes perpetrated against the government and people of a sovereign nation? If you really want to get into it, Samsung's dirty history and criminal connections go a lot deeper than this...

The business world is populated by sociopaths. It's a cutthroat environment where typically, the best are the best because of their "do whatever it takes" mentality. This is true for pretty much everything, business, sports (*cough* Lance Armstrong), even (or I should say, especially) science and academia -- when it comes to being the top, you sometimes have to be a terrible person to get there (and stay there). Ed Colligan is really a rare role model in this respect, but he was on the losing end for sure.

It's one thing to criticize Apple for its corporate policy or its products or even its executives. I tend to agree with many of these critiques. But to suggest that then doing something, that while not very nice is very commonplace, is indicative of Apple being more "scum" than Samsung... well that's kind of ridiculous when Samsung's crimes are not only incomparable, they're indefensible.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. You have the morals of a 3-year-old. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
Yeah, Steve Jobs was the worst human being who ever lived. Far worse than Hitler or Attila the Hun. He had the unmitigated gaul to play hardball so Apple could move to the top and stay there. What a scumbag. How could he sink to such depths of depravity. Grow up.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. You have the morals of a 3-year-old. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
You're right. Not paying the tax that goes to schools, public service, etc doesn't hurt anyone. Oh wait..
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. You have the morals of a 3-year-old. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
It's not hypocritical to say Samsung is scum in this instance. Those articles have nothing to do with Apple.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. You have the morals of a 3-year-old. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
OK. I am not defending Apple in any way. I rarely post to this forum these days as it has become a slagging match forum and not a forum about Apple innovation and potential (I won't even go into my view of Apple's recent success in that regard).

However I was so incredulous at your statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone.
This idea that failing to pay taxes doesn't harm anyone is baffling. The whole reason for taxes is to ensure that critical infrastructure is available to all and that the government catches those that fall with the hope of helping them back up: i.e. that if someone loses their job, the state subsidises them in the interim. No such system means no safety net which means as more and more people drop off the econimic engine the enconomy shrinks more and more. Eventually an economy hits a critical failure point and falls off the cliff. We have reached a state in many parts of the west where the survival and prioritisation of the corporation is more important than the welfare of the individual. Individuals are seen as something that can be sacrificed for the good of the corporation. Such a system is only good if it is proven to ultimately lead to the improvement of welfare standards of the whole. We have lost sight of that and it seems to be that the right wing believes that it is morally right to continue this way. There is no spirit of companionship. Your argument is a vile one and completely invalidates any argument you make subsequently regarding right and wrong.

I really don't mean to sound biblical, but it is the greed of such a system that will lead to its downfall. Nobody has an eye on the future of everything, only on their own future.

I was listening to an article in the UK recently about how a small area in the UK voted to support the Unionists in whichever way they could even though their economy was heavily reliant on the cotton from the southern states. They did so because their belief is making the world a better place ranked above their perosnal wealth. We should be looking at people like this for inspiration, not accepting that Samsung failing to pay taxes is a morally less acceptable than one corporation screwing over another.

Your argument reads: Samsung screwing over the state is less morally bad than one corporation trying to screw over another.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:10 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. You have the morals of a 3-year-old. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
Why would you insult someone by saying "you have the morals of a 3-year-old"? Did you honestly think you could slam Apple and not get some sort of reaction on a rather pro-Apple discussion board? Since this is an area to discuss things, you should intelligently make your case (and so should Apple fanboys), but there is not need to insult others. We don't want people to think that we have the maturity of 3-year-olds! (Disclaimer: That was a joke. I don't want people to think I am being insulting!)
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sy7ygy View Post
Not for your country.

Apple the biggest scum of them all? Then just why the F are you here?

You also fail to see reasoning of this behaviour - a company like Palm would do ANYTHING to get inside information of another company; even if it means poaching employees with empty promises then firing them a few months after.

Jobs didn't make Apple from being nice; this is the business world.
A company like Apple would do ANYTHING to get inside information of another company; even if it means poaching employees with empty promises then firing them a few months after.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
They are scum... you can read all about it....

http://www.kernelmag.com/features/re...tion-and-lies/

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/bu...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aH3aDwXXnvqc

http://www.fastcompany.com/1627411/b...ean-prosecutor

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8029589.htm

Regardless of that, a whole lot of Silicon Valley companies (e.g.: just about all the big ones) are going to pay out on a class action lawsuit regarding these no-hire agreements. It extends way beyond Apple and Google.
Do you have those links saved in Word file or something? Ready to go at a moments notice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchneiderMan View Post
Pirates of Silicone Valley. That's all I've got to say
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0168122/
Was just watching that a couple of hours ago!
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:19 AM   #15
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Um, what? How does that not harm anyone? What about, you know, the people of Korea? You think Apple's (not really, Apple, but rather Steve Jobs, and let's be honest, everyone already knew he could be a tremendous arse) bullying is worse than fraud and bribery?

That Apple's posturing and brinksmanship, which is no worse than things like hostile takeovers and is common in virtually every business sector, is worse than actual crimes perpetrated against the government and people of a sovereign nation? If you really want to get into it, Samsung's dirty history and criminal connections go a lot deeper than this...

The business world is populated by sociopaths. It's a cutthroat environment where typically, the best are the best because of their "do whatever it takes" mentality. This is true for pretty much everything, business, sports (*cough* Lance Armstrong), even (or I should say, especially) science and academia -- when it comes to being the top, you sometimes have to be a terrible person to get there (and stay there). Ed Colligan is really a rare role model in this respect, but he was on the losing end for sure.

It's one thing to criticize Apple for its corporate policy or its products or even its executives. I tend to agree with many of these critiques. But to suggest that then doing something, that while not very nice is very commonplace, is indicative of Apple being more "scum" than Samsung... well that's kind of ridiculous when Samsung's crimes are not only incomparable, they're indefensible.
Don't worry. Korea would be NOTHING without Samsung. In fact, the majority of the Korean people supported the previous President's decision to pardon Samsung's Head chief for tax evasion. So like I said, no harm done. The people of Korea have A LOT to thank for Samsung, and a little tax evasion is a very minor offense to them. Maybe it's a difference in culture between the US and Korea, since we seem to make a big deal when a Republican person evades taxes.

Also, LOL @ you thinking Samsung's crimes are "indefensible". At least Samsung doesn't try to enslave their employees and limit their rights. The only indefensible crime here is committed by Apple and their scum of a cult leader.

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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
Do you have those links saved in Word file or something? Ready to go at a moments notice?



Was just watching that a couple of hours ago!
Well, Apple lovers are obsessed with not only Apple, but Samsung. They really need to get out some more.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:21 AM   #16
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What a legend. And he wasn't threatening Palm to make more money or be a jerk. He was making sure people like us would always have the best products available because the best people would be able to work on them. We should be grateful.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:26 AM   #17
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Do you have those links saved in Word file or something? Ready to go at a moments notice?



Was just watching that a couple of hours ago!
I kid you not, I too was just watching it. All I can say is that Apple(particularly Steve Jobs) was very vengeful and didn't want to go through what happened with IBM and Microsoft again, even though they took their GUI idea from Xerox.

Last edited by lolkthxbai; Jan 23, 2013 at 02:26 AM. Reason: Misspelled "too"
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:06 PM   #18
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Do you have those links saved in Word file or something? Ready to go at a moments notice?
It took me all of 3 minutes to find the credible articles on Google and pull them back. No need to save them in a word file when simple searches like "Samsung Scandal" or "Samsung Bribery" pull the results back for you.

----------

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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
*yawn*
Where did I deny that Samsung wasn't scum or that they were never involved in illegal activities? I'm saying that it's hypocritical of Apple fanboys to proclaim that Samsung was scum and not mention the scum-like activities of Apple.
And just because other companies participated doesn't make it right. The way I see it, Apple is the biggest scum of them all. They make Samsung look like Mother Teresa. All Samsung is involved with is bribery of Korean politicians to get tax cuts and even more tax cuts, which doesn't really harm anyone. Apple's activities, on the other hand...
They kinda also bribed judges and elected officials to get not one, but two pardons from the South Korean government:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/29/s...ardoned-again/

Mother Teresa, indeed.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:43 AM   #19
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And people call Samsung scum.
It seems to me that this story shows that Jobs was acting like a spoiled brat with an attitude, not that Apple as a company is acting like a criminal organization. Samsung on the other hand, is linked with the Kkangpae (South Korean mafia).
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:52 AM   #20
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It seems to me that this story shows that Jobs was acting like a spoiled brat with an attitude, not that Apple as a company is acting like a criminal organization. Samsung on the other hand, is linked with the Kkangpae (South Korean mafia).
The only crimes Samsung has ever committed were bribery of politicians to get tax cuts and price fixing on LCD panels (Which Japanese firms have also been caught doing).

Also, here's the definition of scum: A person or group of people regarded as contemptible or worthless.

Both Samsung and Apple are scum, but here's the difference. Samsung's activities don't harm anyone or deprive anyone of their rights. Apple's does.

Last edited by dejo; Jan 23, 2013 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Removed insults.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:23 AM   #21
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Both Samsung and Apple are scum, but here's the difference. Samsung's activities don't harm anyone or deprive anyone of their rights. Apple's does.
See, here I mostly agree with you. They both have scum-like activities, but that's true of most companies. That doesn't justify it, of course, but when you weigh it all together, I really don't think Apple's behavior is worse than Samsung's.

This no-poaching agreement is NOT a company-wide thing. There was a very select 'no-call' list, so it likely only applied to important executives, high level employees, and key designers and engineers. While these individuals are hurt by being deprived of potential raises/promotions by recruitment, do you actually believe what Apple (and to be fair, we're singling out Apple here, but the other's in the agreement such as Google as equally culpable) did hurts people more than something like Samsung's LCD price fixing?

Just because someone was on the no-call list, that does not mean they necessarily were going to be recruited anyway. Again, I'm not saying this is okay behavior, but how many people do you think were even affected by this agreement? And of those, how many were substantially or materially damaged in a truly adverse manner?

Now consider how many people are harmed by something like LCD-price fixing? I'm amazed you think such behavior doesn't harm anyone; that harms every single person who bought a LCD-enabled device during that span (side note: I predict in 2-3 years, a judge is going to lay the banhammer on the hard drive price fixing fiasco happening right now). Bribing politicians for tax breaks, not unlike the disgusting lobbying that happens in US Congress, does harm the entire citizenry of a nation, at the benefit of the company, its execs, and its stockholders. The scale of their respective crimes, both douchey and scummy for sure, are just not even remotely comparable, let alone suggestive that Apple is more scum-like.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by AppleLover12345 View Post
The only crimes Samsung has ever committed were bribery of politicians to get tax cuts and price fixing on LCD panels (Which Japanese firms have also been caught doing).

Also, here's the definition of scum: A person or group of people regarded as contemptible or worthless.

Both Samsung and Apple are scum, but here's the difference. Samsung's activities don't harm anyone or deprive anyone of their rights. Apple's does.
So you say that because other companies were involved in the "no-poach policies", it does not excuse Apple. Yet, you excuse Samsung because other "Japanese firms have also been caught doing" it, right? And if you think that Samsung isn't harming anyone then you are a misguided person.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:38 AM   #23
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It's honestly a tremendous stretch to call this slavery. Also, it's not illegal, it's not a moral thing to do in my opinion, but legally, it's a sort of grey zone and just really quite douchey.

Also, yes, the $25 is a big deal because it was $25 x millions and millions of customers.

This is a recruitment ban on likely to be a few hundred of employees at most.
I think it fits the term closely. Though it might not be the slavery we all think of back in the 1700-1800s down in the Southern plantations, depriving people of their right to associate with whomever they want is a deplorable act and Apple should pay dearly.

Think about the repercussions of what might happen to the American worker if Apple gets their way. You're making minimum wage at McDonald's and due to anti-poaching laws, you can't get a management position that Burger King would have given you if they were free to hire you.

Last edited by OllyW; Jan 23, 2013 at 02:59 AM. Reason: Trolling
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:15 AM   #24
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It seems to me that this story shows that Jobs was acting like a spoiled brat with an attitude, not that Apple as a company is acting like a criminal organization. Samsung on the other hand, is linked with the Kkangpae (South Korean mafia).
And Apple is linked to the US mafia (Al Gore).
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:30 AM   #25
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And people call Samsung scum.
Can't blame them.
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