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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:59 PM   #1
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Xbox Founding Engineer Says Apple TV Could Destroy Console Gaming with Third-Party Apps




Earlier this month, we highlighted some comments from Valve founder Gabe Newell noting his view that Apple had the potential to take over the traditional gaming market by leveraging its existing ecosystem to deliver a "dumbed down living room platform" more quickly and efficiently than others can transition from the console to streaming via PC as Newell believes is the future.

Nat Brown, one of the first engineers to join the Xbox project back in 1999, has now published a blog post offering similar thoughts in noting the Microsoft is missing out on a major opportunity by not opening up that platform to small developers, an issue that Apple could easily exploit to gain tremendous momentum in the home gaming market.
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Why can't I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends' houses? Why can't I then distribute it digitally in a decent online store, give up a 30% cut and strike it rich if it's a great game, like I can for Android, for iPhone, or for iPad?
Brown notes that the terms of the Xbox developer program are so onerous that it is essentially impossible for an independent developer to succeed on the platform.

Brown also believes that the user experience on the Xbox platform leaves much to be desired, with Apple's emphasis on simplicity giving it an advantage with users.
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Apple, if it chooses to do so, will simply kill Playstation, Wii-U and xBox by introducing an open 30%-cut app/game ecosystem for Apple-TV. I already make a lot of money on iOS - I will be the first to write apps for Apple-TV when I can, and I know I'll make money. I would for xBox if I could and I knew I would make money. Maybe a "console-capable" Apple-TV isn't $99, maybe it's $199, and add another $79 for a controller. The current numbers already say a lot, even with Apple-TV not already an open console: 5.3M sold units in 2012, 90% year-over-year growth -- vs. xBox 360 -- about 9M units in 2012, 60% YoY decline.
Just today, Jefferies analyst Peter Misek claimed that Apple will be holding a TV-related special event next month, speculating that the company could announce developer tools for the Apple TV platform to set the stage for a full television set product later this year.

Article Link: Xbox Founding Engineer Says Apple TV Could Destroy Console Gaming with Third-Party Apps
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM   #2
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AppleTV should've left the "hobby" stage... 2 years ago.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:04 PM   #3
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It could definitely be a "big thing" and I wonder why Apple has been dragging its feet for so long.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM   #4
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Do it, Apple!
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:17 PM   #5
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Do it, Apple!
Do what?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:28 PM   #6
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I love how they try to throw gaming into one huge category. Mobile games are huge because people get bored and need to waste 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there. This is not the same as sitting down and playing hours of content. My mom and dad are always playing their little $5 handheld poker/whatever games. Are they mobile gamers? Should they just be considered gamers?

Phones games are a step above those $5 handhelds and shouldn't be put in the same category. People make a choice to sit down in front of their TV's to play a game for extended periods of times. People play angry birds when what they're out doing is boring them to death.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:48 PM   #7
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Do what?
Allow other apps to run on the ATV3+ so a JB solution can be found
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM   #8
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Why is he comparing sales figures of units sold in 2012 of a 2 year old media box to an almost 8 year old gaming console. The reason why Microsofts xbox sales are declining slowly is because everyone already owns an xbox, not to mention the next gen is literally right around the corner.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:08 PM   #9
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Add some external BT apple controllers for gaming- and we have a winner.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:09 PM   #10
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Then there would be a reason for buying a new A-TV...
The A5 chip in my 3rd Gen A-TV won't make it far^^
at least quad core graphics I think
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:08 PM   #11
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There are certain games that just cant be enjoyed on iOS, and Android like they can on the xbox, and Playstation.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ChrisTX View Post
There are certain games that just cant be enjoyed on iOS, and Android like they can on the xbox, and Playstation.
Probably, but I'd love to play some iOS games with a properly designed controller.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:24 PM   #13
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There are certain games that just cant be enjoyed on iOS, and Android like they can on the xbox, and Playstation.
You're right. The interfaces are different - touch screen vs. controller.

This is the same way that computer games are different from consoles. The input method of keyboard and mouse allows greater interaction than a controller.

Apple just has to allow any bluetooth controllers just like they have allowed bluetooth keyboards, and they have all input devices covered. (A player would use an iPad/iPhone with Airplay for the touch input)

Just make the hardware on par with the XBox 720 and Playstation 4, open up an Appstore, and this would be a real competitor.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:10 PM   #14
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It could definitely be a "big thing" and I wonder why Apple has been dragging its feet for so long.
To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:14 PM   #15
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To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
Controller design might take some time, or if they opt to use an iphone/ipod touch/ipad they'd need to carefully coordinate the software's timing I guess. I just expected an aTV app store while Jobs was still alive 2 years ago, and still we have nothing.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:03 PM   #16
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To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
...lol...
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:06 PM   #17
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To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:11 PM   #18
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Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.
Yes, may be true, but have you seen the level of graphics in iPhone OS games? Moreover, think about cost to the end user. I would be much more inclined to buy a $9.99 game that is very entertaining and has decent graphics, than a game for $59.99 (average game price for consoles) with "extreme" graphics (only the PC has extreme graphics in the end).

Moreover, $99 AppleTV with maybe a $49.99 controller sounds much cheaper than a $199 console (even with starter game involved; as you need $59.99 per new game).
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
While the PS3/X360 is faster than the iPad, the difference is no where near 10-20x. Those benches are not really fair (atom vs i5) and there have been complaints about driver quality with the SGX in Windows.

Carmack estimated that the iPad2 was about half as fast as the current consoles. So a quad core A6 with an improved graphics core should be able to complete with the current consoles quite nicely, if not over take them.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:37 PM   #21
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While the PS3/X360 is faster than the iPad, the difference is no where near 10-20x. Those benches are not really fair (atom vs i5) and there have been complaints about driver quality with the SGX in Windows.

Carmack estimated that the iPad2 was about half as fast as the current consoles. So a quad core A6 with an improved graphics core should be able to complete with the current consoles quite nicely, if not over take them.
Trust me its not close. The current consoles are still much faster.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 01:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by hvfsl View Post
While the PS3/X360 is faster than the iPad, the difference is no where near 10-20x. Those benches are not really fair (atom vs i5) and there have been complaints about driver quality with the SGX in Windows.

Carmack estimated that the iPad2 was about half as fast as the current consoles. So a quad core A6 with an improved graphics core should be able to complete with the current consoles quite nicely, if not over take them.
yes and the next gen ones are around 15-20x more powerful than the ones we have now, so they will still be far behind
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
Does that specific gpu chip have 4 cores ?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
specs are irrelevant to many people, just the result. You can make good looking games on iPhone/ipad now, so whatever they would release would probably be even more powerful than that, which is more than good enough for many games and people. Sure, it might not be able to do quite as complex a render as a console, but they won't have to work too hard to be able to own 1080p60. I don't see a problem unless they bust out with a 4k TV... which i'm hoping they do somehow. 1080p is pathetic. any true gamer should be gaming on a PC at higher resolutions than that anyway.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 04:43 PM   #25
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specs are irrelevant to many people, just the result. You can make good looking games on iPhone/ipad now, so whatever they would release would probably be even more powerful than that, which is more than good enough for many games and people. Sure, it might not be able to do quite as complex a render as a console, but they won't have to work too hard to be able to own 1080p60. I don't see a problem unless they bust out with a 4k TV... which i'm hoping they do somehow. 1080p is pathetic. any true gamer should be gaming on a PC at higher resolutions than that anyway.
Why is 1080p pathetic? If you knew anything about viewing distance relative to screen size you'd know that 1080p is more than adequate for most situations.

Let's assume you have a 50" TV and sit 10' from it. You would need a 100" TV before it would be worth having anything about 1080p resolution.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/09/1...o-screen-size/
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