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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:12 PM   #1
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Apple Hiring 'Maps Ground Truth Data Specialist' in Australia




Apple has posted a new job listing for a 'Maps Ground Truth Data Specialist' in Australia. The job listing, which was posted two days ago, comes several months after Apple came under fire for incorrect mapping data in central Australia.

The position will check "changes to map data, provide feedback on unique local map requirements, collect ground truth information, and evaluate competing products."

'Ground Truth' refers to information collected on location versus data collected remotely, such as satellite imagery. Wikipedia notes that the "collection of ground-truth data enables calibration of remote-sensing data, and aids in the interpretation and analysis of what is being sensed."
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Job Summary

Imagine what you could do here. At Apple, great ideas have a way of becoming great products, services, and customer experiences very quickly. Bring passion and dedication to your job and there's no telling what you could accomplish.

Key Qualifications

o Excellent attention to detail
o QA experience
o Familiarity with evaluating map quality
o Detailed knowledge of the unique features of your local area, including preferred driving routes, landmarks, and road names
o Bachelor's degree or equivalent
o Strong written and spoken English skills

Description

The Maps team is looking for people with knowledge of mapping, great testing skills, and local expertise to help us build better and better maps. In this position, you will be responsible for the quality of map data for your region. You will test changes to map data, provide feedback on unique local map requirements, collect ground truth information, and evaluate competing products.
Apple did eventually fix the issue in central Australia, but the company has been slow to fix many mapping issues even through the app's official "Report a Problem" button.

Thanks Marc!

Article Link: Apple Hiring 'Maps Ground Truth Data Specialist' in Australia
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:13 PM   #2
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Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:21 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
Oh, sure, I loved the idea of picking either 'no-turn-by-turn' or 'ads in my maps.'
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Oh, sure, I loved the idea of picking either 'no-turn-by-turn' or 'ads in my maps.'
I have yet to see ads in Gmaps. I only get Sponsored links. Which are minimal at best. Also, I meant the current full blown GMaps app instead of Apple's maps.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:29 PM   #5
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 10:17 PM   #6
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:46 AM   #7
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:30 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
I have yet to see ads in Gmaps. I only get Sponsored links. Which are minimal at best. Also, I meant the current full blown GMaps app instead of Apple's maps.
That choice was Google's terms for continuing to allow Apple to use their maps past this year. It has nothing to do with what's in their own app...Google had no incentive to make the iPhone maps nicer than the Android maps.

If Apple were to come crawling back to Google with their tail between their legs I daresay they'd quickly realize they have even more leverage than they did before.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
That choice was Google's terms for continuing to allow Apple to use their maps past this year. It has nothing to do with what's in their own app...Google had no incentive to make the iPhone maps nicer than the Android maps.

If Apple were to come crawling back to Google with their tail between their legs I daresay they'd quickly realize they have even more leverage than they did before.
Google had no incentive, yet they still did. True, but at this point given how bad Maps is and the huge reaction people had to Google Maps is pretty evident.

This time, Steve's ego got in the way.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 03:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
That choice was Google's terms for continuing to allow Apple to use their maps past this year. It has nothing to do with what's in their own app...Google had no incentive to make the iPhone maps nicer than the Android maps.
Glad you have the documents of the internal negotiations. Can you share them with us?
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Oh, sure, I loved the idea of picking either 'no-turn-by-turn' or 'ads in my maps.'
That's funny. My iPhone 4 map solutions are:
* no turn by turn (from apple)
* turn by turn (from google)
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:00 PM   #12
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That's funny. My iPhone 4 map solutions are:
* no turn by turn (from apple)
* turn by turn (from google)
Erm... wha?

Apple provides me with turn by turn and I live in Australia.

Like everyone, I loved google Maps, but have to say, the new one really sucks arse compared to Apple's offering.

Here's why

Turn by turn is really bad
"In 300 meters.... *silence* ..."
" In 1 km turn right onto eee-splay-nard"... and theres a no right turn sign...great.

It feels like an android app
- for some reason whenever I turn a corner in my car it asks me if I would like to submit feedback. Clever use of the accelerometer right there.
- The floating menus and thing disappearing all the time are annoying.

Lack of integration
- I find a business on google, and it asks me if I'd like to open it in google maps, i choose yes, it directs me to the app store, i tap on 'open app' and then it doesn't even open, nor can it find the business when i type it in.


In my experience, besides the lack of streetview (a great feature), Apple has pulled off the massive feat pretty well.
Yes there were bugs, but for me now, it gets me to where I want to go... Im yet to come across the scenario of being told to drive into a lake. Which Im sure will happen sometime soon.
Also, I ask siri for directions, it likes my voice, and I don't have to even look at the phone. Great hands free.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:45 PM   #13
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The original deal between Google and Apple did not include turn-by-turn. In the recent negotiations, Google would have included this feature for iPhone users in return for Google Latitide integration and better app branding for Maps. Apple said no. Google said no turn-by-turn. The rest is history.

Get your facts right before spouting nonsense.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 01:40 AM   #14
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lol...

more hiring ... in Aus....

umm.. ya... that may be a good idea :P WHy didn't you think of that *before* you decided to go into a Map service.

If Apple can't meet demand for their users, then don't do a Map service, until they are sure they can cope..

This is like watch dominoes falling over after you've knocked them..

Fun to watch this go down-hill.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by kwerle View Post
That's funny. My iPhone 4 map solutions are:
* no turn by turn (from apple)
* turn by turn (from google)
I'm talking about Google's plans when Apple maps didn't exist. You're talking about their plans after they exist. These are two very different things.

Obviously Google is going to change their plans when situations change. They're not stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macsrcool1234 View Post
They intentionally held nothing back. Were you under a rock when all the map discussions were around?
Ok, then enlighten me. You're saying Google accidentally just forgot to give turn-by-turn to Apple?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 10:20 AM   #16
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Oh, sure, I loved the idea of picking either 'no-turn-by-turn' or 'ads in my maps.'
I donít recall ads in the Maps of iOS4. Am I loosing it? There is turn by turn now. So what is the real reason you prefer to get lost?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 11:25 AM   #17
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I donít recall ads in the Maps of iOS4. Am I loosing it? There is turn by turn now. So what is the real reason you prefer to get lost?
Read the rest of the comments. We are talking about what Google wanted to do when their contract with Apple expired in 2013.

I wasn't entirely accurate, it wasn't "ads" they wanted, but Google did want more personal information about iPhone users and what they are doing in order to extract more advertising revenue out of them.

Apple said no, we don't want you to do that, and this is the core of why Apple decided to ditch Google's maps.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
Apple, please do us all a favor and do not listen to this suggestion.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:43 PM   #19
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Apple, please do us all a favor and do not listen to this suggestion.
Oh look! Someone who refuses to acknowledge a hard known fact...
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:03 PM   #20
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Towns that don't exist

So I was wondering, the problems with Maps in Australia are chronic (police have reported several life threatening situations where members of the public and even state authorities have been confused by mapping data provided by Apple, eg location of wild fires in relation to a town people have been order to evacuate)... but I had assumed it was a universal problem flowing from a structural design flaw, not something specific to Australia.

What I am talking about isn't the poor quality of low level data (eg, it can't find a fruit shop that is just around the corner from my house, yet gives a search result of somewhere 12,000 kms away).

There's a much bigger, more wore spread, significant problem.

Maps doesn't know where whole towns and even whole cities are.

And beyond that, it lists whole towns that do not exist.

The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.

So we end up with a map that shows me South East Queensland - say 250 km top to bottom.

I see a town marker for Brisbane (pop 1.5 million), and it is in the correct location.

I see a town marker for Moreton, about 50km north of Brisbane. There is no such town. There is a district called Moreton. So maybe it is based on that.

I see a town marker called Redland, located on North Stradbroke Island. There is no town of Redland. There is a district called Redland, and Straddie is in that district.

I see Noosa (a real town) with no marker. As I zoom down on Noosa, no marker ever appears. Until I get to some suburbs, and streets.

Anyway - what I'm getting at is, this seems a structural flaw with underlying design of mapping data, not a specific locality based problem.

Or are they going to literally go through every district and town in Australia? if so, crowdsource it, outsource it, call it WikiMaps and it will be fixed in a month.

But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.



But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
Great post mate—you describe the problem well. Since it seems to be a problem with the interpretation of Australian mapping data by Apple, not the data itself, I'd have thought this would have been a relatively simple thing for Apple to fix once they became aware of it. If however, they have to painstakingly correct this on a case-by-case basis, then something is very seriously flawed with their database and the way they built it, that it retains no distinction between towns and districts. What a mess.

I don't know the answer to your question, about whether this particular issue is specific to Australia. Maybe someone else can answer that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Apple did eventually fix the issue in central Australia, but the company has been slow to fix many mapping issues even through the app's official "Report a Problem" button.
That was in Mildura, not 'Central Australia'. Not that it matters to most of your readers—but hey, in an article about the accuracy of Apple's mapping data, you probably should get your own data correct.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 10:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
So I was wondering, the problems with Maps in Australia are chronic (police have reported several life threatening situations where members of the public and even state authorities have been confused by mapping data provided by Apple, eg location of wild fires in relation to a town people have been order to evacuate)... but I had assumed it was a universal problem flowing from a structural design flaw, not something specific to Australia.

What I am talking about isn't the poor quality of low level data (eg, it can't find a fruit shop that is just around the corner from my house, yet gives a search result of somewhere 12,000 kms away).

There's a much bigger, more wore spread, significant problem.

Maps doesn't know where whole towns and even whole cities are.

And beyond that, it lists whole towns that do not exist.

The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.

So we end up with a map that shows me South East Queensland - say 250 km top to bottom.

I see a town marker for Brisbane (pop 1.5 million), and it is in the correct location.

I see a town marker for Moreton, about 50km north of Brisbane. There is no such town. There is a district called Moreton. So maybe it is based on that.

I see a town marker called Redland, located on North Stradbroke Island. There is no town of Redland. There is a district called Redland, and Straddie is in that district.

I see Noosa (a real town) with no marker. As I zoom down on Noosa, no marker ever appears. Until I get to some suburbs, and streets.

Anyway - what I'm getting at is, this seems a structural flaw with underlying design of mapping data, not a specific locality based problem.

Or are they going to literally go through every district and town in Australia? if so, crowdsource it, outsource it, call it WikiMaps and it will be fixed in a month.

But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
I wonder where did Apple Maps got their data from?

Could it be from the media or the analysts or pundits.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropys View Post

Yes, that is the real problem. It misidentifies shires as a specific location and places them higher in the location hierarchy than a township that happens to have the same name.. So the centre of the shire of mildura is used as the location first, rather than the town of mildura when someone asks to go to mildura. Also try to find a location interstate using Siri. It will try its hardest to pretend nothing exists on the other side of the state border.

It should be a simple global fix, at least for Australia, but it has not happened after all this time.
They are trying to fix the problem and you are bring up history.

Oh look my glass is half empty.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 11:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
So I was wondering, the problems with Maps in Australia are chronic (police have reported several life threatening situations where members of the public and even state authorities have been confused by mapping data provided by Apple, eg location of wild fires in relation to a town people have been order to evacuate)... but I had assumed it was a universal problem flowing from a structural design flaw, not something specific to Australia.

What I am talking about isn't the poor quality of low level data (eg, it can't find a fruit shop that is just around the corner from my house, yet gives a search result of somewhere 12,000 kms away).

There's a much bigger, more wore spread, significant problem.

Maps doesn't know where whole towns and even whole cities are.

And beyond that, it lists whole towns that do not exist.

The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.

So we end up with a map that shows me South East Queensland - say 250 km top to bottom.

I see a town marker for Brisbane (pop 1.5 million), and it is in the correct location.

I see a town marker for Moreton, about 50km north of Brisbane. There is no such town. There is a district called Moreton. So maybe it is based on that.

I see a town marker called Redland, located on North Stradbroke Island. There is no town of Redland. There is a district called Redland, and Straddie is in that district.

I see Noosa (a real town) with no marker. As I zoom down on Noosa, no marker ever appears. Until I get to some suburbs, and streets.

Anyway - what I'm getting at is, this seems a structural flaw with underlying design of mapping data, not a specific locality based problem.

Or are they going to literally go through every district and town in Australia? if so, crowdsource it, outsource it, call it WikiMaps and it will be fixed in a month.

But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
Maps is a POS - that's the way it is right now. To me, the pace of improvement isn't nearly fast enough. This is a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it, and that's what I expected Apple to do - but they fell short. Maybe they didn't think it was all that bad? I don't know. They have the cash, assign $1M to each larger country and have all the data fixed, can't be that hard?

Each major country needs a small team of people that compare with OSM data and fix everything they can, and another ground team that runs around and checks things. Apple could do so much if they just added a "help us fix maps" app to collect data - give it a nice UI and soon Apple maps will be better than anything out there.

And forgodssake take control of the data. Licensing data doesn't cut it. Nokia Maps is worth $8Bn (which is what all of Nokia is worth now but that's besides the point), Apple has 130Bn in cash lying around, let's go fix this....

The maps data here in Thailand is, unsurprisingly, pretty useless. Search doesn't work at all.

But there's also user interface issues that seem like they'd be easy to fix. Only they haven't been fixed. The level of detail that is shown at a given zoom level is not enough - I was recently trying to orient myself in Hong Kong, and in Apple maps I had two choices, both bad: Either I'd zoom in all the way down to a street to see the street name - and lose all context of where I am; or I'd zoom out but wouldn't see any street names for smaller streets. This is just dumb. They could easily just copy the "level of detail" algorithm from gmaps and be done with it.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlgo View Post
It sure seemed like it was, perhaps in a rage. Surely many Apple employees knew that maps was not ready but were afraid to say anything.
Forstall was in charge of Maps. He is now gone. FWIW.

While I don't like to argue with trolls, no matter how bad Apple maps is right now Apple has no choice in the matter. To quote Jobs "Apple didn't suddenly get into search; Google got into mobile phones".

It should be obvious that you can't have a key technology of your product be controlled by your main competitor?! Is BMW going to use Mercedes engines? Is Chevy going to use Ford engines? I mean.. really. It's obvious.

Did we expect Apple to do a lot better with their own maps? Yes we did. Did they have a choice to stick with Google? Nope.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 11:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.
Based on information provided by the local government etc. so perhaps you should start the griping there
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Oh look! Someone who refuses to acknowledge a hard known fact...
Apple Maps works fine for me. If I didn't have it, I'd be annoyed.
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