[DECIDED Ford Escape Titanium, 2.0L I4, 4WD] In the market for new car (Mini-SUV)

Why didn't the Subaru Forester make your list? The new model is excellent.

i'd start by eliminating the Santa-Fe, as you said you feel unstable in it.
after that, throw away the rogue - it's a nice enough vehicle, but low on power.

now it comes to how much you get for your money. how much do you need to add to get what you want on the escape / sportage?
personally i'd narrow the list to the escape vs. tiguan. ford has some nice engines, and the ecoboost are a lot of fun. the tiguan handles very nicely, but if they skimp on equipment, i'd go for the ford.

plus you'd want to get the XT on the forester, as the other engines are quite powerless and anaemic, especially when considering it's an SUV.

edit: if i understand your budget is around $30K - have you considered the new jeep cherokee? for that amount you could get top spec's if im not mistaken

Have you checked out the Equinox/Terrain? My mom loved her 2006 Equinox and she loves her 2013 'Nox.

What features are you looking for specifically? You need to balance desired features and budget. I went through the same thing 2 years ago, though I was comparing slightly larger vehicles (Outback, Edge). I ended up with an Outback in Premium trim and haven't looked back. When it comes to build quality, I've had ZERO issues. The Edge had a higher cost of entry to get the features I wanted, the Outback was more reasonable ($5K less IIRC) for relatively comparable features, excepting My Ford Touch since Subaru had no comparable system.

As for Subaru reliability, you got a bad one, simple as that. It was certainly not representative of the brand. They also take care of their customers, the factory extended warranty includes road-hazard warranty on the factory tires (not included in standard warranty) and if you have to replace one tire with more than a certain amount of wear, they'll pro-rate ALL FOUR (most road-hazard warranties cover only the damaged tire). My 2011 Outback runs perfectly, gets GREAT mileage considering the vehicle (I've gotten 33 MPG highway and I was stuck in traffic for part of the trip) and was comfortable for my 5'11" 260 lb body for 4 hours non-stop. Granted, I'm only at 25,000 miles, but I know of others of the same generation at 80,000 miles and still going great.

I got the Outback with the 2.5, even though I was replacing a 200 HP sedan I don't feel it's all THAT anemic. Sure, I can't beat EVERYONE off the line, but it gets the job done. It's not ALWAYS about power, with more power often comes less MPG and sometimes higher insurance rates. Also, the CVT in the Outback does a nice job keeping the engine in the power band.

Had a Volkswagon once (Passat, not the Tiguan). Loved the ride/handling. Maintenance was VERY expensive. Factor that in.

senseless said:

Why didn't the Subaru Forester make your list? The new model is excellent.

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It's the only one I'd pick on the modern station wagon category which we're talking about.

eawmp1 said:

Had a Volkswagon once (Passat, not the Tiguan). Loved the ride/handling. Maintenance was VERY expensive. Factor that in.

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Maintenance in general is expensive nowadays. I have a 2012 Audi S4 and a 2012 Audi Q5 and the labor rates at Audi are the same as the Honda and Toyota dealer in the same automall. While I would look at maintenance its going to be pricey in general unless you are skilled/have enough time to do your own maintenance.

That said I'd go with the VW, the drivetrain in that car has been around for years and is quite refined and rock solid.

I would go for the Ford Escape,

My aunt had a 2001 Ford Escape, 2005 Ford Escape, and most recently a 2011 Ford Escape.

I rented a 2011 V6 model on a vacation in Tallahassee Florida, Loved it. Felt stable, tons of power even with the AWD, I think its 270ish? Got over 25MPG most of the usage, and if my aunts Fords are any indication, they're rock solid reliable.
If you want to buy American, Ford is easily the best choice.

G51989 said:

If you want to buy American, Ford is easily the best choice.

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Hard to distinguish "American" vs. "Import" these days. It was discussed in another thread I believe. In short, a Subaru Outback could be considered as "American" as a Ford even though Subaru is a Japanese car company. The vehicle is built in Indiana, out of 50% US/Canada parts content and only 30% Japanese parts (a large part of that is the engine and transmission, which are Japan-sourced).

Yes, the Forester mentioned before is built in Japan, but I wouldn't buy the 2014 as it's the first year of the redesign and I've driven the 2013 style, it doesn't compare to the US-built Outback.

hallux said:

Hard to distinguish "American" vs. "Import" these days. It was discussed in another thread I believe. In short, a Subaru Outback could be considered as "American" as a Ford even though Subaru is a Japanese car company. The vehicle is built in Indiana, out of 50% US/Canada parts content and only 30% Japanese parts (a large part of that is the engine and transmission, which are Japan-sourced).

Yes, the Forester mentioned before is built in Japan, but I wouldn't buy the 2014 as it's the first year of the redesign and I've driven the 2013 style, it doesn't compare to the US-built Outback.

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I distinguish American vs Import by the companies HQ/originated from. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are American( though Chrysler is owned by Fiat). Subaru is Japanese.

hallux said:

Hard to distinguish "American" vs. "Import" these days. It was discussed in another thread I believe. In short, a Subaru Outback could be considered as "American" as a Ford even though Subaru is a Japanese car company. The vehicle is built in Indiana, out of 50% US/Canada parts content and only 30% Japanese parts (a large part of that is the engine and transmission, which are Japan-sourced).

Yes, the Forester mentioned before is built in Japan, but I wouldn't buy the 2014 as it's the first year of the redesign and I've driven the 2013 style, it doesn't compare to the US-built Outback.

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I am fully aware of this, however I consider if your going to buy " American " Ford is still the best option.

I'm not a huge fan of Suburus, I've owned one, wasn't really impressed. If they offered a V8 option, sure. But they don't so lack of power in the non turbo models is a big problem for me. My personal standard is that my daily driver will have no less than 300 horsepower.

hallux said:

Hard to distinguish "American" vs. "Import" these days. It was discussed in another thread I believe. In short, a Subaru Outback could be considered as "American" as a Ford even though Subaru is a Japanese car company. The vehicle is built in Indiana, out of 50% US/Canada parts content and only 30% Japanese parts (a large part of that is the engine and transmission, which are Japan-sourced).

Yes, the Forester mentioned before is built in Japan, but I wouldn't buy the 2014 as it's the first year of the redesign and I've driven the 2013 style, it doesn't compare to the US-built Outback.

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The Escape should be fairly "American" although the 2.0 EcoBoost is still being produced in Spain and won't be moving to Cleveland Engine until next year. With that said, it's an American company, built in a UAW plant in Lousiville, KY, with a fairly high domestic parts content so I think it's a safe bet if you want to buy American.

With that said, my 2011 Escape has been an excellent vehicle although the new one is completely different. I think the 6 speed auto tranny is the only shared part.

Anyhow the new Escape is a nice little crossover and the 2.0 EcoBoost pulls hard while still returning decent MPG. Also a 3500 lb tow package is available for little extra although I believe that does delete the "kick your foot under to open" tailgate. The tow package can come in handy though and is great if you like using a bike rack.

I bought a Kia Sorento (not on your list, but I think it's the next model up from the Sportage) a few years ago, and I love it. I had also looked at a SanteFe, which is nearly the same car. Both are built less than an hour from my house, which I also liked. I test drove the Sportage, but found it just a smidge too small for what I was looking for.

I also test-drive the Rogue. The thing that turned me off of it was that the center console had nowhere to put anything except cups. They have since added a small hole where you can kind of put an iPhone in sideways, but when I test-drove, nothing. When I drive distance, I like to empty my pockets and put everything in the console. So the Rogue was off the list just for that.

I have also driven an Escape, and quite liked it.

G51989 said:

I am fully aware of this, however I consider if your going to buy " American " Ford is still the best option.

I'm not a huge fan of Suburus, I've owned one, wasn't really impressed. If they offered a V8 option, sure. But they don't so lack of power in the non turbo models is a big problem for me. My personal standard is that my daily driver will have no less than 300 horsepower.

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And how far do you go on a tank of gas? Even NOT babying it I can go at least 400 miles if I let it go to 'E' for daily driving, on a 17 gallon tank and can go better than 500 on the highway.

I noted it before, I traded a 200-HP sedan for my 175-HP Outback and even though the Outback is heavier with more driveline drag (AWD vs FWD) I don't feel I lost those 25 horses as the CVT programming keeps the engine in the sweet spot better than a regular AT.

Why must it always be about horsepower? I don't feel like the Outback is underpowered. Sure, it won't win any stoplight drag races and it might take an extra 300 feet to get to highway speed, but it's still a great vehicle IMO.

Other than no V-8, what weren't you impressed with? What model? Outback, Legacy and Tribeca (no longer made) are the top of the heap, I'm not a fan of the Impreza or the Forester (though I haven't driven a '14 yet) as the Impreza is too small for my tastes and the Forester is too tall for my tastes.

We're getting a bit OT. If I had to pick from the list in the OP I'd take a serious look at the Escape or the Sportage (my dad has the last gen which I'm not impressed with, the new ones don't have the best styling but look like an improvement). I still encourage you to look at an Outback, price is competitive with the Escape, though it can get near $40K if fully loaded. One vehicle is a small sample size to consider when looking at quality or reliability of an entire brand. I know of many more VERY happy Outback owners than just myself, my brother has 2.

Are you buying or leasing? How long are you keeping the car?

Tiguan SEL without a doubt. Abs

Tiguan SEL without a doubt. Absolutely gorgeous small SUV.

What more do you want that the SEL doesn't offer? It has everything you could want.

The Tiguan is the only small SUV that still has SUV proportions in a world of ugly wagon-looking crossovers.

Just keep this is mind, with the Tiguan you get a small premium vehicle in a market that wants the biggest junk for the cheapest price possible...take advantage of the fact VW still realizes there's a market for something small, lean, and premium.

EDIT: this all is assuming you are looking at the '13 SEL...the '14 SEL is unfortunately moving downmarket to basically SE specs to make way for the new '14 R-line...the VW website is updated to show '14s now.

EDIT 2: Make no mistake, with the VW you're paying for the phenomenal engine and drivetrain, which is worth it.

One thing I like about the Forester is the good rear visibility. Some of the newer SUVS go for raked window styling over visibility which makes them very difficult to park.

hallux said:

And how far do you go on a tank of gas? Even NOT babying it I can go at least 400 miles if I let it go to 'E' for daily driving, on a 17 gallon tank and can go better than 500 on the highway.
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Well, during the summer time I've been daily driving my 2012 Corvette Grand Sport, I average about 20-24mpg if I keep my foot out of it, which I think is pretty good.

I noted it before, I traded a 200-HP sedan for my 175-HP Outback and even though the Outback is heavier with more driveline drag (AWD vs FWD) I don't feel I lost those 25 horses as the CVT programming keeps the engine in the sweet spot better than a regular AT.

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Fair enough, I personally won't purchase a car with a CVT, I hate them. Give me a gear stick and a clutch. And I would perfer the 6 speed automatic in the escape, I think it would be a more reliable unit long term.

Why must it always be about horsepower? I don't feel like the Outback is underpowered. Sure, it won't win any stoplight drag races and it might take an extra 300 feet to get to highway speed, but it's still a great vehicle IMO.

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A car like a new Outback isn't underpowered by any means, but it doesn't have excess power, and thats what I typically look for, and I feel more power helps your driving experience.

Other than no V-8, what weren't you impressed with? What model? Outback, Legacy and Tribeca (no longer made) are the top of the heap, I'm not a fan of the Impreza or the Forester (though I haven't driven a '14 yet) as the Impreza is too small for my tastes and the Forester is too tall for my tastes.

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This was a long time ago, it was a 2000 Forester that I went in on a lease with my College roomate, we had it for 2 years. Can't say I was really impressed with it, that engine was just awful, even with the 5 speed manual transmission it just didn't have any torque, it had a bland and boring interior with no center armrest, and it had its share of problems going back to the dealer. It wasn't a bad car, it was pretty quiet, build quality was great. But it was just far to bleh for my tastes, after that. I pretty much dont look at subies anymore. Maybe if they had V8 or H6 Turbo option, I'd go back. After the lease was up I just bought a 1995 Ford Thunderbird V8, used and fully loaded. Which I found to be much faster and comfortable. The reason I like V8s? I love the low end torque. Now of course even a little 2.0 CVT Subie could about match the Thunderbirds 0-60 time, which had a 4.6 liter V8. But this was 2001.

The only subie I would really consider would be an STi.


Back on Topic: I actually did consider the new escape as a Winter daily driver, I test drove one and thought it was great for a little 4 banger, build quality was very very good, best warranty in the business. And its a Ford, so you know it will be very reliable and long lasting.

I've heard a lot of good things about the ecoboost escapes. We test drove one and the engine felt good, especially since we live at a high elevation. I've had good experience with fords in the past. If you wait until they have clearance events 0% financing is usually available. I've looked at VWs and they don't offer great financing so that can factor into overall cost.

COrocket said:

I've looked at VWs and they don't offer great financing so that can factor into overall cost.

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How did you arrive at that conclusion? We got my wife's new '12 Beetle last summer at zero percent for 60 months and also my new '13 Jetta in December for zero percent and 60 months. VW is doing 0% for 60 again now, and often does 0% for even 72 months...and not at year end only, last summer when '13 CCs first hit lots they did 0% for 72 months even with '12s still on the lots.

VW constantly does 0% for long terms. It's rare that they aren't doing it, actually.

COrocket said:

I've heard a lot of good things about the ecoboost escapes. We test drove one and the engine felt good, especially since we live at a high elevation. I've had good experience with fords in the past. If you wait until they have clearance events 0% financing is usually available. I've looked at VWs and they don't offer great financing so that can factor into overall cost.

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I've owned lots of Fords, I typically don't like American cars all that much, despite living in America. But Ford has always been the exception, starting in the early 2000s, they started to think a little different, and they try to be better.

Not only does Ford offer better payment plans and rates, I think they're a damn sight better built than the new VWs

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puma1552 said:

How did you arrive at that conclusion? We got my wife's new '12 Beetle last summer at zero percent for 60 months and also my new '13 Jetta in December for zero percent and 60 months. VW is doing 0% for 60 again now, and often does 0% for even 72 months...and not at year end only, last summer when '13 CCs first hit lots they did 0% for 72 months even with '12s still on the lots.

VW constantly does 0% for long terms. It's rare that they aren't doing it, actually.

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I've noticed that really depends on the area you live in as far as VW goes.