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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:22 PM   #176
ck2875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
You must have been living under a rock if you never used a Palm Pilot with its associated "apps."

Here's a link to a March 2002 review of the Treo 180, where you will find terms like "SMS app", "apps list", "core apps," and just "apps".

http://the-gadgeteer.com/2002/03/12/...eo_180_review/

The term has not only been used for a long time to as a shortcut for "applications," but it was specifically used to denote the little programs you run on a PDA, or even on Smartphones (to the extent a circa 2002 treo counts as a smartphone).

to be fair, you are arguing the wrong point. they didn't trademark "app" but only "app store."

it doesn't matter that people may have referred to their applications, programs, and/or tampon applicator sticks as "apps" before the app store. all that matters is that Apple brought the term "app store" into the public conscious. a judge doesn't care how generic a term is so long as it has acquired sufficient secondary meaning.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:26 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by ck2875 View Post
to be fair, you are arguing the wrong point. they didn't trademark "app" but only "app store."

it doesn't matter that people may have referred to their applications, programs, and/or tampon applicator sticks as "apps" before the app store. all that matters is that Apple brought the term "app store" into the public conscious. a judge doesn't care how generic a term is so long as it has acquired sufficient secondary meaning.
to be fair, he was referring to the many posts in this thread that are suggesting apple coined/created the term app.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:30 PM   #178
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apple is first to mark the words so they can defend themselves.

but it generic, shut up, windows is pretty generic as well. Would Microsoft allows any company to use window for software name? No. Confusion will happen if allowed.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:31 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Avalontor View Post
to be fair, he was referring to the many posts in this thread that are suggesting apple coined/created the term app.
i read his post and respectfully disagree. i don't see why people are all a hot mess over the term "apps" as that wasn't the term trademarked.

Last edited by ck2875; Mar 21, 2011 at 09:37 PM.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:33 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by yanksrock100 View Post
The only reason people even call it an App is because of apple.
Personally, I've been calling applications "Apps" or "App" since I was 12.

Additionally, on my 3.5" disks, I wrote on the label "Apps" for a disk that contain "Applications". Back in 1980s...
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Last edited by Stella; Mar 21, 2011 at 09:40 PM.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:34 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
That is patently false. Install Windows 95, go to start, then run, then type in explorer. Hit enter. Go to C:, Windows. Sort by type. Find any .exe file, they should all be bunched up together. Now go to the "Type" column and see what is written there. Hint, it's not program and it starts with a capital A.



Oh look, an article from 1989 describing OS/2's rise and using the word Application about 3 dozens times :

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jzo...page&q&f=false

Again guys : Web Apps. 90s. I was writing them in Perl at the time.
And I had just graduated high school at the time. My point is the term 'app' in general and 'app store' in particular wasn't used by laymen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full of Win View Post
A year before apple had an app store. Shows it is not Apples term, very good.
And yet the term apps never gained traction with the general public until that time. Funny, huh?

http://www.google.com/trends?q=apps%...ate=all&sort=0
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:35 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
It would work as an argument if the fact there was another store like the container store but really none are out there.
Um, Storables? Direct competitor of The Container Store. There are also numerous online container/organizing stores.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:37 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by RebeccaL View Post
The issue is here is that Apple has a trademark on the term "App Store". Just like Microsoft has a trademark on Windows. Even if they are generic terms being trademarked make it illegal for other companies to use them.
This.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:38 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by nonameowns View Post
apple is first to mark the words so they can defend themselves.

but it generic, shut up, windows is pretty generic as well. Would Microsoft allows any company to use window for software name? No. Confusion will happen if allowed.
No they aren't. And again - what confusion? Show me an iDevice that can run anything but Apple App Store apps. Or show me a non iDevice that can run iOS apps?

There's no confusion because there's absolutely NO way to steal business away or cause confusion as to which app goes to what device. A small percentage might try and fail to buy the right app. That happens now anyway just within the Apple ecostructure alone...
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:38 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by rococoloco View Post


Ubuntu has had a Software Center long before Apple brought out the iPhone and wanted to control what people installed, then the transition to the desktop.

Interestingly, Ubuntu has Launchpad, Lion now has a Launchpad, while they are both very different things, Ubuntu being a bug and version tracker tool, they are both a distinct moniker in a related field.

Canonical will probably not sue Apple.
Yet it's not called the Ubuntu App Store. Even though it's a store for Applications.

So, apparently, 'Ubuntu App Store' wasn't actually the most logical name for their software store at the time... Gee, I wonder what happened between then and now that changed that?
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:39 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoofenshmirtzEI View Post
Um, Storables? Direct competitor of The Container Store. There are also numerous online container/organizing stores.
You guys are confusing a trademark of a product with a name of a business. You can have a completely generic company name so as long as there no other company with the same name in the state it's filed in.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:41 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macinthetosh View Post
This.
Except you can't trademark generic terms to begin with, so the question of whether the trademark really exists would be decided in the courts.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:41 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Ironworker808 View Post
And I had just graduated high school at the time. My point is the term 'app' in general and 'app store' in particular wasn't used by laymen.



And yet the term apps never gained traction with the general public until that time. Funny, huh?

http://www.google.com/trends?q=apps%...ate=all&sort=0

So if App Store is the brand name, please tell me what the generic name is.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:45 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by chstout View Post
You guys are confusing a trademark of a product with a name of a business. You can have a completely generic company name so as long as there no other company with the same name in the state it's filed in.
But The Container Store is a registered trademark.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:46 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
No they aren't. And again - what confusion? Show me an iDevice that can run anything but Apple App Store apps. Or show me a non iDevice that can run iOS apps?

There's no confusion because there's absolutely NO way to steal business away or cause confusion as to which app goes to what device.
That's not how the law sees it.

And that's the point here.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:46 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by chstout View Post
So if App Store is the brand name, please tell me what the generic name is.
google "trademark secondary meaning"

the more you know (shooting star):

"A descriptive mark is a mark that directly describes, rather than suggests, a characteristic or quality of the underlying product (e.g. its color, odor, function, dimensions, or ingredients). For example, "Holiday Inn," "All Bran," and "Vision Center" all describe some aspect of the underlying product or service (respectively, hotel rooms, breakfast cereal, optical services). They tell us something about the product. Unlike arbitrary or suggestive marks, descriptive marks are not inherently distinctive and are protected only if they have acquired "secondary meaning." Descriptive marks must clear this additional hurdle because they are terms that are useful for describing the underlying product, and giving a particular manufacturer the exclusive right to use the term could confer an unfair advantage.

A descriptive mark acquires secondary meaning when the consuming public primarily associates that mark with a particular producer, rather than the underlying product."
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:46 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by benthewraith View Post
Except you can't trademark generic terms to begin with,
This is wrong. You CAN trademark generic terms in a specific industry.

And, of course, AppStore is not generic.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:46 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoofenshmirtzEI View Post
But The Container Store is a registered trademark.
Read the second sentence in that quote of yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
This is wrong. You CAN trademark generic terms in a specific industry.

And, of course, AppStore is not generic.
Which part.

From Harvard Law:
Quote:
Generic terms are not protected by trademark law because they are simply too useful for identifying a particular product. Giving a single manufacturer control over use of the term would give that manufacturer too great a competitive advantage. Under some circumstances, terms that are not originally generic can become generic over time (a process called "genericity"), and thus become unprotected.

Last edited by dejo; Mar 22, 2011 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts. Please use multi-quote.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:50 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by chstout View Post
So if App Store is the brand name, please tell me what the generic name is.
In the public mind, I would say that the term App Store is generic. But Apple trademarked the term and has been using it as a brand since before it became generic.

Apple made the term generic. That's what their fighting for.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:51 PM   #195
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Oh.
This discussion again -___-


Amazon that was a *itch move. LOL
Hopefully Apple wins this AND the trademark. Next --->


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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:52 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by DoofenshmirtzEI View Post
But The Container Store is a registered trademark.
Wow, I didn't realize that, but you're right. Thanks for correcting me without calling me an idiot, telling me to shut up, or various other things people can't seem to refrain from on this board.

Still, I don't see how that can hold up as an argument in court by saying, "Yes, MS and Amazon have a point, but other people have gotten away with it, so why can't we?". Maybe also there was no one to contest it at the time. We'll see what happens here, but if Apple wins, it establishes a bad precedent.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:52 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Apple can have their Apple App Store and Amazon can have their amazon appstore

No one will be confused. And the term app store shouldn't be trademarked.
Although "App Store" and Appstore" are written differently, they sound the same when spoken, and maybe that's why Apple feels they have a case here.

Nobody was using any form of the word "App Store" until Apple used it for the iPhone.

For others who said that the word "Apps" has been around a long time, you're absolutely right that it has, but it hasn't been used to describe a place to download applications in the same way. Usually it was said that you can download apps from "an FTP server", or "from the developer's website"...I think TuCows called their files a "library" or a "repository".

I'm all for Apple defending the trademark that they created - this is very similar as others have said, to trademarked name brands being used generically for that type of item - Coke (soft drink), Kleenex (tissue), Xerox (copier, or even just a copy)
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:52 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by benthewraith View Post
Which part.

From Harvard Law:
you can't selectively quote generic trademarks without talking about descriptive marks and secondary meaning.

edit: well technically you can, but you would be wrong.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:54 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by nec207 View Post
Really how so? It seem windows is doing the copying that see.

-apple first mouse
-apple first GUI
-apple trash/windows recycle bin
-apple widgets/windows gadgets
-apple apps / others makers use the word apps
-apple iphoto and itunes / windows crude way of trying to copy.

None of these things windows invented first!!!

Next it be windows ipad windows 8 OS and windows 8 the dock !!
Steve actually stole the mouse idea from Xerox PARC while on a tour. Same with many of the GUI ideas. Xerox just didn't have the money or production to create the products at the time. What isn't stolen/copied from someone else anyways though? It's evolution.
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Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:55 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by benthewraith View Post
Which part.

From Harvard Law:
And why is the term supposedly generic? Because Apple created the industry. Through their own efforts, they succeeded in achieving a dominant position.

The law does not penalize success like that, and certainly not within three or four years of creating the term.
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