if they terminate your contract because your violated it, you still owe the ETF.
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AT&T Cracking Down on Unauthorized Tethering
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if they terminate your contract because your violated it, you still owe the ETF.
it's not the same concept because moving the box or splitting the signal coming out of the box is allowed. They even have multiple signals coming out of the box so you can send them multiple places from the single receiver. You aren't stealing service doing this, you are using the service as intended.
That's completely different than stealing the services of tethering.
The never offered unlimited data that includes tethering, they only offered unlimited data that prohibits tethering. The only miscalculation was to expect their customers to not steal service from them.
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To all the naysayers. Have you ever checked your work email from your iPhone? If so, and you are on a personal plan then you are also stealing a service.
That doesn't apply to this case. They aren't changing anything, they are holding you to your end of the contract, which says you can't tether. If you are terminated for breaking the contract, you still pay the ETF.
The bogus "warning text and email" did not say they would terminate your contract. They said they'd auto enroll you in a different plan. Which they can do but
I understand that not everyone has taken contract law classes and knows how to wade thorough the legal b.s. but it's pretty clear.
Really, well then the argument could be that we are using a feature built into the iPhone and using it as intended by the manufacturer. This is why the copyright office agreed that jailbreaking is legal, because you are just accessing additional features on your phone and they also determined that you cannot be told what you can and cannot access and use on a device you own.
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Your quote doesnt cover the scenario you describe - it covers AT&T changing their terms of service. Which makes sense, if AT&T changes terms, you should be able to have an out should you not agree to the new terms. However the reverse would not apply because legally you cannot offer up new terms - there is nothing you can negotiate since AT&T is the gate holder.
I'm going to dig up my first contract for the iPhone 1 when I had AT&T and I bet "tethering" isn't mentioned because it wasn't really an option at the time so it never explicitly allowed it or explicitly prohibited it.
Next B.S. argument.
No, it says that they cannot change rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your Services. So basically, if they change ANYTHING then you can cancel.
If english your second language? Because the first sentence clearly states that they can change anything they want whenever they want but later in the paragraph it states that if they do you can terminate your contract without any penalty.
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it's pretty clear that the customer initiated the change in plans by choosing to tether. It's quite clearly stated that tethering requires a plan change and the associated monthly fee.
If AT&T changed someone who hasn't already broken their plan to either the tethering plan or a capped plan, then they could certainly terminate without paying the fee. But that's not the case here.
but they didn't change anything, you did. They even give you the option of not changing by returning to following the terms you agreed to. If you don't, you have changed plans. They certainly would be within their rights to retroactively bill you under the tethering plan from the day you first broke your contract and started tethering.
I'm not sure that matters either way unless you still using that EDGE only iPhone. Certainly you have since upgraded to a subsidized phone which required signing your current two year agreement.
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Original AT&T Terms of Service for the Original iPhone (Circa 2007) is located here": http://www.apple.com/legal/iphone/us/terms/service_att.html
Now show me where it prohibits tethering? Oh, it doesn't? How strange.
Contract Law 101, anything not explicitly stated or prohibited is allowed. Especially when you can legally JB your phone to access additional options.
You do not understand my point. If you tether, you are changing the terms. Not AT&T. You are arguing the exact same thing I am.
They are (and can) define different things at different parts of their plans. The first scenario likely defines actions that they can do if you violate. The second scenario covers their changes.
all it says one way or the other about it is
You didn't include the terms of your data plan.
Here. I'll save you some time
From 2007 Original iPhone Terms of Service:
"You agree that you will not make any modifications to the Equipment or programming to enable the Equipment to operate on any other system. "
This was found to be an illegal and unenforceable policy by the US Copyright office.Users can modify the device as they see fit.
Where does it mention data services at all in the Original Terms of Service back when they offered Unlimited Data? It doesn't mention them in detail at all.
Another invalid argument. In order to change a plan, the customer needs to explicitly state that they wish to change the plan, in writing and therefore sign another Terms of Service.
If not, AT&T could the customer initiated a change from a low 2GB plan to a higher plan simply because they went over 2GB a few times.
That's from the current Terms of Service. Not the 2007 TOS when they offered unlimited data. That was the Full TOS from 2007.
"You agree that you will not make any modifications to the Equipment or programming to enable the Equipment to operate on any other system. "
This was found to be an illegal and unenforceable policy by the US Copyright office.Users can modify the device as they see fit.
Where does it mention data services at all in the Original Terms of Service back when they offered Unlimited Data? It doesn't mention them in detail at all.
Another invalid argument. In order to change a plan, the customer needs to explicitly state that they wish to change the plan, in writing and therefore sign another Terms of Service.
If not, AT&T could the customer initiated a change from a low 2GB plan to a higher plan simply because they went over 2GB a few times.
That's from the current Terms of Service. Not the 2007 TOS when they offered unlimited data. That was the Full TOS from 2007.
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no they can't, they can just charge for the extra data like the agreement says.
The agreement says
and
So you've agreed both that your plan doesn't allow tethering and that you have to be on a data plan. If you tether, you have to be on a data plan that allows tethering. By tethering, you've made the change.
no, the TOS you quoted referred to the dataplan, You haven't posted the TOS of the dataplan. And, like I said earlier, unless you are still using the original EDGE iPhone 1, you have agreed to new TOS when you bought the newer, subsidized one. The one that has the ETF associated with it.
your plan isn't "specifically designated for tethering usage", when you got your current iPhone, you agreed to TOS that said both that you can't tether without a plan like that and that you agree to have a data plan for the life of your service. You are grandfathered into the dataplan, but not to the TOS. You agree to new TOS each time you get a new subsidized phone.
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Original data plan TOS (2007) http://www.tosback.org/version.php?vid=437
And who says my phone was ever subsidized? I never said that. It's very possible that I purchased the Original,3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 outright meaning I'd be grandfathered in to both the 2007 TOS and Data Plan since you do not sign a new contract if you do not get a subsidized phone. If you don't believe me go talk to an AT&T rep at the store.
And who says my phone was ever subsidized? I never said that. It's very possible that I purchased the Original,3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 outright meaning I'd be grandfathered in to both the 2007 TOS and Data Plan since you do not sign a new contract if you do not get a subsidized phone. If you don't believe me go talk to an AT&T rep at the store.
you still have to agree to the TOS to activate the phone. And if you paid full price, why are you worried about the ETF that exists to cover the cost of the subsidy?
And now that you have the original data plan, you might want to read it.
You just proved your original plan explicitly prohibits tethering.
untrue. It's still them changing the terms and plan. they can make some argument that you brought it on yourself through violating the TOS, but it's still them making the change.
As far as the ETF goes, this raymond guy just /threaded all of you with the contract snippet he posted. AT&T might still try to charge you, but as far as the contract I'd say it's right there in black and white.
S*it, I just checked my work email today...I stole from AT&T
you did when you brought it up by saying
you claim to know contract law, but apparently don't actually read the contracts. The last one you posted proves you were wrong.
As Alandail noted, the tethering prohibition is part of the data plan TOS. It has nothing to do with the voice plan as it is not applicable.
Nobody who currently has an AT&T iPhone with a data plan has not agreed to this.
I have an original iPhone on the original iPhone data plan, and I can not contractually tether on that.
I would also add Raymond is wrong on the termination issue as well. The point he quoted is if they change the terms and terminate you, you can get out of the ETF.
If you violate the contract, you do not get out of the ETF.
Raymond, your understanding of contracts is very naive. Saying that anything not explicitly listed in a contract is valid is absolutely not correct.
Not super criminals but criminals none the less. How could you not consider that a crime? That is really odd.
If someone sells something and you circumvent their systems to steal it for free, how is that not a crime? It is disconcerting that lack of morals that people seem to have these days.
Nobody who currently has an AT&T iPhone with a data plan has not agreed to this.
I have an original iPhone on the original iPhone data plan, and I can not contractually tether on that.
I would also add Raymond is wrong on the termination issue as well. The point he quoted is if they change the terms and terminate you, you can get out of the ETF.
If you violate the contract, you do not get out of the ETF.
Raymond, your understanding of contracts is very naive. Saying that anything not explicitly listed in a contract is valid is absolutely not correct.
Not super criminals but criminals none the less. How could you not consider that a crime? That is really odd.
If someone sells something and you circumvent their systems to steal it for free, how is that not a crime? It is disconcerting that lack of morals that people seem to have these days.
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This age old topic is still going on?
Here isnthe truth. Tethering without an AT&T plan is not illegal but it is a breachnin the Terms of Service you signed.
Therefor your service could be terminated at any time or you could be well charge the appropiate plans.
That's it. End of discussion.
Now as per why AT&T is no tracking us, well that's a whole new dilemma. Maybe they got tired of free riders on their network. Or perhaps they could never well detect before when you tethered and they now can.
Who knows.
Here isnthe truth. Tethering without an AT&T plan is not illegal but it is a breachnin the Terms of Service you signed.
Therefor your service could be terminated at any time or you could be well charge the appropiate plans.
That's it. End of discussion.
Now as per why AT&T is no tracking us, well that's a whole new dilemma. Maybe they got tired of free riders on their network. Or perhaps they could never well detect before when you tethered and they now can.
Who knows.
AT&T might consider something similar to this :
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/1642237/Pirated-Android-App-Shames-Freeloaders?from=twitter
For those who steal tethering from them.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/03/1642237/Pirated-Android-App-Shames-Freeloaders?from=twitter
For those who steal tethering from them.
Circumvent? These people have PAID for X amount of data per month. YOU seem to be suggesting that they do not deserve to actually receive the data they PAID for and insist they are "stealing" it. I don't think you even know the definition of "morals".
Unlikely
( but a little bit funny)Seriously just pay for the data people...yikes. If the NYT puts up a paywall pay for the Times. If you do not like it buy something something else.
And whomever said checking work email on personal plan is in violation of the TOS is being silly. Work is personal. Personal is work. They have no interest in keeping you from your email.