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Old May 2, 2011, 11:03 AM   #1
rasmasyean
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How will War on Terror Change after "Osama Bin Laden" can't be used

Now that OBL is out of the picture, what do you think will happen?
Maybe more "peace lovers" will demand to bring troops home?
Will the US work real hard to find another "prime evil target" to keep the "war mongers" interested?
Maybe Pakistanis will think we now really have little reason to keep bombing them and begin an uprising?
Will we shift focus to Iran?
Detailed analyses and conspiracy theories welcome!

Discuss...
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Old May 2, 2011, 11:08 AM   #2
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I don't believe anything is really going to change. Al Queda is still alive, we are still spending 1,000,000 to 1 going broke trying to snuff out world wide terrorism, probably creating as many terrorists along the way as we destroy.

As I said in the other thread, I glad he is gone, he was a threat to peaceful existence as long as he was alive, but my gut feeling is that nothing is resolved.
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Old May 2, 2011, 11:11 AM   #3
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New day, same old issues.
In speeches, less emphasis on Bin Laden, and more focus on "evil-doers" in general.
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Old May 2, 2011, 11:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
How will War on Terror Change after "Osama Bin Laden" can't be used
Unfortunately, I doubt it will change anything regarding our domestic panicking or foreign military intrusions. It's not like Obama injected the name of Osama Bin Laden to justify sending drones into Libya a couple of weeks ago. The death of the dollar/US economy, not the death of Bin Laden, will end our ongoing wars, whether those wars be abstract wars "on terror," or actual, needless invasions halfway around the world.
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Old May 2, 2011, 11:52 AM   #5
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How did the Mafia change after Al Capone was sent to prison?

There will be somebody willing to step up and be the next leader.

It's only through long-term and persistent efforts that criminal organizations are weakened and defeated.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:04 PM   #6
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I hope it serves to make an argument to start withdrawing our troops.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:06 PM   #7
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Unfortunately, I doubt it will change anything regarding our domestic panicking or foreign military intrusions.
I wonder about the 'domestic panicking' actually. So much of it was fear driven and we've just killed the boogeyman, will the American people remain willing to submit to 'nudie' scanners, shoe checks, and fingernail clipper peculation.


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It's not like Obama injected the name of Osama Bin Laden to justify sending drones into Libya a couple of weeks ago.
Sure, but going into Libya wasn't for the same reasons we went to Afghanistan, rather it's the reason we went into Bosnia; we're using military force to keep a dictator from killing his own people. It's a different mission with different moral arguments.

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The death of the dollar/US economy, not the death of Bin Laden, will end our ongoing wars, whether those wars be abstract wars "on terror," or actual, needless invasions halfway around the world.
There's some truth to this.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:08 PM   #8
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For every terrorist killed, 10 more are created.

It's a vicious circle, or no virtue.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:21 PM   #9
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end result no real change. Someone else will rise up and take his place.

Real question is will the replacement be worse than the the first.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:31 PM   #10
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No real change.

No major changes. Some new wacko will step up and fill the fresh void.

That being said, it is a HUGE moral victory for us and our troops.
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:42 PM   #11
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Old May 2, 2011, 12:50 PM   #12
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No major changes. Some new wacko will step up and fill the fresh void.

That being said, it is a HUGE moral victory for us and our troops.
I'm not so sure that the void can be filled. Osama Bin Laden had become a figurehead, split away from his funding and logistical support, and existed as a symbol.
A new leader would have to fulfill that same roll, but Al Qaeda's money trail has been cut to ribbons, their logistical support is broken, and the organization's ability to recruit may be blunted by the 'Arab Spring.'

The Taliban, however, will keep on rolling, but they have always operated as a separate group, although their operational structures were intertwined.

Remember that Al Qaeda has been 'franchising' itself since before 9/11, so expect to see clones popping up in Africa and the Mid East that claim the same lineage, with leaders who will claim to be the next Osama Bin Laden.

However, that moment has passed.
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Old May 2, 2011, 01:22 PM   #13
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I wish this would begin our troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. Simply a money pit.

The fact is, little will likely change. We'll still keep buying cold war era weapons like the F-22.

Trillions of dollars on all those cold war fighter jets and all we have to show for it is ****ing Top Gun.
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Old May 2, 2011, 01:30 PM   #14
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I wish this would begin our troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. Simply a money pit.

The fact is, little will likely change. We'll still keep buying cold war era weapons like the F-22.

Trillions of dollars on all those cold war fighter jets and all we have to show for it is ****ing Top Gun.
WORTH IT .

But seriously terrorism is like crime, you can't get rid of crime by arresting all the criminals. You have to determine the root causes and alleviate those as much as possible.

But it's a lot easier (and often better received) to just blow **** up, so we usually do that instead.
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Old May 2, 2011, 01:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
WORTH IT .

But seriously terrorism is like crime, you can't get rid of crime by arresting all the criminals. You have to determine the root causes and alleviate those as much as possible.

But it's a lot easier (and often better received) to just blow **** up, so we usually do that instead.
So what is the root cause of terrorism? Enlighten us.
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Old May 2, 2011, 02:03 PM   #16
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So what is the root cause of terrorism? Enlighten us.
Off the top of my head:

-Poverty
-Lack of Education
-Resentment (Much of It Deserved) towards Western Nations
-Religious Fanaticism (which generally correlates with a lack of education)

If you've ever seen Charlie Wilson's war you might recall one part at the end of the movie. Wilson was able to convince congress/senate etc. to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars to support the Afghan's fight against the Russians. But at the end of all this Wilson attempted acquire a mere million dollars to build schools and promote education in Afghanistan, he wasn't able to get this funding.

I believe Wilson's famous quote went something like:

"We did a great thing, but we fcked up the end game"

We live in a world where unfortunately violence is sometimes necessary. But violence doesn't "solve" problems, it can sometimes forestall a greater disaster. Unless you fortify violence with something positive (like education) you're simply opening the door to more (and often greater) violence in the future.
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Old May 2, 2011, 02:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
Off the top of my head:

-Poverty
-Lack of Education
-Resentment (Much of It Deserved) towards Western Nations
-Religious Fanaticism (which generally correlates with a lack of education)

If you've ever seen Charlie Wilson's war you might recall one part at the end of the movie. Wilson was able to convince congress/senate etc. to allocate hundreds of millions of dollars to support the Afghan's fight against the Russians. But at the end of all this Wilson attempted acquire a mere million dollars to build schools and promote education in Afghanistan, he wasn't able to get this funding.

I believe Wilson's famous quote went something like:

"We did a great thing, but we fcked up the end game"

We live in a world where unfortunately violence is sometimes necessary. But violence doesn't "solve" problems, it can sometimes forestall a greater disaster. Unless you fortify violence with something positive (like education) you're simply opening the door to more (and often greater) violence in the future.
Ill agree with you on Lack of Education and Religious Extremism. Resentment, somewhat. I tend to think that if we just leave them the heck alone to do whatever they want and be as Shariah as they please we will see less terror attempts.

I know it is not apples-to-apples, but I was wondering if anyone has seen the National Geographic on North Korea? One part that struck my nerve was at the end when the doctors were removing the bandages from the patients eyes, one of the North Koreans first thing to do was go praise a poster of Ill and promise to "Destroy the american scum with my new eyes" or something like that, despite the fact that much of the equipment used to complete the surgeries was American made and American funded IIRC.
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Old May 2, 2011, 02:51 PM   #18
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Gives us a nice goal to get out of Afghanistan have finished. We got him and destroyed his network ability to launch large attacks. And hopefully but Afghanistan into a position where the moderates will be in control.

Were we ever going to stop terrorism with guns? No, but thats a long term battle we need to be fighting. And its one that starts with leaving Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Old May 2, 2011, 03:00 PM   #19
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Ill agree with you on Lack of Education and Religious Extremism. Resentment, somewhat. I tend to think that if we just leave them the heck alone to do whatever they want and be as Shariah as they please we will see less terror attempts.
Terrorism typically arises from some sort of injustice. I think there is some truth to the cliché "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." But "leaving them alone" is somewhat problematic as long as we support multinational enterprise that seeks to extract maximum profit in every corner of the world. Even if the business s not based in America, America is the most prominent target.
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I know it is not apples-to-apples, but I was wondering if anyone has seen the National Geographic on North Korea? One part that struck my nerve was at the end when the doctors were removing the bandages from the patients eyes, one of the North Koreans first thing to do was go praise a poster of Ill and promise to "Destroy the american scum with my new eyes" or something like that, despite the fact that much of the equipment used to complete the surgeries was American made and American funded IIRC.
Most likely, the government expects this sort of show of loyalty, when they are paying for your treatment. If you do not do this, you would probably labeled as seditiously ungrateful and they would find some way to make your life miserable.
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Old May 2, 2011, 03:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
Off the top of my head:

-Poverty
-Lack of Education
-Resentment (Much of It Deserved) towards Western Nations
-Religious Fanaticism (which generally correlates with a lack of education)
I think it's important to look at history as well. The Middle East was slowly deforested by increasing numbers of goats, sheep, camels and horses and the great cities were no longer able to support the arts and sciences. Much of the population was nomadic or were small farmers. Such people aren't known for their higher learning or trust of outsiders.

The deserts and mountains provided natural barriers for awhile but money from oil and modern health care meant an explosion in population and resulted in an almost continual clash of cultures. The forced backwardness of traditional, rural Islam and high levels of illiteracy amongst women, especially, ensure a reliance on religious as opposed to secular ideals.

Birth rates have fallen dramatically and the explosion of diabetes and other modern ills in countries like Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, the UAE, etc. means things will change simply because they have to. Although social inequality will remain as long as kings and dictators are in charge.
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Old May 2, 2011, 03:31 PM   #21
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Birth rates have fallen dramatically and the explosion of diabetes and other modern ills in countries like Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, the UAE, etc. means things will change simply because they have to. Although social inequality will remain as long as kings and dictators or republicans are in charge.
Fixed it for you
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Old May 2, 2011, 05:00 PM   #22
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Fixed it for you
Thumbs up! However, although I won't propose Dems are more effective in running government, at least they are sympathetic to the average Joe.
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Old May 2, 2011, 05:48 PM   #23
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Thumbs up! However, although I won't propose Dems are more effective in running government, at least they are sympathetic to the average Joe.
Neither party is very effective at this point....
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Old May 2, 2011, 07:11 PM   #24
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Neither party is very effective at this point....
Somewhere a few pages back there is a thread accusing the Republicans of being domestic terrorists. Reality is, both parties gleefully sodomize the 99% ("middle class" and below), the Ds are just a little more sly and subtle about it. And history would suggest that Rs are no strangers to sodomy, just to vaseline.
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Old May 2, 2011, 07:14 PM   #25
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Somewhere a few pages back there is a thread accusing the Republicans of being domestic terrorists. Reality is, both parties gleefully sodomize the 99% ("middle class" and below), the Ds are just a little more sly and subtle about it. And history would suggest that Rs are no strangers to sodomy, just to vaseline.
If I recall, you said the timing of the burial was very fast.

I should ask, how long does DNA testing take? I was told in February that it takes between 2-5 days.
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