Yeah that one on samgsung part I though was rather stupid. I am going to guess they are not using the standard 30 pin by Apple.
Hell honestly I hate Apple 30 pin design as to many devices out there are Apple only because of it.
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Samsung's Request to See iPhone 5 and iPad 3 Denied
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Yeah that one on samgsung part I though was rather stupid. I am going to guess they are not using the standard 30 pin by Apple.
Hell honestly I hate Apple 30 pin design as to many devices out there are Apple only because of it.
My first thought when I first read these stories, was not that a customer might be confused into thinking a Samsung phone was an iPhone, but more along the lines of.. "well the samsung one is cheaper, and its close enough to the iphone (hardware and software) so I might as well just get the cheaper samsung one".
This thinking would apply to a lot of people I think, who are less concerned about having an iPhone and just want a 'cool smart phone'
This thinking would apply to a lot of people I think, who are less concerned about having an iPhone and just want a 'cool smart phone'
Guys, are you _still_ looking at fosspatents? Why? The suite is run by Florian Müller, a know-nothing blogger who is nothing more than Microsoft's paid mouthpiece.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
YES. MacRumors posters are NOT typical consumers. Are you daft? There are tons of stuff that I don't really know about, if it is important enough to me I will do sufficient research before I make any purchases, but that isn't the case for everyone.
Say I wanted to buy a blu-ray player and I found one in the store that I perceived to be the same the my friend showed me, or the same I saw in a commercial. A lot of people would just buy it assuming it was the same one they saw. Whether the label said samsung, or panasonic, or whatever else I wouldn't really care.
You must only be friends with techies. And most techies have already made up their mind about Apple products one way or another. But my sister, my parents, my wife, etc don't know anything about tech in the slightest. I'm not sure if my parents even realize that there are other smartphones capable of using the internet... They see a touchscreen with internet they are already thinking iPhone. Now add in an 80% identical UI and now they are convinced as well as another huge chunk of the population.
I agree with you 100%. I actually had meant to bring this up too. I'm not sure how much cheaper they are (depends on the phone), but it could be price or it could be a non-iphone carrier, or a pushy sales rep, or it could just be the phone they see first. Assuming they even recognize it is a different phone, they will often think "well it's basically the same" and thus samsung reaps off the benefits of the iPhone.
It's really polite of you to ask if I'm daft after ignoring the sentence after what you quoted of mine: "Certainly someone out there knows something about what they're buying."
I understand that MacRumors forum members aren't typical: I was making the point that SOMEONE knows something about what they're buying showing that there's at least a precedent for people understanding a brand before a purchase and later saying that included things like shoes and other products, too.
So, for instance, if people understand that not all shoes are Nikes even though all Nikes that they've ever seen have laces and all the shoes that they see have laces maybe the same can be said about a person seeing a touchscreen phone with internet.
You also ignore the rest of the argument about the branding literally being written all over the device and instead sling insults. The other posters I'm going to quote manage to avoid doing that. What's wrong with you?
I think that's an interesting example which may indicate that it's not so much the inherent similarity of the products as much as it's the consumer's own preferences that are at play in the confusion. How much responsibility does a company that happens to be second to market have to differentiate its products from the leader? Do all Samsung and HTC devices have to have NOT AN IPHONE disclaimers on them? How much are the salespeople to blame?
I think this too is a good point. If it can be proven that the similarity in Samsung's products to Apple's stems from an intentional desire to copy and confuse and didn't result from organic similarities in the product's development, then Apple, even while they are using tons of Samsung parts to build their devices, would have a case. But consumer confusion alone isn't the benchmark for infringement especially if it arises merely from the similarity of two products with no other intellectual property issues.
And, from this other post on Macrumors' front page, you can see that not all of Apple's claims of consumers being confused fair well in court. I think this matter might be resolved differently, but Samsung may only have to tweak its UI a little to satisfy the court.
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Several commenters have said the average consumer would almost certainly know an iPhone from a Samsung, but I have overheard so many conversations in electronics stores (esp. Best Buy) that would make you realize how many consumers simply do NOT understand such differences.
Over the years, I have heard too many people buy an 'iPod' that was in actuality another mp3 player, and the salesmen never bothered to correct them.
Not too long ago, I saw a middle-aged couple looking at an HP Envy laptop, thinking it was a MacBook. Apparently, they were going to surprise their son with the MacBook he wanted for college. All they picked up on was that both were metal and looked similar, so they were the same right? But the 'HP Macbook' was cheaper, and the salesman played right along.
Just a few weeks ago I overheard a Best Buy employee explain to a young woman that, just like appliances are all made by the same group just with different branding, the Samsung and iPhone are really the same. She got the Samsung, and kept referring to it as an iPhone. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when she was looking at actual iPhone cases and asked, "Will this case fit my iPhone?" My guess is that she probably got the Samsung and probably still doesn't understand that it isn't an iPhone.
It's not just Apple vs. non-Apple, either. I've seen all too many people pick Product B over the Product A they seemed to be interested in (a PS3 Move over a Wii?!) seemingly because they don't really get the difference. The common thread was an ill-informed consumer, and a salesman that will say anything. The combination made some sad magic.
Over the years, I have heard too many people buy an 'iPod' that was in actuality another mp3 player, and the salesmen never bothered to correct them.
Not too long ago, I saw a middle-aged couple looking at an HP Envy laptop, thinking it was a MacBook. Apparently, they were going to surprise their son with the MacBook he wanted for college. All they picked up on was that both were metal and looked similar, so they were the same right? But the 'HP Macbook' was cheaper, and the salesman played right along.
Just a few weeks ago I overheard a Best Buy employee explain to a young woman that, just like appliances are all made by the same group just with different branding, the Samsung and iPhone are really the same. She got the Samsung, and kept referring to it as an iPhone. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when she was looking at actual iPhone cases and asked, "Will this case fit my iPhone?" My guess is that she probably got the Samsung and probably still doesn't understand that it isn't an iPhone.
It's not just Apple vs. non-Apple, either. I've seen all too many people pick Product B over the Product A they seemed to be interested in (a PS3 Move over a Wii?!) seemingly because they don't really get the difference. The common thread was an ill-informed consumer, and a salesman that will say anything. The combination made some sad magic.
just like when the kitana or the blade was out and people thought they were razr. your point is the most real world example of the argument that apple is making in this lawsuit. premium brands being knocked off. apple spends its ad money to market apple products.
Mad Mac Maniac
macrumors 601
wow. I didn't realize you were so sensitive... I called you daft: silly, foolish, crazy. Would you have been insulted if I asked "are you crazy?" Nothing else about my post was remotely close to "slinging insults"
and I STILL think it's crazy to reply to my statement of "the average consumer is ill-informed" with "but people here on MR know the difference!" THAT is a crazy analogy. Sure, SOMEBODY knows the difference. informed people know the difference. That doesn't take away from my statement that the AVERAGE ho-hum consumer is ill-informed (and there are tons of examples to prove it). Your argument is flawed.
Branding All over the device? Are you referring to the one small
icon on the back of the device? Hardly all over the device... Plus, like I said a lot of people don't really care so much about the apple logo, or the samsung logo etc. They want the experience. The apple advertising does a great job showcasing that experience. All their friends weilding iPhones show examples of that experience. They walk in the store and get confused because that look, feel, and experience is so similar in many other products. So they end up buying the cheapest or whichever the salesman recommended.
wow. I didn't realize you were so sensitive... I called you daft: silly, foolish, crazy. Would you have been insulted if I asked "are you crazy?" Nothing else about my post was remotely close to "slinging insults"
and I STILL think it's crazy to reply to my statement of "the average consumer is ill-informed" with "but people here on MR know the difference!" THAT is a crazy analogy. Sure, SOMEBODY knows the difference. informed people know the difference. That doesn't take away from my statement that the AVERAGE ho-hum consumer is ill-informed (and there are tons of examples to prove it). Your argument is flawed.
Branding All over the device? Are you referring to the one small
I wasn't brought to tears by your use of the word, but I found it particularly off-putting since you then, and now, ignored my argument and cherry-picked a sentence that, out of context, would be really easy attack. By the way, in context "daft" as you used it would align most closely with stupid or foolish- neither of which I'd use easily. You're right, saying that you were slinging insults was an exaggeration for effect.
Ok, with that out of the way, I was trying to debunk the stance that consumers in general are stupid by showing that at least someone (maybe I should be more liberal in my use of italics) knows what type of phone they're buying, in this case MacRumors posters, leaving the reader to figure out that plenty of people who don't post may be similarly informed thus chipping away at the notion that everyone except people who are obsessed with all things Apple are too dumb to tell the difference between a Samsung phone and an Apple. If you're argument is that people don't care, then how confused are they? It's more that their priorities are such that a product's manufacturer doesn't matter, not that they can't tell the difference. Consumers, then, would be ill-informed since they don't care. Is Apple going to send them to re-education camps until they can recite the iPhone's specs?
Your asking if I'm daft plays into my argument that "Many posters who are convinced that the average consumer is a no-nothing idiot seems more to be reveling in their own perceived superiority to that person rather than actually engaging on the topic. Wiser people might acknowledge instead that an average person wouldn't know instinctively looking at the front of a Samsung touchscreen smartphone and an Apple one who made it and discuss the implications of that."
And, you're right, the branding isn't written all over the device, again I was exaggerating, but it is very clear at almost every point of sale (brick and mortar Apple Stores, the online store, a particularly section of BestBuy or ATT, and on the box) who makes an iPhone. Further, if there was enough confusion to warrant this type of suit, wouldn't the dismal sales of the iPhone show it...? Wouldn't many consumers end up with an Android phone when in fact they wanted an iPhone? How often does that occur? Even without hard facts, though I'll admit one poster did allude to example, when someone goes out to buy an iPhone, if they know enough to ask for that, how likely is it that they'll be derailed in that pursuit and end up with something else? You say they want the experience, not the brand. Ok, if that's true, they're free to choose a cheaper product that gives them a sufficient experience without buying Apple, are you then saying Apple competitors are copying Apple's IP by offering something that fits the bill? Will they really walk out of the store confused or will they have chosen something that does the job but is not conceived of in Cupertino?
Essentially, it comes down to my belief that while the iPhone is great and I enjoy the experience it provides, on a gut level, looking at the Samsung phones and their GUIs, I think that Apple's better course of action would be to play it classy and continue to make better products and be the market leader and not try to get Samsung to change the color of its icon for the phone app. Plus, two separate groups of people working on the same problem could come up with similar results. Their inspirations may be the same. Further, Apple is building its iPhones, in part, with Samsung's hardware- Apple is not creating the smartphone experience from scratch, even if they do it the best.
This coupled with Apple's trying to maintain its trademark on "App Store" annoy me. I'd prefer Apple's ethos to be one of engineering and development not one of lawyers and litigiousness.
Do you? Or are you just assuming that unverified and vague-in-details email forwards must be representative of the truth of the population as a whole?
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