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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:08 AM   #26
steadysignal
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Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!
I agree - i find it hard to lose the tether to google for the same reason.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:10 AM   #27
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Invention for the sake of invention is pointless, at least commercially. Google have an excellent database, there is so much data at their hands.
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:16 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!
iToys, iStudent? iToys for kids and Android for adults? Still in nursery or infants school?

Apple needs to unshackle from Google, so that in time, it is independent and Google can't squeeze Apple's balls the way Microsoft did years ago (MS threatened to stop developing Office for Mac if Apple didn't agree to MS using Apple's UI -- look and feel).
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:18 AM   #29
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If you go to Google maps, you can register you business location etc. I think that's what he meant.
Google leave it to them but so few businesses bother.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:26 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!
Apple probably feels that it's not a good idea to depend so deeply on a direct competitor for such an important data source. Although I don't think Google would actually do anything malicious to sabotage Apple's maps, it seems like they have been holding back some of the goodies for themselves - the 3D maps in Android, for example.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:27 AM   #31
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Apple see great untapped wealth in geolocated data and where to find stuff and how to get there!
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:28 AM   #32
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.
I wouldn't say so.
My father has an iPhone 4 but recently bought himself the latest Tom Tom. £150 for a device that he'll be taking all over Europe, whereas if he was to do this with his iPhone the data cost would be massive. Beyond the initial cost there's nothing else to fork out for. And it also has free over-the-air traffic updates too and can be updated through customers making new points of reference, etc.

For most people the iPhone GPS is enough, but it's not the best at all.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:33 AM   #33
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I'm very happy with Navigon, but would welcome a native full featured navigation app from Apple.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Biolizard View Post
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.
Well Mr. Paranoid I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Google is doing some pretty good things. They are making strong infrastructure investments (Wind Farms, Other alternative energies) that will stabilize America but also yield a profit. They aren't as evil as you think
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:36 AM   #35
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Now you'll be able to know when you walk into a dodgy area with your nice mobile phone
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:37 AM   #36
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Maybe this doesn't mean anything. In 2008 TomTom bought Tele Atlas and Tele Atlas was the main map provider for Google Maps. As Tele Atlas is now TomTom maybe this change just reflects the changed names. It doesn't explain the other companies though.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by FriarNurgle View Post
I'm very happy with Navigon, but would welcome a native full featured navigation app from Apple.
From a level headed standpoint I think it makes sense for Apple to design something like this. I use it on my Droid and it has rendered my Garmin useless. Motorola offers a GPS like window attachment, which im sure that will be available from Apple that is very handy. It's a smart move and a great tool if done right
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:41 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Jerome Morrow View Post
Some battety packs for charging iOS devices are no bigger than a piece of soap, so i think if you really needed you'd survive adding an extra 'soap' to your backpack.
Lol, I don't think so... I really have to think about almost every CM...
It's hard to choose between a couple of First aid items or some extra PowerBars for food... let alone a batterie or 4.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:41 AM   #39
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Well Mr. Paranoid I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Google is doing some pretty good things. They are making strong infrastructure investments (Wind Farms, Other alternative energies) that will stabilize America but also yield a profit. They aren't as evil as you think
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I'm not saying Google don't do good. They do, lots more than many people. But don't give them a free ride, because that can all change. Google is a company, and companies have shareholders who demand profit. If profits were to be in direct contention with doing good, the former would come first.
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Last edited by Biolizard; Jun 23, 2011 at 07:47 AM.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Biolizard View Post
We've seen this before. Internet Explorer for Mac led to Safari.
That really is not a good comparison. You don't just build out a Maps/Places database like you write software. Google has lot's of sources for it's data (and continuously collects it from Android users) to provide the most accurate maps/places database in use right now. Apple has tried to buy a few companies to help with this. I think the reason we still haven't seen their own solution is they are realizing how hard of a task this is. If they released it without it being on par to the current iPhone Maps app, then it would really hurt their image. And given Google's head start in this area, it is going to be difficult.

My guess is they aren't developing the current Maps app anymore (which they actually do, not Google) so they add some features with their own solution and then say how great it is. Even though it will be hard to match the features of Android's version.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:51 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Themaeds View Post
From a level headed standpoint I think it makes sense for Apple to design something like this. I use it on my Droid and it has rendered my Garmin useless. Motorola offers a GPS like window attachment, which im sure that will be available from Apple that is very handy. It's a smart move and a great tool if done right
This story has nothing to do with what you mention. Apple can already build what you mention using Google's map data.

This is simply about replacing the provider of maps and the locations databases behind it. This has nothing to do with Maps.app, which is a barely functionning mess of basic functionality on iOS compared to what the competition has to offer.

The efforts Apple is putting towards this back-end infrastructure would be best spent on making the front-end application better. If only Apple didn't operate in a "small business" mode where they have small teams that do many different projects depending on priorities rather than more teams working on more stuff at the same time.

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Originally Posted by bozzykid View Post
That really is not a good comparison. You don't just build out a Maps/Places database like you write software.
It's also not a very good comparison in the fact that Safari wasn't built from the ground-up by Apple. They basically took years of work done by the KDE Community, forked it, promised to give it back (according to the terms of the GPL), went underground, showed back up a few months later with an uintegratable mess, basically screwing the original developers out of the improvements they made.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:52 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Biolizard View Post
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I'm not saying Google don't do good. They do, lots more than many people. But don't give them a free ride, because that can all change. Google is a company, and companies have shareholders who demand profit. If profits were to be in direct contention with doing good, the former would come first.
haha I am not naive either. I don’t 100% trust ANY company...but the notion that Google HQ is like the control room of the death star is crazy. Your argument above applies to every company including Apple.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:52 AM   #43
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Google Nexus S Build/MIUI) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

The end of the standalone GPS unit is nigh.
Just wait until that speeding ticket arrives in the mail based on timed location data from your iPhone.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:54 AM   #44
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Great! Can't wait. Google API was awesome 4 years ago, but hasn't really been updated since. As I understand it, the Google mapping client on Android blows away what Google's API always 3rd parties like Apple to do.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:55 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by iStudentUK View Post
Google Maps is fantastic. The app itself on iToys could be improved, but why go to the effort of making a whole new map format and collect data when Google has it all already?!
Well, partly because of Android. You do realize that Google is involved with that, right? lol...

I also think it's a matter of having more control.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 07:59 AM   #46
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Lol, I don't think so... I really have to think about almost every CM...
It's hard to choose between a couple of First aid items or some extra PowerBars for food... let alone a batterie or 4.
I can't agree on that, because it's based on my personal experience. I often go to the woods for weeks. I have standard military backpack. If you can't squeeze extra soap i don't know what to say. Maybe you need to improve your "put some extra soap into a backpack" skill?
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 08:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Biolizard View Post
Call me Mr Paranoid, but I don't trust Google, with their vested interests across a range of industries now, with the only copy of such a database. It's too easy for them to decide to manipulate its data for their own ends if it were to suit them in the future.

It's good that competitors like Apple and Microsoft should come up with their own such systems to ensure no one dominates and that what constitutes the 'truth' is not the domain of one organisation.
Mr Paranoid
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 08:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by gertruded View Post
Just wait until that speeding ticket arrives in the mail based on timed location data from your iPhone.
I would welcome that ticket if the GPS accuracy was increased on the iPhone.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 08:09 AM   #49
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I don't believe that. You're suggesting that Google Maps gets all its data from user submissions? Link?

According to Google they get at least some of their business listings from Acxiom Corporation and/or infoUSA Inc.

arn
I never said that at all. Google buys some listings in, and has others submitted. I would imagine the split isn't far off 50/50.

But if Apple can only buy 50% in, and maybe with the best will in the world get 20% submitted (iOS is a fairly big platform for businesses), then my iOS map app still gets 30% ******* data coming into it. That's not good news. And I don't see that there's anyway around it.

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You make it sound as though Google is abusing its near-monopoly in Search in order to create a monopoly in Maps?
I think there's a very good arguement they are.

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Old Jun 23, 2011, 08:19 AM   #50
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I think there's a very good arguement they are.

Phazer
The Google POI Search feature on the iOS Navigon App is really really good.
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