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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:14 PM   #51
dethmaShine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roland.g View Post
Screenshots and reviews are not enough. It would be nice to see iTunes show video previews from the developer showing the App in action so the customer can get a better sense on purchasing.

Not to mention whether it be iTunes categories, etc. or even sites like AppShopper, there really needs to be better information and organization when it comes to finding good Apps.

For example, I was looking last night for Apps for my kid for our upcoming trip and everything is lumped into education with no real breakdown by type, age, etc. So unless you want to go through trial and error, search through tons of apps, etc., it's like trying to sift through a mountain to find what would be useful.
Agreed. App store organisation is not good at all. Plus on the iPad, after scrolling through tonnes of pages, when you enter an app to see its description and you come out of it, you are directed back to the starting of the list with absolutely no way to go back. It's pathetic programming and poor data structuring on Apple's part.

I guess they need some better Algorithm experts to sort this out.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:14 PM   #52
espoir
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When user pays $1 the developer gets 0.7 but when the refund is processed Apple takes not 0.7 but $1 from the developer. So every refund is -0.3 per dollar for the developer.

So I guess many apps will be just pulled from Taiwan store...
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:16 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by espoir View Post
When user pays $1 the developer gets 0.7 but when the refund is processed Apple takes not 0.7 but $1 from the developer. So every refund is -0.3 per dollar for the developer.

So I guess many apps will be just pulled from Taiwan store...
That's why I said, don't make it a refund process, but a trial process where the transaction goes live if not cancelled in an hour. Then there's nothing to refund. Just wait to charge.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:19 PM   #54
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I would abuse the crap out of this and never buy anything again.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:20 PM   #55
Anaemik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewood View Post
Need a game that you can finish in less than 7 days, or even an expensive professional app for a project of less than 7 days? Now even more unscrupulous customers can rip off the developers and get apps for free in Taiwan.

To those complaining that the app descriptions and reviews are not enough, just don't buy those apps. Go write your own app that does what you want.
Oh please....
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:23 PM   #56
Jolly Jimmy
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What developers should do is offer trial version on their own websites, and sell the full app through the store. Why some developers don't offer seperate trials is plain stupid. There are quite a few apps that I was interested in but without a trial there's simply no way I would hand over my money.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:23 PM   #57
bit density
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I don't care if the app is a buck...

But as it gets more and more expensive, yes I care, and yes it is keeping me from apps that I want but I am not going to risk my cash that they don't meet my needs or suck. You know things like Tom-Tom and other apps in the 20+ or 100+ range. I want a WAY better GPS app than maps, but can't find one, because of the no-return, no-trial policy.

There are people that are figuring ways to do this with in app purchasing, and Internet touches. But no-returns only is broken and open to abuse too.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:25 PM   #58
Anaemik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post
I'd agree to a 15-minute or perhaps one hour "cooling off" period, but allowing people to play a game for a day or even a week and then get refunded sounds bad to me. We're talking about less than a buck for most apps. I've bought beers that were more expensive, and lasted less than 15 minutes. I'd never think of asking for a refund for those.

Disclaimer: I have an app on the app store so I'm one of those "filthy rich" developers (I wish).
Why all the talk about games? Apple does sell *other* software through the app store you know? Like their $299 pro apps such as FCP X for example (and a pretty good example given how many people would seemingly be wanting to return their versions right now). 15 mins to an hour is not enough time to evaluate a pro app, plus the clock starts ticking the moment you hit "purchase", and I for one do not always have the time to evaluate an application the moment I buy it.

I would approve of this being implemented in other territories and personally think that 48 hrs is a more reasonable timeframe. Game developers have already partially figured out a solution to this in the form of expansion packs anyway - that model would seem to work very well to protect them from bogus refunds.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:33 PM   #59
Starship77
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7 days from purchase / 1 hour using

I think they should do something like 7 days from purchase / 1 hour of usage - whichever comes first. More or less like in movie rentals that have 30 days/24hours. This way it would be harder for people to abuse. This could be the standard for all countries.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:34 PM   #60
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I can see both sides... there's a reason that "hardware" is returnable but "software" is not. Users would abuse the ability to buy, do what they need, then return -- and for a lot of software it's just a means to make a copy that the user keeps.

HOWEVER, after the recent Apple disaster with the new "Final Cut Pro X", I totally understand why users want the ability to try the software before buying.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:39 PM   #61
alhedges
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An hour seems reasonable for games and for products under, say, $10 or $20. For non-game products costing more than $20, 7 days might be reasonable.

Kindle offers 7 day returns on ebooks, but (apparently) can lock you out if you are abusing it (they can tell how many pages you turned in a returned book, for example). AFAICT, the net effect of this return policy is to increase sales, since people are more likely to buy something is there is no risk.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:43 PM   #62
fun173
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This is absolute stupidity. I am not for this at all.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:45 PM   #63
ericmooreart
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I'm for this policy here. As was posted above for 48 hours instead of 7 days. Or even better, just a demo with saving disabled with the option to buy a serial
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:49 PM   #64
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Woud love to see this in the US. Maybe not 7 days, but 15 minutes like Google does it.

Apple would have to change the system though so this works. Like they would have to flag apps in your purchase history so you can't download them again until you pay for it. Reason I say this is because I had to return an app that I downloaded by accident, and all they were able to do is refund it. The app stayed on my device and purchase history and can still be redownloaded for free though I should have been charged $10 again.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post
I've bought beers that were more expensive, and lasted less than 15 minutes. I'd never think of asking for a refund for those.
Sure, but if you took a sip of that beer and found that it was flat, or tasted odd, wouldn't you complain? If it wasn't fit for purpose then you are entitled to refund it (so long as you didn't drink it all of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nippyjun View Post
Do we get refunds for boxed games? Do we get refunds for movies we see or buy?
Yes, at least at the theatres in my area you can get refunds (or at least credits, passes, etc.) for movies if you leave within the first 15-20 minutes. Not long enough for you to cheat the system but long enough for you to decide that this movie is definitely NOT one you wanted to watch.

And you can resell boxed games if you don't like them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaemik View Post
Why all the talk about games? Apple does sell *other* software through the app store you know? Like their $299 pro apps such as FCP X for example (and a pretty good example given how many people would seemingly be wanting to return their versions right now). 15 mins to an hour is not enough time to evaluate a pro app, plus the clock starts ticking the moment you hit "purchase", and I for one do not always have the time to evaluate an application the moment I buy it.
Even if you aren't able to "fully" evaluate the software you can at least have some idea of whether it will (or might) work out for you. For example, you buy a GPS app with built-in mapping only to discover that the mapping for your city/county/country is nonexistent or incomplete or outright wrong. I went through this recently as I was shopping for GPS nav apps for my iPhone. Thankfully certain apps had customer reviews that said things like "Warning! Do not buy if you live in Canada! The maps are outdated! ... etc."
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:53 PM   #66
dgree03
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There needs to be a refund policy. think 1 hour is sufficient without a free trial.

Or why not allow free trial apps? after 2 days the app expires and you are required to buy it.

Or do an incentive program. So say you DL a free trial of angry birds, then after 48 hours the app expires, but instead of paying full price you get a discount because you DL'd the trial?
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 01:59 PM   #67
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My experience of apps is that you can tell within 5 minutes whether you'll like or dislike an app. I've downloaded loads that I've deleted very soon after because I thought they were rubbish.

I struggle to see a way to implement a refund policy unless there is a time limit, although how do you judge the time. Some more complex apps may need longer to trial, for example I trialled a GPS tracker to tag my photos, I needed that for a few hours to see how it worked as I moved around.

It's a really tricky one, but if word of this spreads I can see there being more and more calls for it to be implemented across the board. Perhaps Apple will have to introduce Demo/Trial software , much like lite apps on the Apps store.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:00 PM   #68
kockgunner
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I feel bad for developers who make apps that are only fun for 15 minutes. It's really not fair to impose a 1 week return period for ALL the different kinds of apps on the App Store.

Does Android's 15 minutes start counting down right after you open the app or is it from the purchase time? I think having 15 minutes total time would be better.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:00 PM   #69
duke49er
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Help me out here...

How do you "return" an app?
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duke49er View Post
Help me out here...

How do you "return" an app?
"Uninstall & Refund" rather than "Return"
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:11 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by duke49er View Post
Help me out here...

How do you "return" an app?
You make a screenshot of the screen while you are deleting it and send it to the developer/apple.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:12 PM   #72
bit density
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Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
AFAICT, the net effect of this return policy is to increase sales, since people are more likely to buy something is there is no risk.
Ding... I know for a fact that I would spend more, if I had a better method of doing exactly this.

DRM has improved to the point, and the positive overall customer experience, that it simply works. Almost all major programs are fully functioning expiring trials, until you enter the key. And it works. Similar methodology can be used in the app store. There will be some abuse, just like there is with AAC files.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:14 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duke49er View Post
Help me out here...

How do you "return" an app?
You can't currently. You can get a refund.

My brother got a refund for TomTom as it kept loosing the signal so in the uk it was "Not fit for purpose" and so entitled to a refund. He still gets updates for the app so its just a refund.

I think a 24h trial is the way it should go. 15 minutes if often not enough time i.e. I have been playing around with security webcams and even using the free apps its taken me a while playing around getting it working the way I might like to use it.

As for the whole, it will hurt developers, the only developers it will 'hurt' are those producing poor quality over priced apps and I loose no sleep about them loosing out.

I don't agree with the whole "If you don't like it don't buy it" purely because how do you know like if it you can't try it? May apps that are not games pay well not work the way you want them too.

The more expensive apps become it becomes even more relavent. OK if you get a 99c/69p app and its rubbish your less likely to kick off but if its a $20/15 app and its not clear exactly how it works then thats not good.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:15 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by lilcosco08 View Post
This is what the store over in the states needs

Bring it over here!
Only if you want to see developers begin to quickly abandon the platform.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 02:16 PM   #75
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How do they enforce that the app is actually removed? Kill switch on the app or in the app store (like the rented movies on iTunes)?
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