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Old Jun 27, 2011, 03:48 PM   #26
Joelb955
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Probably Not going to be really Noticeable but its cool that apple does stuff like this with the OS Updates I absolutely <3 my 13" i7!
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 03:49 PM   #27
CubusX
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Works

Quote:
Originally Posted by mungler View Post
http://www.groths.org/?p=308 - enabler for 10.6.7 (not sure if it needs to be updated for the 10.6.8 build)
The version for 10.6.7 worksed for 10.6.8.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 03:49 PM   #28
joskewarez
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Trim enabler for 10.6.8

Trim enabler for 10.6.8 http://www.groths.org/?p=387

'Apple' SSD's are rebranded overpriced crap
Go buy a real Intel or OCZ SSD
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 03:58 PM   #29
emt1
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Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:05 PM   #30
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Good drives- like Sandforce or Intel based SSDs-- do not need TRIM. TRIM is only useful for dumb flash drives, and you shouldn't use them anyway, because, even with TRIM their useful life is likely to be only a couple years.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1 View Post
Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?
Yes, before you've even moved you hand away from the [OK] button.

Actually, though, it depends. If "delete" moves the files to a "trash" directory or "recycle bin" - there's no difference from a system without TRIM.

If "delete", however, actually "permanently deletes" the file - with TRIM it will be extremely unlikely that it is recoverable by any "find deleted files" utility.

Those utilities usually work on the assumption that the file system meta-data for the file is marked "deleted", but in fact the rest of the meta-data and the actual file data is still intact. These "deleted" entries will in fact be correct until the meta-data record or the actual file data is overwritten with a new file. If you run the "find deleted files" utility, it looks for meta-data records marked "deleted" - and will try to recover the file.

With TRIM, however, a command is sent to the solid state drive to notify it that the file data is free. The drive will add those sectors to a background task that erases free space and puts in on the available list. (Unlike a spinning hard drive, SSD sectors cannot be simply overwritten with new data - the sector (usually a "page" containing quite a few sectors) must be "erased", and then it can be written.)

The key to maintaining SSD performance is to ensure that the drive has a big pool of already erased pages. That lets a write completely quickly. If there are no free pages, then the drive has to move a bunch of sectors out of a page into partially used pages, and then erase the page, and then write the incoming sectors into newly erased page. This can make writes much slower.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM   #32
orfeas0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1 View Post
Does this mean that deleted files will be rendered unrecoverable fairly quickly?
What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:06 PM   #33
Yamcha
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That truly sucks, now although we have trim enabler I don't see why Apple doesn't want to support other branded SSD's..
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:08 PM   #34
doug in albq
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I noticed the graphics improvements in this update.

I skipped 10.6.7 entirely because of its poor graphics performance—in games and with HD video in full screen on an external display with my 2010 MBP.

10.6.8 is working great!...on both the MBP and even the 2.0 C2D Mac Mini!!
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:08 PM   #35
Grimmeh
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I have a MacBook Pro (MacBookPro5,5) with a factory 128 GB SSD (APPLE SSD TS128A) on 10.6.8 with TRIM support reported as “no.”
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Last edited by Grimmeh; Jun 27, 2011 at 04:21 PM.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:09 PM   #36
Bokito
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The graphics tests are 100% unfounded. Xbench is an app that isn't updated for almost 5 years now. I haven't seen any real world differences in the games I play, so the speed increase is likely due to some odd behavior from Xbench on newer systems. Any self-respecting journalist would try to get confirmation for the claims and would know that anything relating to Xbench should be ignored.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:09 PM   #37
Speedy2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoof82 View Post
Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.
TRIM is a standard ATA feature, similar to SATA 6G. There's no need for Apple to write firmware or drivers for anyone in order to support it. Either a SSD has the capability (which will be announced to the OS if it asks nicely), or it doesn't. In the latter case, it won't work on Windows or with TRIM Enabler either. Apple has just decided not to enable it on other drives for political reasons. There's no technical reason. Windows supports TRIM generally, so could OS X.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:11 PM   #38
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so, what exactly does "graphic improvements" detail? looks the same to me..
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:11 PM   #39
a.gomez
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I installed an OCZ Vertex 2 on my macmini - sounds like I wont get TRIM but guess Ill see when I get home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelb955 View Post
Probably Not going to be really Noticeable but its cool that apple does stuff like this with the OS Updates I absolutely <3 my 13" i7!
hmm, not really - better if the user can update things like video drivers - it is just a way for Apple to control what you put in your Mac or limit features.

glad you like yours thou.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:17 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfeas0
graphics improvement, good news for sandy bridge macbooks limited to the hd3000! and ofc for everyone else ;P
I'm excited about this. But a little weary as a lot of people have been reporting strange issues with their machines.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:18 PM   #41
MovingWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmeh View Post
I have a MacBook Pro (MacBookPro5,5) with a factory 128 GB SSD on 10.6.8 with TRIM support reported as “no.”
I've a MacBook Air (2,1) with a factory "APPLE SSD SM128" on 10.6.8 with TRIM support also reported as "no".
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:23 PM   #42
manu chao
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I have a SAMSUNG MMDOE56G5MXP-0VB in a 2009 13" MBP, supposedly exactly the same model that Apple did put into their 13" MBPs in 2009 but naturally not labelled 'APPLE SSD'. Thus, no luck.
I get by with running the refresh command of Lloyd Chambers disk tools. Supposedly restores full performance if run on an empty drive.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesuburb View Post
10.6.8 still has no love for my TS256A
Same here
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:28 PM   #44
scottsjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlord View Post
so, what exactly does "graphic improvements" detail? looks the same to me..
In my case I use my MBP 2.4 CTD and MP 3.2 quite a bit so I notice when they feel "different". Since the update apps like iPhoto, iTunes and Safari seem to open and operate faster.

Whether it's because of program execution or screen drawing I don't know. But both machines feel faster in a very general sense.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:34 PM   #45
AidenShaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewyboy View Post
...a SSD with a SandFore (trim handled by controller).
Sandforce cannot do TRIM in the controller. It can run proactive garbage collection in the background to help ensure an adequate pool of erased pages. This keeps performance high as long as the SSD has a big pool of "invisible" pages - but it also causes unnecessary wear on the drive as the garbage collection will copy unused data while garbage collecting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgrove View Post
(it sure sounds like it because TRIM support is simply about issuing a command to the controller, right
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfoof82 View Post
Apple is not in the business of writing firmware for every storage vendor's devices. Apple has created support for TRIM in the operating system. Get on your device's manufacturer's case for adding support for it in OS X.
TRIM is a standard (albeit optional) SATA command. It is a simple command where the OS tells the drive that "sectors XXX through YYY are free".

It has nothing to do with "Apple writing firmware". If the drive identifies itself as "TRIM support=YES", then the OS simply adds the "send TRIM command" to the file system code that puts blocks on the file system free list.

That's why Windows supports TRIM on any device that claims it supports TRIM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by econgeek View Post
Good drives- like Sandforce or Intel based SSDs-- do not need TRIM. TRIM is only useful for dumb flash drives, and you shouldn't use them anyway, because, even with TRIM their useful life is likely to be only a couple years.
"Good drives" are "better drives" if you can send them TRIM commands. While the performance of Sandforce drives holds up better than earlier drives, TRIM will help them last longer.

Can you name any drives with 2 year MTBF?
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:44 PM   #46
bened
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No Trim

No Trim with my MacBookAir 2.1 Late 2008 with original SSD.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 04:50 PM   #47
emt1
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Originally Posted by orfeas0 View Post
What if they are? If you want a file, don't delete it.
No offense, but why would you want to recover a deleted file? I mean you already have the option to recover it from the trash... If you delete it from the trash then you probably don't need it at all (or you should have thought better)
I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 05:11 PM   #48
PBG4 Dude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1 View Post
I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.
If SSDs are more resistant to "forensic analysis" compared to HDDs then I'm all for it.

[ETA]
My TS128C shows TRIM Support: Yes in 10.6.8 .
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 05:22 PM   #49
AidenShaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1 View Post
I'm not an idiot. When I delete a file I intend for it to be deleted.
Before this post, I'd never met a perfect human.

I still haven't.
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 05:28 PM   #50
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I know one thing... My son better start TRIMMING the garbage on trash day...
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