SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

cmdrdata · Jul 3, 2011

Last week I cut off the end of magsafe plug from a broken Apple adapter and in the process of removing the plug sleeve, I broke the magnetic part from the circuit board part. There are 2 things I learned from this un-intentional damage. When I checked the end of the magsafe adapter cable without the plug, I saw open voltage of 6.25v. When I apply a 10 Ohm load to this wire, the voltage jumps up to 16.5v! So the Apple adapter is most likely still good and usable. It can sense a load and enable its output and provide voltage and current when low impedance is applied to the adapter.

Second lesson: maybe I have a bad DC IN board too like Kharlitro (my PN is 820-2565-A). I soldered two short wires to the +V and -V pins in the magnetic part. I use this to supply 16.5v to my MBP using a different (non-Apple) power supply and it did not do a thing to the MBP when I connected it, as if the externally supplied power is not even there (like a bad DC IN board). I did measure the accessible pins of the DC IN board, and I saw the 16.5v there, but to measure at the smaller plug end of the board, I have to take the logic board out, and I haven't done that yet. Stay tuned.

Kharlitro · Jul 3, 2011

Why you have to take apart Logic to check the output at the logic connector?

If you want you can check the output simply reading here:

i don't believe you can have a bad wire from spot to connector.

If i have understood what you wanna do.

cmdrdata · Jul 3, 2011

@Kharlitro: Good thinking. You are right of course. I can do that since that is where the small black plug wires are soldered in and thus the DC IN board output pins.

cmdrdata · Jul 3, 2011

I just did what Kharlitro suggested. No output voltage at the places where the +V is supposed to be. Doing the same thing on a known good spare DC IN board I bought for my Macbook two years ago, the DC voltages are present on those solder spots. So I'll be ordering an 820-2565-A from eBay NOW!

Kharlitro · Jul 4, 2011

I'm glad i've helped you.

cmdrdata · Jul 4, 2011

Kharlitro said:
I'm glad i've helped you.

Removed my logic board from the unibody, then dsconnected the DC in board. Hooked up my spare DC in board (from a MacBook), and as you can see in the picture, the adapter is now charging (orange LED glows) the battery!

mcuri · Jul 8, 2011

Dadioh said:
I am not sure what solder spots you are measuring. However, look at my attached image. You should be able to read 18.5V at the point noted. If you do not have 18.5V there then I think your magsafe board needs to be replaced (or cleaned if it is liquid damaged).

I have a question to the part/IC visible in your attached picture.

I successfully made a water spilled MB Pro 13" A1278 2,26Ghz working again. I did some cleaning and had to change the DC-in board (it definitely was bricked) and now it's working without any problem (so far). BUT looking at the logicboard again the IC(?) located near the LVDS cable connecter (see the attachment picture) I noticed that pin1 (red circle) was broken and is no longer connected to the logicboard itself. The other pins are looking fine.

So the question is what's this component good for and what problems it could cause? After some research here the part seems to be a mosfet called HAT1127H.

I found a schematic for an older A1286 and managed to identify the HAT1127H. I'm not sure, but maybe it equals in some way to my A1278. If I look to the pin-out from pin 1 2 3 it seems that they are connected to the same "line". Could that be? I'm not very familiar with these kind of schematics...

So could someone tell me something more about that HAT1127H mosfet, the pin-out (especially 1/2/3) and/or what's the function of that part or the pins?

Thank you so much!

cmdrdata · Jul 8, 2011

mcuri said:
I have a question to the part/IC visible in your attached picture.

I successfully made a water spilled MB Pro 13" A1278 2,26Ghz working again. I did some cleaning and had to change the DC-in board (it definitely was bricked) and now it's working without any problem (so far). BUT looking at the logicboard again the IC(?) located near the LVDS cable connecter (see the attachment picture) I noticed that pin1 (red circle) was broken and is no longer connected to the logicboard itself. The other pins are looking fine.

So the question is what's this component good for and what problems it could cause? After some research here the part seems to be a mosfet called HAT1127H.

I found a schematic for an older A1286 and managed to identify the HAT1127H. I'm not sure, but maybe it equals in some way to my A1278. If I look to the pin-out from pin 1 2 3 it seems that they are connected to the same "line". Could that be? I'm not very familiar with these kind of schematics...

So could someone tell me something more about that HAT1127H mosfet, the pin-out (especially 1/2/3) and/or what's the function of that part or the pins?

Thank you so much!

See my edit in the bottom of this post. Sorry.

The MOSFET shown is part of the IN-RUSH and REVERSE current logic. These two MOSFETs carry the operating and charging voltage and current for the system and battery, thus fairly large current (in-rush current for charging a depleted battery could be as large as 5 Amps (Li-Ion battery initial charging current flow is "1C", thus if the battery is rated at 5000mAh, 1C means 5000mA or 5 Amps. The MOSFETs are wired that way to share the current loads through the 3 pins (notice in your schematic that the path from SOURCE (the 3 pins) to DRAIN on both MOSFETs are tripled, and the DRAIN or bar on top are already heavy duty. In my old days of designing logic circuit, these ICs uses fine gold wires and they are limited in current carrying capacity. The "gate" is a control system, thus carry very little current. Signal enable from the gate allows the source and drain to pass current/voltage through the MOSFET. If you follow the second MOSFET through the schematic, notice that it goes through a very low value resistor of 0.02 Ohm (R7020) which are also wired to the Charging IC (Intersil part). This is the one that tells the IC how much current is flowing out to the battery, based on charging voltage state.

I just enlarged the picture, and although the description is similar, the one shown is actually the CHARGING controller MOSFETs. The function is exactly the same as the one I described above. The 3 pins connected together are the pins that carry charging current to the battery (PPVBATT_G3H_CONN).

mcuri · Jul 8, 2011

Thanks for your reply! Oh dear, I see, I'm not very familiar with these things

You mentioned that the current loads is shared through the 3 pins. So now on my board the load is only shared on 2 of the pins, correct? As these pins on the mosfet are tripled I haven't noticed any "impact" yet (so to say), is that right? Because I can run on battery, on AC and the battery is charging without any problems.

Should I live with the missing pin or should I get the board to someone who can replace the damaged IC?

cmdrdata · Jul 8, 2011

mcuri said:
Thanks for your reply! Oh dear, I see, I'm not very familiar with these things

You mentioned that the current loads is shared through the 3 pins. So now on my board the load is only shared on 2 of the pins, correct? As these pins on the mosfet are tripled I haven't noticed any "impact" yet (so to say), is that right? Because I can run on battery, on AC and the battery is charging without any problems.

Should I live with the missing pin or should I get the board to someone who can replace the damaged IC?

Yes, the charging MOSFETs are now only sharing the two pins. However, I would not worry about that for now and just keep on using it. Someday, if the battery is no longer being charged, assuming it is still a good battery and the magsafe adapter is also ok, then perhaps you can have someone replace that chip. You should be ok as it is.

Additional info: I looked up the specification on the HAT1127 MOSFET, and it says that the device current limits are 40 Amps across SOURCE to DRAIN. Thus using simple math each of the SOURCE leads are designed to carry 40A/3 = ~13 Amps. So, based on this you should be OK for sometimes to come.

cmdrdata · Jul 10, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Removed my logic board from the unibody, then dsconnected the DC in board. Hooked up my spare DC in board (from a MacBook), and as you can see in the picture, the adapter is now charging (orange LED glows) the battery!

I put everything back together today and after carefully checked everything to make sure that every plug connector is secure and attached properly, I connected the battery to the logic board and then the magsafe adapter. The magsafe plug LED turned green and battery status shows all LED are lit (full charged). I measured the MOSFET by the display cable and say 18.5 volt. So I put the bottom cover back on, and turn the unit on. Nothing happened, no BOING, no HD spin, no fan. Totally silent.

I then attempted SMC reset and P-R reset, but no luck. So what did I do wrong? before all this, the MBP would at leat boot up on battery alone. I am baffled.

Kharlitro · Jul 10, 2011

cmdrdata said:
I put everything back together today and after carefully checked everything to make sure that every plug connector is secure and attached properly, I connected the battery to the logic board and then the magsafe adapter. The magsafe plug LED turned green and battery status shows all LED are lit (full charged). I measured the MOSFET by the display cable and say 18.5 volt. So I put the bottom cover back on, and turn the unit on. Nothing happened, no BOING, no HD spin, no fan. Totally silent.

I then attempted SMC reset and P-R reset, but no luck. So what did I do wrong? before all this, the MBP would at leat boot up on battery alone. I am baffled.

IMHO you have to check again the keyboard connector, and if it results well placed, i would try the keyboard free startup described in the 4th post of this thread.

cmdrdata · Jul 10, 2011

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Tried to power with and without the keyboard connected. Still nothing. The test point to power it has the 3.41v on one of them, as expected. The fuse near the battery showed 12v power available.

cmdrdata · Jul 14, 2011

peislander said:
Hey All
I'm very interested in trying to figure this charging/power problem.I've got a few Macbooks that need fixing.I can use a meter just not sure where to test & what readings i'm looking for.Let me know if you need any measurements & i'll be glad to help.Here's some of the laptops for fixing.

2008 a1286 15 inch macbook pro....magsafe don't light green & won't charge,Won't power up anymore,it did & all worked but fans went fast.
2009 a1278 13 inch macbook pro...magsafe don't light green but will very very very slowly charge, Everthing else works
2008 a1278 13 inch macbook...magsafe don't light green & won't run on power cord but everything works with charged battery
2008 a1278 13 inch macbook...magsafe don't light green & it won't power up with cord but put a battery in & it works fine & will very very slowly charge battery
2008 a1278 13 inch macbook...magsafe lights green but won't charge or power up on battery,works great when plugged in.unplug & it will shut off or go to sleep unless you hold any keyboard key & it will stay going
2008 a1278 13 inch macbook...magsafe don't light green & fan just runs full speed with only a battery hooked to it & a 470 ohm resistor gets real hot.Its the resister just down from the lcd connector.

Thanks for any help or ideas

Do you have an update on each of this system and if you have been successful, what did you do to each of them? Thanks.

peislander · Jul 14, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Do you have an update on each of this system and if you have been successful, what did you do to each of them? Thanks.

Hello,no success stories here.I've been busy with other stuff but keep checking back here for any new info.The Macbooks have been collecting dust.
I was gonna ask you about your laptop & wondering if you know if your battery is dead or charged?I've got an a1278 here that won't power up without a charged battery but will slowly charge the battery even though it says not charging.Does the laptop charge the battery & show all green lights on the side?
Can you get it to power up by disconnect battery & power cord,hold power button for 3sec, keep holding & plug battery in keep holding power button 3 more sec then release power button for 3 sec then press power button & it should power up with fan spinning fast.This should work with either just battery or just power cord.

peislander · Jul 14, 2011

cmdrdata said:
I put everything back together today and after carefully checked everything to make sure that every plug connector is secure and attached properly, I connected the battery to the logic board and then the magsafe adapter. The magsafe plug LED turned green and battery status shows all LED are lit (full charged). I measured the MOSFET by the display cable and say 18.5 volt. So I put the bottom cover back on, and turn the unit on. Nothing happened, no BOING, no HD spin, no fan. Totally silent.

I then attempted SMC reset and P-R reset, but no luck. So what did I do wrong? before all this, the MBP would at leat boot up on battery alone. I am baffled.

Why are you using a 85 watt 18.5 volt charger?The one that came with my mid 2009 was 65 watt 16.5 volt.I don't know for sure what is original but i think it should be 65 watt 16.5 volts.I read somewhere that if macbook senses too much voltage it won't power up.Just a thought.Hope it helps

cmdrdata · Jul 15, 2011

peislander said:
Why are you using a 85 watt 18.5 volt charger?The one that came with my mid 2009 was 65 watt 16.5 volt.I don't know for sure what is original but i think it should be 65 watt 16.5 volts.I read somewhere that if macbook senses too much voltage it won't power up.Just a thought.Hope it helps

Hemh, I hadn't realized I was using the 85W charger. Now that you mnetioned it, it makes sense that the 18.5v and 16.5v are 85W and 60W chargers, respectively. However, my problem is probably something else as I now cannot even turn on the MBP from battery alone (which was working before I replace the DCIN board. I am thinking that my damage occured when I hooked up the bare logic board to the magsafe adapter and was charging the battery (see the picture in previous post) and maybe, just maybe one of the big ICs overheated during the several hours it was powered and no fan to cool the NVIDIA and CPU chips.

To answer your question about battery: On my late 2009 MBP A1278, the internal battery (A1322) was in a "shutdown/self protection" mode and the there was no output voltage from the 9-pin connector. As posted previously, this battery had 3 pairs of cells, and one of those cell pairs has dropped below the minimum level. In my case, I think what happened here is that the DCIN board died, then the battery had un-even discharge whiole still being used and caused one of the cell pair to drop below the safe level and thus it self shutdown and no longer able to power the MBP. I bought a new battery from eBay, and it powers up the MBP right away, but at that time I still have the bad DCIN board, and thus will not charge the new battery. Now that I do have a working DCIN board, the battery can charge normally, but the system will not power up, even from the test point Dadioh mentioned. I will try the SMC bypass trick as well as the 60W adapter, but I am skeptical at this point. PS: To measure A1322 battery output, you need to place a 10 kOhm resistor between pin 5 and GND (pin 7/8/9) . It should at least show 10.6v. However, this does not mean that the battery is 100% healthy, it just means that it still has the capability of holding some charge.

peislander · Jul 15, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Hemh, I hadn't realized I was using the 85W charger. Now that you mnetioned it, it makes sense that the 18.5v and 16.5v are 85W and 60W chargers, respectively. However, my problem is probably something else as I now cannot even turn on the MBP from battery alone (which was working before I replace the DCIN board. I am thinking that my damage occured when I hooked up the bare logic board to the magsafe adapter and was charging the battery (see the picture in previous post) and maybe, just maybe one of the big ICs overheated during the several hours it was powered and no fan to cool the NVIDIA and CPU chips.

To answer your question about battery: On my late 2009 MBP A1278, the internal battery (A1322) was in a "shutdown/self protection" mode and the there was no output voltage from the 9-pin connector. As posted previously, this battery had 3 pairs of cells, and one of those cell pairs has dropped below the minimum level. In my case, I think what happened here is that the DCIN board died, then the battery had un-even discharge whiole still being used and caused one of the cell pair to drop below the safe level and thus it self shutdown and no longer able to power the MBP. I bought a new battery from eBay, and it powers up the MBP right away, but at that time I still have the bad DCIN board, and thus will not charge the new battery. Now that I do have a working DCIN board, the battery can charge normally, but the system will not power up, even from the test point Dadioh mentioned. I will try the SMC bypass trick as well as the 60W adapter, but I am skeptical at this point. PS: To measure A1322 battery output, you need to place a 10 kOhm resistor between pin 5 and GND (pin 7/8/9) . It should at least show 10.6v. However, this does not mean that the battery is 100% healthy, it just means that it still has the capability of holding some charge.

Hey,you should check & make sure no wires are broken on the battery connector.I've got a battery connector that one wire had broken off.I also got a fan with one wire broken off.I fire up boards all the time not in the laptop.You just need to have the heat sync & fan connected.

cmdrdata · Jul 15, 2011

peislander said:
Hey,you should check & make sure no wires are broken on the battery connector.I've got a battery connector that one wire had broken off.I also got a fan with one wire broken off.I fire up boards all the time not in the laptop.You just need to have the heat sync & fan connected.

Thanks. Will check that when I get home from work (retiring in 2 weeks, woohoo!). When you power on bare logic board, how do you know it is powering up? What are the tell tale signs that the board is up?

peislander · Jul 15, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Thanks. Will check that when I get home from work (retiring in 2 weeks, woohoo!). When you power on bare logic board, how do you know it is powering up? What are the tell tale signs that the board is up?

Hello
If the fan starts its up & running.The gpu & cpu will heat up too.Don't leave powered up too long though cause it won't cool proper out of laptop.Be carefull not short your dc inboard to the main board.I tape mine cause it happen to me before.Good Luck

cmdrdata · Jul 16, 2011

Good news: I got my MBP late 2009 working again. Magsafe power works, battery power works, separately or together. Sadly, in the process of putting the logic board back into the unibody, the battery indicator flex cable broke off, so that piece is now on order (922-0828-A). Afterwards, I attempted to upgrade the OS to Snow Leopard, but alas, it seemed that the superdrive is also defective. It was unable to read the OS disk. I heard the disk spin, then it spits it out. So that too will need to be looked into, a task for another day.

Dadioh · Jul 16, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Good news: I got my MBP late 2009 working again. Magsafe power works, battery power works, separately or together. Sadly, in the process of putting the logic board back into the unibody, the battery indicator flex cable broke off, so that piece is now on order (922-0828-A). Afterwards, I attempted to upgrade the OS to Snow Leopard, but alas, it seemed that the superdrive is also defective. It was unable to read the OS disk. I heard the disk spin, then it spits it out. So that too will need to be looked into, a task for another day.

Great news. I damaged one of those battery flex cables once too. Didn't notice it was out of position and put one of the battery screws right through the middle of it

The DVD drive is an easy fix but would have been nice if it worked.

Congrats.

peislander · Jul 16, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Good news: I got my MBP late 2009 working again. Magsafe power works, battery power works, separately or together. Sadly, in the process of putting the logic board back into the unibody, the battery indicator flex cable broke off, so that piece is now on order (922-0828-A). Afterwards, I attempted to upgrade the OS to Snow Leopard, but alas, it seemed that the superdrive is also defective. It was unable to read the OS disk. I heard the disk spin, then it spits it out. So that too will need to be looked into, a task for another day.

Cool
Good to see it was nothing too serious.Keep trying the super drive.My 2009 MBP super drive will sometimes spit it out a few times before it reads.Keep us updated.Cheers

cmdrdata · Jul 16, 2011

Dadioh said:
Great news. I damaged one of those battery flex cables once too. Didn't notice it was out of position and put one of the battery screws right through the middle of it

The DVD drive is an easy fix but would have been nice if it worked.

Congrats.

@Daddioh: Thank you very much for starting this thread. This has been one of the best forum with several people that are truly helping each other unwrap the mystery of the MacBook Pro power architecture.

cmdrdata · Jul 18, 2011

Dadioh said:
Great news. I damaged one of those battery flex cables once too. Didn't notice it was out of position and put one of the battery screws right through the middle of it

A couple of questions for the group:

1. My MBP late 2009 battery indicator pn is 821-0828A, and I uninentionally ordred 922-9061 since it was advertised for MBP model number A1278. Are they compatible?

2. My superdrive pn is UJ-868, and eBay listed GS21N and GS23N for MBP model A1278. Are they compatible? Thanks.

SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

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