Apple to Allow Additional FCP 7 Enterprise Licenses and More on FCP X

ChrisA · Jul 7, 2011

adrian.oconnor said:
The FCPX saga is getting a little tired now (for me at least), but I appreciate some people are concerned about the future of software they depend on. These things usually work out pretty well in the long run

This is different. Apple has clearly decided not to go after the top tier of the film industry. Apple has change it's business plan.

Yes it will all work out in the end, the the big guys will abandon Apple and find something else. But then the people working in the next tier down will follow if for no other reason than having "FCP X" on your resume will make you look like an amateur. The home users will leave too, some of them at least because they will copy whatever the others do. Pretty much a "death spiral" if you ask me.

But in the end maybe Apple is right to support the largest group which has to be the people editing corprate training films, stuff going to YouTube and Wedding videos

Atlantico · Jul 7, 2011

midnightMachine said:
You know it is "pros" like you that make me almost happy that Apple has wronged you so.. I mean seriously, there is intrinsically a lot more to being a professional at anything than just getting paid for what you do. Your behavior towards people on a public forum where the OPEN discussion of ideas happens is simply pathetic.

If you have so much as looked at Final Cut Pro X then you have grounds to comment on it. You shouldn't talk about more than it's appearance, but you have grounds to comment.

This idea of entitlement some of you "pros" have is insane. You paid for a license, or multiple licenses of a product. You liked the product, you bought more. End of transaction. If you pre-paid for an upgrade then you might have a leg to stand on, but thats not what happened, there was no pre-order, your FCP 7 install did not break.. If you don't like the new product, or if it doesn't fit your workflow, oh well, go buy something else. Hell, get out of my industry. Please though, for the love of god, stop acting so indignant, it is unbecoming of you.

I see people get ragged on all the time for hopping on new OS updates, even intra-version updates. Something in it breaks their workflow. They get called idiots for updating so quickly, for not waiting to see if everything will work right. I don't see how this is different from that.. except that your workflow hasn't been broken! The old way STILL WORKS! Even in their new OS.. Apple is even revisiting the idea of helping people expand their existing workflow providing that they were already a Volume License holder.

The reaction I have seen is just sad. There is nothing wrong with being disappointed, and civilly voicing those disappointments will probably lead to functionality being added, or brought back. But this talking down your nose to people because they don't fit your definition of 'worthy to speak'.. unprofessional to say the least.

That's incredibly myopic of you, since professionals were the target for FCP, and ostensibly FCPX.

Now obviously FCPX is not for professionals, it is a consumer/prosumer (I guess the 'pro' can also be short for 'prosumer') product, borrowing the name of a truly professional editing product.

Whether it works or not for prosumers is completely irrelevant for professionals.

Completely.

In fact, in the long run it is completely irrelevant for everyone since there isn't a market for a prosumer editing app. FCPX is marketed to a niche that simply doesn't exist.

All other editing apps are either truly professional or truly consumer apps. The anomaly of FCPExpress never did create a prosumer marketing niche, it was too 'complex' for prosumers.

And it is quite audacious to see prosumer whine about legitimate criticism of Apple and FCPX. Not to mention pathetic.

jaduffy108 · Jul 7, 2011

Aiwaz418 said:
Not to use the same, tired-sounding argument, but they shouldn't have tagged the 'Pro' moniker on this if it was lacking some of those 'things'.

As for choice, I had done, for almost a decade, and now have been forced into choosing something else due to seeming utter incompetence on the part of coders who have no understanding of how films and television are actually finished.

Aiwaz...seriously...give up trying to explain it to users such as 179202 and Reach who just can't "get it"...cuz they're "solo" editors. They just can't understand why 3rd party "solutions" (lame!), that will almost certainly complicate our workflows are not real solutions. Reach and Spook are right from their perspective...and just plain wrong for people working in broadcast TV and film. "Hollywood" and FCPX...it's over.

Sad... in general those who have invested the most in the FCP platform are the ones who got screwed.

midnightMachine · Jul 7, 2011

Atlantico said:
That's incredibly myopic of you, since professionals were the target for FCP, and ostensibly FCPX.

Now obviously FCPX is not for professionals, it is a consumer/prosumer (I guess the 'pro' can also be short for 'prosumer') product, borrowing the name of a truly professional editing product.

Whether it works or not for prosumers is completely irrelevant for professionals.

Completely.

In fact, in the long run it is completely irrelevant for everyone since there isn't a market for a prosumer editing app. FCPX is marketed to a niche that simply doesn't exist.

All other editing apps are either truly professional or truly consumer apps. The anomaly of FCPExpress never did create a prosumer marketing niche, it was too 'complex' for prosumers.

And it is quite audacious to see prosumer whine about legitimate criticism of Apple and FCPX. Not to mention pathetic.

First off, I do appreciate being called a prosumer so courteously.. but I'm not.

Second, I don't mind the criticisms. Many are quite legitimate. I have my own criticisms of the app, and I have submitted them to Apple as I have found them.

What I mind is the attitude. The fact that it is a product released it a line of highly developed professional apps opens it up to a world of criticism.. But I have been all over the place to see people acting so petty towards one another over this.

The reality stands:
FCP X doesn't fit the needs of large post houses currently.
FCP 7 and all of its apps still work currently, and they work under 10.7.
The former won't last forever.
People need to make a choice.
Acting boorish to other users on a forum while calling yourself a pro won't help anything. (for the record Atlantico, this one isn't directed at you..)

If all users of this app who want to see improvements constructively define them and tell Apple through whatever channels, I bet we will see changes. The same goes for third-parties who will (and hopefully soon) be developing for this new app.

If someone just can't wait, then that will be their choice. I said above, I'm getting to know Premiere Pro because if it happens that when FCP 7 is no longer a viable solution for me, FCP X isn't either, then I have something to fully migrate to with as little friction as possible. I hope I don't have to, but I like Premiere just fine, so if it comes to that, oh well.

I do ask that you please, do not mistake my issue with the way people are treating each other with me knocking on people who are disappointed by FCP X.

citi · Jul 7, 2011

the vj said:
Apple.... YOU ARE FIRED!!!

People still watch The Apprentice?

Nostromo · Jul 7, 2011

179202 said:
Big software upgrades always cost. Remember that Final Cut Pro X is a hell of a lot cheaper than Studio used to be. Apple just recognises that not everyone needs some things, so why not get a great basic functionality and let third parties handle those things?

All of these NLE software options are just tools for doing the job. Choose the one that suits you based on that and be done with it.

It looks like FCP X is moving away from the one size fits all approach of previous releases.

Which is a good thing. Remember when you could just buy Final Cut Pro, and then you had to buy the whole studio package to get it?

The current way of downloading software allows for a customized features and software approach, which I think is better. Just like Photoshop developed a whole plug-in community, FCP X could do this, too.

As long as updates on basic functionality are not as an extra cost (the usual clean-up of first version software) I think this all is good news.

midnightMachine · Jul 7, 2011

Nostromo said:
It looks like FCP X is moving away from the one size fits all approach of previous releases.

Which is a good thing. Remember when you could just buy Final Cut Pro, and then you had to buy the whole studio package to get it?

The current way of downloading software allows for a customized features and software approach, which I think is better. Just like Photoshop developed a whole plug-in community, FCP X could do this, too.

As long as updates on basic functionality are not as an extra cost (the usual clean-up of first version software) I think this all is good news.

I am hopeful of this too. DAWs have been the same way as well, you get the basic tools you need, a little in-house flair, and then you bring whatever extras you want or need to the table.

Not everyone has a huge post production workflow. I currently don't, in 3 months that might change, and my job goes like that. Once the API's get out to developers I think we'll have a whole new functionality on our hands.

And if not, I already like Adobe's other products.

handygeek · Jul 7, 2011

XSAN support news is interesting

I hate that only the bullet points are given. XSAN support could mean any number of things. I'd really like to know what they are doing to replace or improve which Final Cut Server offered. Will they have any kind of DAM to offer anymore, or are they out of that game altogether now? Will they opensource Final Cut Server? Etc.

fxtech · Jul 7, 2011

Rustus Maximus said:
Dear God in heaven...the willful blindness is staggering.

If you don't agree with me, maybe try making a point and we can have a discussion, instead of invoking God for some reason.

Nostromo · Jul 7, 2011

handygeek said:
I hate that only the bullet points are given. XSAN support could mean any number of things. I'd really like to know what they are doing to replace or improve which Final Cut Server offered. Will they have any kind of DAM to offer anymore, or are they out of that game altogether now? Will they opensource Final Cut Server? Etc.

I could imagine a really good DAM being developed right now.

Jacknusa · Jul 7, 2011

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; sv-se) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

The basic problem is simply this:
Apple pulled FCP 7 and we - a medium sized shop with 10 licences can not currently expand. And if you are starting a company today, Avid is your one and only choice (yes there is premiere and vegas and some others).

Yes, there is still some FCP 7 inventory out there, But only an hour ago I got an e-mail from ProMax saying they do Indeed have FCP 7 licenses in stock, but they will ONLY sell it to you if you ALSO buy a new Mac + Storage + another grab-bag of expensive goodies... A few years ago I lived in Florida, and if during a Hurricane you would say, sure, you can buy some water, but only if you buy this that and the other also, I think you would spend a good deal of your remaining life in prison...

We're in a hurricane now.

Jack

midnightMachine · Jul 7, 2011

Jacknusa said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; sv-se) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)Yes, there is still some FCP 7 inventory out there, But only an hour ago I got an e-mail from ProMax saying they do Indeed have FCP 7 licenses in stock, but they will ONLY sell it to you if you ALSO buy a new Mac + Storage + another grab-bag of expensive goodies... A few years ago I lived in Florida, and if during a Hurricane you would say, sure, you can buy some water, but only if you buy this that and the other also, I think you would spend a good deal of your remaining life in prison...

Jack

That kind of business is just awful.

There are a lot of outlets for older software though. It would be nice if Apple was more open with their FCP 7 Licensing. Though I really don't see how Avid is your only choice. I mean Premiere is a great option, and it has amazing connectivity with Adobe's other apps.. I know that is my first fall-back. It is very much in the vain of FCP 7. While I prefer FCP 7 I feel pretty at home with Adobe.

a.gomez · Jul 7, 2011

so it is a 300 dollars beta test - full product "coming soon"

lesreaper2009 · Jul 7, 2011

z4n3 said:
Have to agree with you, I have used Smoke, Flint, Flame, etc. on SGI and also use Smoke on OSX (Autodesk gave me a free seat for Smoke 2011 ) and have to admit Autodesk is really pushing the envelope!

I also have to agree with you about the Android market, but as a die hard Mac geek it gets harder to justify waiting more so as Androides are free here in Spain with a 18 contract! Vodafone are even giving 2x1 which is REALLY hard not to take up!

But as I have spent 8 months without any contract with my 3GS waiting for the iPhone 5 (the iPhone 4 was not an update for me) a few more months will not hurt me as I have over 5000 apps to lose and with the keynote update cannot make the switch just yet

Lucky you on the free copy of Smoke!!! They have a 3 year free education copy, but I'm not sure how I would swing that though I do work in the educational sector. Smoke was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING when I saw it on FxPHD (Best VFX training around dirt cheap! Use "lesreaper" as a referral when you sign up!), and Autodesk and the Foundry are really setting a new standard.

It's really tough for me too, as I ran an Apple Reseller store before the Apple Retail Store was available, and going on 20 years now of hard core Apple support. I was an early adopter of OS 7, 8, 9, X, iPod, iMac, iPhone and iPad. I've been Mr. Apple for a long time to people who know me. But I just can't see it anymore with where they're going based on their recent product decisions.

I've waited to upgrade my 3GS for ages now also, and I'm waiting to see what the iPhone 5 has, though I doubt I'll go with it unless it is something really special. I'm jealous of all the others countries that have gotten Samsung phones before the US. Maybe that's just saying something about the US these days really.

As an example, I almost got an AppleTV2 last week. But, the AppleTV2 doesn't have 1080p support. I think Steve just hates Blu Ray quality in all it's forms. So I went and bought a Roku for $20 less and it's way better. I'm sure Apple won't cry over the lost revenue, but as I am a film, web, and multimedia guy, I'm going to tell all my friends and associates not to bother with Apple either when it comes to TV media. That lost sale just turned into $1000 loss or more off of just me alone.

alex4d · Jul 7, 2011

I've just returned to Sam Johnson's twitter stream.

Apple have got in touch with him to give him a couple of clarifications:

2. Ability to buy ADDITIONAL #FCP7 licenses for EXISTING volume licensed deployments is something Apple are only looking into at this stage.

4. FCPX AJA plugins coming soon for tape capture and laybackcapture straight into FCPX events. Will not be a plugin but an AJA application.

I've updated the blog post that prompted this story.

sherlockholmes · Jul 7, 2011

fxtech said:
You can CALL it whatever you want, but it's a v1 product, not a V10. You and I both know what I meant.

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those who know binary, and those who do not.

res1233 · Jul 7, 2011

Aiwaz418 said:
Oh, 'everybody knows' that, eh?

That's like being sold a car without a working transmission and then being told afterward that it is simply a 'preview' of what is to come.

I'm an unabashed Apple fan, but these kinds of nonsensical apologies are simply sad.

It's more like a car without the radio, and right and left arrows to replace the steering wheel, plus warp drive to replace the engine. The catch is the warp drive only lets you go a lightyear at a time, no in-between distances. What we need from Apple is to let us warp however far we want! If we must use right and left arrows instead of a steering wheel, so be it. We can get used to that. Maybe we could even get used to a car with no radio, but give us a customizable warp drive!

Pardus · Jul 7, 2011

Question to the Dissapointed: Have you really taken the time to learn the new interface and functionality of FCPX or just hopped on the haters bandwagon.

Now with that said, obviously there are some areas of concern that Apple has openly addressed and that will effect workflows for some.

When I first tried it, I was super frustrated. Took me forever to figure out that you had to make a connected clip and new storyline to be able to add a transition to it. There were all sorts of things I assumed were missing from FCPX because it was not intuitive how to do it and with all the complaints out there, just figured it was another lacking feature.

Tired of wasting time on stupid things, I browsed around and found a really good tutorial from IZZY VIDEO to bring me up to speed on using the new app. It might be a little slow at times but after watching the 2.5 hour tutorial and spending some time going through the included project files, I have to say I am a big fan of FCPX. It might not be perfect for everyone right now but it's really got a lot of potential... Let's see where the conversation is in a year from now.

Just because a new version is out, it doesn't mean the previous one is all of a sudden useless. Just have a little patience.

mrial · Jul 7, 2011

Aiwaz418 said:
Yes, it upsets me because they sold a piece of software that is basically useless for film professionals and are planning on charging additional fees for functionality. It borders on criminal.

Would you rather them charging $1999.99 with it bloated to the max with stuff many will never use?

eyevuemedia · Jul 7, 2011

Falsely called "Pro"

First of all, I bought it and have used it. It is okay for certain workflows if you can avoid the crashes and slow background renders.

That being said, This is being marketed as a Pro app, which it clearly is not and the reason I successfully received a refund. Not too mention the $100 for Compressor and Motion that offer very little in terms of upgrades. It would have saved some hassles to call the Final Cut Express and make a fully featured version down the road called Pro.

If they would have released a product that had the same functionality as the prior version, but just made it 64 bit and better background rendering to go along with the new UI, I would have bought into it. They should have just waited another six months to work with 3rd party developers to have plugins ready to go at launch and had the features that broadcast pros would expect to see. They also should have allowed the ability to have both versions of FCP open at the same time during the transition period.

In about 3 or 4 years this will probably be back to the level it was, but most users will have migrated to Premiere or Avid by then. I started cutting spots with Avid 15 years ago and can easily switch back.

Reach · Jul 7, 2011

jaduffy108 said:
Aiwaz...seriously...give up trying to explain it to users such as 179202 and Reach who just can't "get it"...cuz they're "solo" editors. They just can't understand why 3rd party "solutions" (lame!), that will almost certainly complicate our workflows are not real solutions. Reach and Spook are right from their perspective...and just plain wrong for people working in broadcast TV and film. "Hollywood" and FCPX...it's over.

Sad... in general those who have invested the most in the FCP platform are the ones who got screwed.

Thanks for being civil. I just want to add that I in no way, shape of form am an apostle of FCP X. If I had to choose today, I'd delete FCP X and keep FCP 7 in a heartbeat. I've tried a couple projects on FCP X, and it's somewhat painful (and somewhat fun with something new). When it comes to productivity, the bad outweighs the good, though, so real work is still FCP 7. That is partly a result of FCP X being limited at the moment, and partly a result of me being better at FCP 7.

What I am, is someone that witholds judgment on FCP X''s future for a while, while of course condemning what has been a very poor release from Apple. That, and I'm also aware that using FCP Old for 10 years has made me somewhat proficient at that, so it's no wonder that I'm faster with FCP 7. I have to learn where stuff is, and I have to get it in my fingertips, if it is to ever become a real alternative to FCP 7.

That, and Apple has to work their asses off in finishing the application. If they don't, I'll go elsewhere. It's just that I'll go without any hard feelings - that's just life I guess.

mdriftmeyer · Jul 7, 2011

z4n3 said:
It amazes me that the iCrowd get so worked up about people knocking Apple, most of use Pro users are Mac users before most of them where even born!

Pro users are not knocking Apple for bringing something new to the table, it is at what price! I could not care aless the price point! as I have always made ALOT more in 2 months from inverting in Apples hardware & software! THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE here....

The issue most of us have is the lack of features! nothing more, nothing less.

People should realize that iMovie Pro , sorry FCP-X is not for everyone.

If you are not a pro user and make your living with Apples pro software, you should not really comment, I do not make comments on ilife even though Aperture has been converted into iPhoto Pro, BUT is has all the things it had beforehand! this is the key to the problems people have with FCP.

Anyways the whole situation is getting surreal I have jumped ship to AVID and although I still have FCP 7 and FCP X, time will tell what happens, but in the meantime I for one will happily use AVIDS tools on Apples hardware..

p.s.

Us pro users have lost so much to the iCrowd.. X-RAID, X-Serve, Shake, and now iMovie Pro. lets see what happens to FinalCut server and XSAN!

But at the end of the day we make a living from Apple´s software and purchase Apples High end hardware! but also have purchased Apples iGagets when they only had 5Gb harddrive and use our iPads 1 to control Apple Color

XSan is being integrated into OS X so keep your pants dry.

ericmooreart · Jul 7, 2011

After talking with people from other video houses and my own experience at my company, I think its too late for FCP X. Even if in a year all the pro features are back.

The professional community has lost trust in Apples pro line.

Thomas2006 · Jul 7, 2011

Final Cut Pro X Plus!

Once Apple releases the Plus! pack, people will not need to move to Premiere.

Reach · Jul 7, 2011

ericmooreart said:
After talking with people from other video houses and my own experience at my company, I think its too late for FCP X. Even if in a year all the pro features are back.

The professional community has lost trust in Apples pro line.

If it turns out that Apple was right in what they did, people will be coming back. If not, people will continue to be happy with the fact that they were right this time - not Apple. Good for them (you?).

We've all heard people wondering what on earth Apple is thinking with - that they have completely lost it - in the past. Often it turns out that Apple actually had some good ideas (that took time to develop properly), and the outcry is conveniently forgotten. (Apart from funny threads like the ones about the iPod at launch for example.

)

z4n3 said:
You have just underlined my argument to Apples solution to people who have invested over 1000 euros in XSAN!

Annoying as that may be for some, free (with server) is never really a bad thing for good technology. If it will be the basis of multi-user FCP in the future, that kind of accessibility is great in my opinion!

Apple to Allow Additional FCP 7 Enterprise Licenses and More on FCP X

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