Chinese Authorities Close Two Fake Apple Stores Over Permit Issues

WardC · Jul 25, 2011

I have noticed many are saying "Because they are selling genuine Apple products, what harm could be done by operating these stores?"

The whole point is -- These are not real Apple stores, the employees are not real, trained Apple employees, thus the "Apple Store experience" is not controlled by the company, as it is in the real Apple Stores. Apple dictates how things are done (and sold) in their stores, the employees are instructed on how to conduct business with customers, and in these "fake" Apple Stores, Apple has no control over what goes on, as far as the customer experience goes. The physical store is not up to Apple specs, and the products offered at the stores may not be the exact line-up, brands, and selection that Apple has approved to appear in the stores. Thus the physical store make-up, the employees, and the product selection is not up to Apple-spec....it is not an Apple authorized, trained, and controlled experience. So, these stores should be shutdown --- they are not offering the customers the "official" experience that Apple wants to deliver to the customers. That is the point I am trying to make.

derbothaus · Jul 25, 2011

MH01 said:
I get full Apple Warranty on stolen goods? I think the average consumer has to be careful what they buy and from who.

The "goods" are not shown to be stolen. They are a reseller like "Mac Mall".
If they were stolen then yes, shut them down. If they are trying to drum up business then it is up to the consumer to vet where they buy their stuff. Looking the part should be seen as an homage. There are plenty of stores in the US that do similar things to sell.

Trauma1 · Jul 25, 2011

un.titled said:
Taking something that doesn't belong to you or without permission is theft in most peoples book. Whether it's the official term or not, it works in describing the act we're currently discussing. Semantics.

You're too quick to dismiss this as semantics. It's legal terminology and can be defended as precisely as it is written.

accessoriesguy · Jul 25, 2011

At least the products were not nock offs, and indirectly hurt apple's image.

nylonsteel · Jul 25, 2011

What did aapl management say

What did aapl management say about aapl ideas and implementation?
I'm paraprasing here -
"Competition is good BUT people should invent their own stuff"
Thanks aapl for being straight forward - and fattening my stock portfolio worth $$$
I also though is was hilarious when some of those fake employees thought they were actually working for aapl - lol

irun5k · Jul 25, 2011

Sounds sort of like the WingHouse vs. Hooters at some level. WingHouse basically copied the entire Hooters experience- restaurant design, menus, waitress uniforms, etc.

nylonsteel · Jul 25, 2011

irun5k said:
Sounds sort of like the WingHouse vs. Hooters at some level. WingHouse basically copied the entire Hooters experience- restaurant design, menus, waitress uniforms, etc.

Ahh - hooters bring back some memories - i reamamber when i used to go to 5 different location during the gogo 1990's - the hooters back then used to have real cuties and VERY friendly - like rubbing up against you when you were ordering - yum
unfortunatelly hooters has gone down hill and ghetto washed up girls have been hired more often than not
if a winghouse shows up in my location i will check it out and see if the real hotties are being hired - that would be nice

JAT · Jul 25, 2011

Biolizard said:
Still, China's contempt for anything Western means the practice won't be stopped by the authorities, even if publicly they say otherwise.

Hmm, appears the authorities want their cut of business. That sounds just like the "West".

I'm just trying to figure out where that staircase goes.

daveathall · Jul 25, 2011

Not bothered. I don't live in China.

psingh01 · Jul 25, 2011

Don't worry, it's not a big deal. These aren't fake products...

So what if the store is designed to mimic and actual Apple Store and even has Apple's logo prominently displayed? So what if they are not an authorized reseller selling official products. What difference does it make where they come from? What are the chances that these are stolen products? And further more if Apple is able to identify blocks of serial numbers from these parcels that it could then refuse warranty to...really, what's the harm in that?

BiscottiGelato · Jul 25, 2011

Not a lawyer here of any sort in North America nor in China...

But say if this happened in North America, what'd happen? The max that Apple can do is to get an injunction from the court for a trademark infringement and stop the store from using the Apple logo because they are not licensed as an authorized reseller, which can probably use the logo to a certain extent? Then the next step is they can sue the store for damages?

I don't think store designs, etc are IPs and as such it's not illegal to mimic them at all.

Assuming Apple have applied for trademark on their logo in China, then they'd have to go to the court to get an injunction on the store first before authorities can do anything at all. Then they can sue the store for damages. The next step is on Apple. I don't see why people are blaming the Chinese authorities here. At least it's not yet the right time to do so.

In fact, in North America, if Apple is not shown to be proactive in taking reasonable steps in protecting their IP, it can be later argued that the IP does not even apply?

In Chinese terms, short of ripping off the trademarked Apple logo which is illegal; Mimicing Apple store front, staff, and customer service to drive up business is called smart business.

I am not trying to make Chinese businesses more ethical than they seem to be. A lot of them can be shady. I think tho Western media is very quick to put in negative spin on anything and everything China, which such propaganda have influenced the masses to do the same. Which in my opinion is even more un-ethical and despicable.

Drunken Master · Jul 25, 2011

JAT said:
I'm just trying to figure out where that staircase goes.

More computers and accessories upstairs:

JAT · Jul 25, 2011

Drunken Master said:
More computers and accessories upstairs:

LOL, thanks. But you gotta admit that pic in post 1 looks like there's nothing but roof and nowhere to go.

Actually, that looks superior to most Apple Stores. No wait for sales help.

Tonewheel · Jul 25, 2011

derbothaus said:
The "goods" are not shown to be stolen. They are a reseller like "Mac Mall".
If they were stolen then yes, shut them down. If they are trying to drum up business then it is up to the consumer to vet where they buy their stuff. Looking the part should be seen as an homage. There are plenty of stores in the US that do similar things to sell.

You're entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts. Any trademark attorney would laugh at that statement.

hkenneth · Jul 25, 2011

Yamcha said:
I'm not sure I understand this, I'm assuming they are selling real Apple products, but they are not an authorized Apple dealer?

EDIT:
From my understanding they are selling retail products.. I don't see how this could harm Apple in anyway..

There has been a long time that Apple did not have any official retail store in China, but they did authorize local retailers to sell Apple products. It was very common that those stores mimicked the white sleek store design, and since there was no real official store at that time, no one cares (Did MacRumors ever pay attention to Chinese customers before 2008?). And then, suddenly Apple changed their strategy and opened 2 stores in Beijing and Shanghai, and those previously authorized retailer stores in other cities suddenly all become "fake"?

DisMyMac · Jul 25, 2011

Shut down the phony Chinese restaurants operating in the U.S. They're all cheap imitations of Asian cuisine, not authorized to do business or serve customers.

Copying the "look and feel" of the Orient is a crime - Americans need to respect Asian customs and law if they want to do business.

Tonewheel · Jul 25, 2011

BiscottiGelato said:
Not a lawyer here of any sort in North America nor in China...

But say if this happened in North America, what'd happen? The max that Apple can do is to get an injunction from the court for a trademark infringement and stop the store from using the Apple logo because they are not licensed as an authorized reseller, which can probably use the logo to a certain extent? Then the next step is they can sue the store for damages?

I don't think store designs, etc are IPs and as such it's not illegal to mimic them at all.

Assuming Apple have applied for trademark on their logo in China, then they'd have to go to the court to get an injunction on the store first before authorities can do anything at all. Then they can sue the store for damages. The next step is on Apple. I don't see why people are blaming the Chinese authorities here. At least it's not yet the right time to do so.

In fact, in North America, if Apple is not shown to be proactive in taking reasonable steps in protecting their IP, it can be later argued that the IP does not even apply?

In Chinese terms, short of ripping off the trademarked Apple logo which is illegal; Mimicing Apple store front, staff, and customer service to drive up business is called smart business.

I am not trying to make Chinese businesses more ethical than they seem to be. A lot of them can be shady. I think tho Western media is very quick to put in negative spin on anything and everything China, which such propaganda have influenced the masses to do the same. Which in my opinion is even more un-ethical and despicable.

Well, you are painfully correct with one of your statements: "Not a lawyer here of any sort in North America nor in China..."

hkenneth · Jul 25, 2011

Navdakilla said:
It was making apple $$, should have just kept it.

That's the point. They are actually making profits for Apple... for free~. I believe even Apple won't care about that unless they plan to open their "real" store in the same area.

hkenneth · Jul 25, 2011

WardC said:
I have noticed many are saying "Because they are selling genuine Apple products, what harm could be done by operating these stores?"

The whole point is -- These are not real Apple stores, the employees are not real, trained Apple employees, thus the "Apple Store experience" is not controlled by the company, as it is in the real Apple Stores. Apple dictates how things are done (and sold) in their stores, the employees are instructed on how to conduct business with customers, and in these "fake" Apple Stores, Apple has no control over what goes on, as far as the customer experience goes. The physical store is not up to Apple specs, and the products offered at the stores may not be the exact line-up, brands, and selection that Apple has approved to appear in the stores. Thus the physical store make-up, the employees, and the product selection is not up to Apple-spec....it is not an Apple authorized, trained, and controlled experience. So, these stores should be shutdown --- they are not offering the customers the "official" experience that Apple wants to deliver to the customers. That is the point I am trying to make.

Before 2008, Apple didn't have any official stores in China, but they did have hundreds of local stores to sell their products (Apple listed the names of those hundreds stores on their official Chinese website). Although those local stores were not limited to sell only Apple products, they were commonly doing so, and marked themselves as Apple stores. But my point is, if a company not willing to expand its business by themselves (opening more "real" stores) but at the same time forbidding others to fulfill the customer needs, that is pathetic. Chinese customers like the feeling of Apple stores, and yet they don't have "real" stores in most places except Shanghai and Beijing since last 2 years. So what should they do? Fly to the US so that they can see a "real" store with "officially trained" employees? Will Apple give them a reimbursement for their air tickets?

I feel very sorry but Apple, although it always marks itself as being innovative, has been very conservative in China's market.

Trauma1 · Jul 25, 2011

BiscottiGelato said:
I don't think store designs, etc are IPs and as such it's not illegal to mimic them at all.

Actually, it depends.

Retail chain stores don't simply put something up on a shelf. They have things called planograms. There is a reason why things are where they are. Exorbitant amounts of money have been spent on this kind of research, so much to the point that companies build mock-up stores and they follow every single movement research participants make in the store. This is why popular kids products are low on shelves so that they are are eye/hand level, why kids products are located towards the rears of stores, why popular products are at the front of the store, etc. It also accounts for the proportions of Product A to Product B to Product C on display, and also the amount of physical floor space dedicated to them.

So a lot of work goes into into design and layout. It is well documented and held within a company as a trade secret. Now it's a no-brainer to put headphones next to audio devices and create organized, clutter-free product displays. Creating a similar environment like that is not illegal. However, if through observation the environment starts to become nearly identical, so much to a point where it creates confusion for a reasonable person, then that is bordering trademark infringement. If someone was able to get the documents with all of the exact calculations, dimensions, specifications, etc. made by the company/research firm, then that would be intellectual property theft.

iMacThere4Iam · Jul 25, 2011

I wonder if someone will open a fake Microsoft Store nearby.

DisMyMac · Jul 25, 2011

hkenneth said:
I feel very sorry but Apple, although it always marks itself as being innovative,

Not just innovative, but very progressive and tolerant. Yet some Apple fans become Atlas Shrugged-thumpers when they see others succeeding.

ThunderSkunk · Jul 25, 2011

The only thing I'm wondering is where they're getting their stock from.

Are they buying it retail from somewhere else and marking it up, so the customer is paying double markup?

...perhaps they're buying small quantities from resellers who make a smaller margin & then add their own...

weird.

hkenneth · Jul 25, 2011

iMacThere4Iam said:
I wonder if someone will open a fake Microsoft Store nearby.

You make my day lol.

BaldiMac · Jul 25, 2011

I am amazed by the number of people who are defending these fake stores. This isn't just about trademark violations or copying a store layout. It is fraud. Plain and simple. How is that acceptable?

Chinese Authorities Close Two Fake Apple Stores Over Permit Issues

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