Advice From A Genius: Should You Buy AppleCare?

jlgolson said:

it's a protection plan because it includes tech support.

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This.

I never buy AppleCare because of the extended warranty (though like others it's come in handy with my iPhone for that reason). I buy AppleCare because of the unlimited tech support. If anything goes wrong or if I ever have any questions about how to use the hardware or software, knowledgeable help is just a phone call away. To me that is well worth the extra price.

applecare

My daughter was doing a semester abroad in Granada Spain about 3-4 years ago. She had problems w her Powerbook and took it to the local Applecare provider. They would only fix problem for approx $130.

I got in touch with Apple corporate and was told that they have "no control" over applecare service centers in Spain.

sclawis300 said:

So basically buy it I guess.

One other item to note. I never purchased warranties on other computers because the people were such a pain to deal with. "Is it plugged in? Lets try to restart? You have already done all that, well we need to do it again." Much better with Apple, at least it used to be, I have not called in for 3.5 years because nothing has gone wrong (knock on wood) for that long.

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I agree with your statement but must make a comment. Sadly in the PC world if you don't ask those simple questions you would be surprised how often that is indeed the case. That being said I like to think MAC users are a little smarter and those questions are unnecessary.

abakker said:

remember guys, the iPhone applecare covers the earbuds. forever. and the dock cords 2. Since the original iPhone, I've replaced 2 fraying dock cords, and 19 pairs of earbuds. they cost $29 each. thats $551 total. def worth the apple care.

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I've had all of mine replaced, no matter the age, or if in Apple Care or not. Just take it to a Genius Bar, show them the ear buds that have fallen apart, and they swap them for a new pair under the counter. No paperwork required.

zin said:

Do you know which EU Directive this was? I can't find it and would like to know the specifics of it in the UK, since on the briefing it says member states can implement longer minimum durations of warranty.

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Look up the 'Sales of Goods Act', you will find the retailer is responsible for 6 years, and try to make sense of 'reasonable', 'durable' and 'fit for purpose'.

jlgolson said:

Anyway, AppleCare isn't "insurance" -- it's a protection plan because it includes tech support.

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Yes it is. It just doesn't include accidental damage or loss. Apple Care is actually not a policy with Apple, but a third party insurance company that act as an underwriter. I can't remember who the company is in the UK, they may change between different countries too. You can find out the underwriter if you read the small print included in the Apple Care.

i had it on my laptop, tried to use it after i stuck a mini disk i the optical drive and it wasnt covered

winston1236 said:

i had it on my laptop, tried to use it after i stuck a mini disk i the optical drive and it wasnt covered

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If you had taken the Mac into the store, they'd have pulled out the disc for free. I actually did this on my first Mac (MacBook 2006) and they opened 'er up and took out the offending disc.

I typically don't buy it on personal computers, simply because I have a tendency to upgrade quite often. Usually before the year is out. I use my iPad so much that I know I will upgrade it every time a new one comes out. It makes little sense to add an expensive service plan when I know I will probably not own the device for much more than a year.

Apple products are great for someone like me, because the resale value on @1 year old equipment, in good condition, is usually quite high. I end up paying very little out of pocket for the new product as a result.

On the iPhone, I got it. Being able to get subsidized pricing every two years means that I'll probably only be buying one every two years. If I had to pay for mechanical problems, or get stuck buying a new one at the full price before I could upgrade I would not be happy.

For the Mac Pros we use in our business, those have it. We don't upgrade those like I upgrade my personal stuff. We'll use them 'til they die. Unless they release a rack-mountable version. That would have immediate benefits, but that's entirely unrelated.

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Why wouldn't you upgrade on the cycles? Your leaving money on the table if you don't. What I've done is toss my old gem on eBay each time and it's covered my upgrade cost every time. Ive never had to drag out an iPhone past it's useful life and my eBay customer has paid for my next phone each time.

Their customer service is unrivaled IMHO, but their wide profit margins and 76B in liquid assets should merit more than 1 year of warranty. I should be able to buy a $2000.00 computer and not expect out of pocket repairs for several years (at least 2).


Sadly, the Apple Repair Plan seems like a necessary evil when you're investing so much.

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Trust me. Educated consumers stay clear of extended warranties. Food for thought. Companies are in business to make money. They would not offer a service or product that was not profitable. During product design and development mtbf and fault analyses are performed and then aggregated with historical failure data, customer compaints, problem reports etc. This information provides guidance as to expected reliability in the field which is then fit to a statistical distribution to estimate the reliability of the entire population of the fielded product. Basically when apple releases a product they for the most part have a good estimate on the number of failures within their useful life. They set the cost of AppleCare to cover any possible inwarranty repairs and replacements and build in a hefty profit margin. Sort to get technical but this is the reality of the warranty business. You may make out but odds are stacked against you getting value out of every warranty you provide.

I agree with this article. I tend not to buy applecare for any product where the cost of APP is 15% or greater of the actual product I'm trying to add it on. But, APP for 15in -17in mbp, I would always add within the year.

Those of you vehemently against the concept of AppleCare as "a conspiracy because they want my money and they want to eat my children and just take all my damn money I know a lot about the way these things work because I've been around the block" type of thing is beyond ridiculous. Like hearing a bunch of bald children cry.

Don't you get it? Apple DOES eventually make a profit. But not off of AppleCare, you daft bimbos. It's all about customer loyalty.

If my Magic Trackpad and my Wireless Keyboard break outside my warranty on my iMac, the price of that covers what I paid for the protection plan. And you better believe that I will continue to buy Apple products after getting two shiny, expensive accessories without needed to buy them again brand new - and even more-so, have them covered for two years after that? Here in the US, that AppleCare cost me 169. (I'm aware that a Trackpad and a Keyboard cost 138 and not 169, but you get the idea.) Chump change, I spend more on gas in two weeks than on AppleCare in three years.

Not that I'm saying the system is perfect, but really, some of you guys need to take a few xanax and look at reality before you sit down at the keyboard. You don't make any sense. Whereas AppleCare does. But oh you're not listening to reason, you're too busy BUYING A HOUSE WITH THE BAZILLIONS OF DOLLHAIRS YOU SAVED NOT BUYING STUPID APPLECARE.

It's about profit, but profit *later*. You already overpaid for the well-designed hardware so that you can use above-average software. They don't want more of your money on your CURRENT Mac or iOS device, they want the other theoretical tens of thousands of dollars on your Macs, iPhones, and iPads in the future. Not to mention the great reviews you give by word-of-mouth to inspire more people to spend the extra cash and try one of these products at least once.

AppleCare is what makes you stay with Apple. Not having AppleCare is what makes you an annoying old fogey on a message board who buys a replacement accessory for 69.00 but then complains about 169.00 on top of a 2,000.00 purchase? Please. No, seriously. Think instead of flapping your gums, it's embarrassing.

I can't speak to Europe, but even there it seems like there's confusion as to what is law and what is something people tell themselves just so they can talk themselves out of doing something as simple and adult as protecting an investment. Third parties? Are you kidding me? If there is one company that is the most obligated and willing to make sure you enjoy your product it's... oh, I don't know... maybe the one who made it?

Simply put: If you invest a little more in Apple, they will invest a little more in you. If not, you're the guy who is yelling at a bunch of college students behind a bar in the middle of your downtown Apple Store making an ass of yourself until they have to escort you out or call the cops, just to have you buy the next big thing.

Buy. AppleCare.

I’ve gotten AppleCare about half the time (and I always decide during the final week of the first year).

Whenever I’ve gotten it, I’ve needed it! And gotten good service and good vale.

Whenever I’ve skipped it, I haven’t needed it! Good thing I’m not superstitious.

My first Mac (after despising Apple for years and getting over it) was a PowerBook, and they gave me Apple Care service even though I bought it for a problem (dead HD) that happened shortly AFTER the 1-year deadline. I got my machine back with a new, larger HD, but I also got a complete shiny new outer shell! Because they noticed the hinges were soft (true, but not enough to bother me) and volunteered to swap the whole case to make it like-new. I also had a key that would sometimes fail to register—not often, but I mentioned it. So they threw in a new keyboard. It was like getting a brand-new computer for free. (Screen was fine.) Like all my Macs, that one still runs fine countless years later. My grandmother has it.

I’ve also gotten iPhone service (GPS issue) after warranty expiration, without even buying AppleCare. Apple is very reasonable and flexible! Dealing with them is night and day different from dealing with other nightmarish companies: Dell, Acer, AT&T, Adobe, and Microsoft come to mind.

In my experience from having several Mac's over the past few years, it Applecare is a must. The reason for this is due to the quality of service that Apple has provided.
My first Mac, a 20" iMac, I purchased Applecare. I never had any problems beyond the first year, however I received free phone support for software help that I needed.
Then here is the best part about Applecare, involving my 13" Macbook Pro. I received the 2.53 GHz 2009 version for a Christmas present. A few months after using the system I noticed that the display had some dead pixels and a unnatural curvature. As soon as I noticed this I brought the system into my local Apple Store, they were quick to help and came up with a solution quickly. They ended up replacing the display enclosure since these imperfections weren't normal. About a week later I was called by the store and it was ready to pick up. However, upon arrival to the store to pickup my system I noticed that the display wasn't completely aligned with the bottom case. They understood the issue and said they could re-align the display. About 15 minutes of them being in the back, the Genius comes back empty handed and said that he had some bad news. He says, "It appears that during the alignment process I accidentally dropped your system." I was quite shocked, and after he said that he might have a solution for me. I told him that I can't really go any longer without my system, so he said he would take that into consideration. A few minutes later, he comes out with the manager. He then tells me that a repair would be out of the question and due to the trouble he would simply give me a replacement system. I said ok, then he went to the back and came out with a brand new sealed machine. It turned out that he also gave me the current model that was currently on sale, so I ended up with the 2010 2.66 GHz model. I was very satisfied, Applecare paid itself off.
But wait, the story gets even better. A few months ago, I was using the machine at school. I left my Macbook unattended for a few minutes while I talked to my teacher about something. Since my system was in a backpack, I thought nothing would happen to it. I had used the system 30 minutes before I put it away so it was fine before that. After I finished talking to my teacher I went back to using my system, I noticed there was a huge dent on the left side of the bottom case. I knew Apple would sure not cover me this time around. After I got home from school, I went to the Apple Store and showed them the damage. The Genius was shocked and wondered how that kind of dent was possible. She gave me a one time exception and took it into repair and replaced the display assembly and bottom case. A week later I picked up the system, but I found some problems so I brought it back. The store was not sure what it was this time, so they took it back in. After two weeks they gave me a call and they had sent it to Apple for repair and it was ready for me to pick it up. When I picked it up, the system worked great on first impression. Since they did a clean install of everything, the system was basically like new, around $1500 in repairs had been done by this point. On first startup, I went through the setup and started using it. When I started to use the internet, it would kernel panic, and it did this several times. I brought it back the same day and they ran a hardware test and said the wireless card had failed, even though they had replaced it during the previous repair. I had no idea what the store would do then, so the Genius went to the back and got some information for me. She soon came out with a new sealed machine, I was completely shocked. I ended up receiving a 2011 Macbook Pro 13" with a 2.3 GHz i5 processor.
So after this adventure of the past few years with the Macbook Pro, Applecare has saved me nearly $4000+ in repairs. I am glad I spent the money for Applecare, it has been well worth it.

Not that any of that surprises me. As a general rule if electronics do not fail in the first 90 days chances are they are never going to fail inside the of an extended warranty.

Hence the reason I rarely if ever really buy an extended warranty.

I'm not a fan, myself ....

I think it's too easy for a former Apple employee to see the positives of Applecare and tout it as a "smart buy", since they're going to essentially hear from all the people who wind up with a broken Mac or iPod/iPhone.

If you step away from that and just look at the math and the odds, Applecare is rarely worth it. For example, he argues that the cost for a flat portable repair is almost as much as Applecare. Ok - fine, but most flaws are going to show themselves in the first year of use where the standard warranty has you covered anyway. After that? How long are you really planning on keeping your portable? I don't know if I've EVER kept one longer than about 3 years before it made more sense to sell it off and upgrade to something new or newer? In that 2 year "past the warranty" time-span, you definitely *could* need 1 repair, but I'd say if you take decent care of it, you just as likely won't. If you do? Fine, pay the regular price for it and you're no worse off than if you paid for Applecare. Heck, if your issue is just a worn out battery or a frayed AC adapter, you can buy those for less than the cost of Applecare by far.

For a desktop Mac, Applecare seems like an even bigger losing proposition to me. I've owned 2 Mac Pros which have NEVER given me issues, and one is 4 years old now and the other is 6 years old. Mac Minis are reliable too. Most of your issues on them are going to be a bad stick of RAM or a hard drive failure, either of which any competent service tech could swap for you inexpensively. iMacs are possibly an exception since they're "all in one" and getting tougher and tougher to open up and work on with each revision. But even then, they're not generally as costly as a Macbook Pro or Mac Pro. If you buy one, get a couple good years of use out of it, and then something acts up? Heck, you might just do best reselling it as-is and then buying a newer refurbished model off Apple's web site, vs. having paid hundreds more for Applecare on it, up front. I've seen a lot of cases with iMacs where the repair wasn't even done right, or didn't fix all the issues, the first time around. So regardless of warranty coverage, you might have a lot of hassle and downtime before you get a good working one back, if you go the repair route.

sclawis300 said:

So basically buy it I guess.

One other item to note. I never purchased warranties on other computers because the people were such a pain to deal with. "Is it plugged in? Lets try to restart? You have already done all that, well we need to do it again." Much better with Apple, at least it used to be, I have not called in for 3.5 years because nothing has gone wrong (knock on wood) for that long.

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Hellhammer said:

AppleCare is pointless for European customers since our consumer rights cover manufacturing flaws for reasonable amount of time (minimum of two years for computers here in Finland). Find out your rights before buying AppleCare, you might be abe to get the same coverage without it.

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Not great advice!

We have consumer protection in New Zealand as well, but just try and get it sorted within a few hours. I've had 2 replacement iPhones and both replaced the same day. Apple Care gives me IT support for my mac mini server for 3 years. Apple Care is the chepest IT support you can buy.

The thing is, I can afford to buy applecare.

But I can ill-afford shelling about another 2+k to buy an imac or another replacement (in my country's currency) if it does break down. There's no such thing as "It's 10% spoilt". It is either broken or its not.

So for that peace of mind, I would rather just get it.

Shrink said:

If I remember correctly, after 90 days (without Applecare), each tech support call costs $50.00!! It doesn't take many calls to pay for the contract. And if you need as much help as I did (and do), the cost would be prohibitive. without Applecare.

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This.

I do not live near an Apple Store. Nearest one is 2 hours away. So the phone support is essential. I've never bought AppleCare before. But I used it for the first time this year (within the 90 days) a phone call about a Magic Mouse dead on arrival. And it was replaced hassle free. So for the phone call support alone I'd say it's worth it.

KiwiAdventure said:

Not great advice!

We have consumer protection in New Zealand as well, but just try and get it sorted within a few hours. I've had 2 replacement iPhones and both replaced the same day. Apple Care gives me IT support for my mac mini server for 3 years. Apple Care is the chepest IT support you can buy.

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I have. When my PS3 broke, I called the importer as they are responsible for repairs. In less than 10 minutes, I had the address where it had to be sent along with all other stuff I needed. The actual repair took about a week and a half but I can't blame them if they had other repairs or didn't have the parts in stock. After all, a repair can take more than a week, even with AppleCare.

roznstyle said:

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Trust me. Educated consumers stay clear of extended warranties. Food for thought. Companies are in business to make money. They would not offer a service or product that was not profitable. During product design and development mtbf and fault analyses are performed and then aggregated with historical failure data, customer compaints, problem reports etc. This information provides guidance as to expected reliability in the field which is then fit to a statistical distribution to estimate the reliability of the entire population of the fielded product. Basically when apple releases a product they for the most part have a good estimate on the number of failures within their useful life. They set the cost of AppleCare to cover any possible inwarranty repairs and replacements and build in a hefty profit margin. Sort to get technical but this is the reality of the warranty business. You may make out but odds are stacked against you getting value out of every warranty you provide.

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Thank you explaining actuarial science so succinctly Should I trust your advice for life, auto, home, renters, dental, gas line, water line, and health warranties?

I know there's a lot of 'buy applecare' zealots out there, but I disagree. Let me offer my logic:

If you buy one mac, and that mac does require a repair outside of regular warranty, then yes, applecare may indeed 'more than pay for itself'.

But me, I've bought more than a dozen Apple products in the past 5 years. In that case, the 'always buy applecare' argument would mean I would have spent MORE than a couple thousand dollars on applecare... much more than the cost of repair on one mishap.

In other words: I would have to had to have a FEW BIG REPAIRS that applecare covers in order for it to 'pay for itself'.

Furthermore, every problem I've ever had with a mac that was coverable under applecare happened while still under the regular warranty anyway.

Finally, since applecare doesn't cover dropping my laptop (which I did once) or spilling water on a laptop (happened once as well) the two big repairs I've needed to do in the past 5 years would still have been out of pocket.

Bottom Line: I've saved A LOT OF MONEY over my life of using mac products by NEVER buying applecare.

Why applecare falls down

So I ran into troubles with my mbp last year, that I had a couple of hard disks die on me, and rather than wait days to get the HD replaced, I ended up replacing it myself in an hour.

If apple were serious about support, they'd offer some form of rapid turn around support, but they fail to have spare parts even in their larger stores and expect people who rely on their MBP for their livelihood to do without for days and even weeks.... Dell offers a 4 hour turn around service on hardware if its mission critical, Apple is free to charge more for it but they need to be quicker on the ball for fixing their hardware, particularly as build quality has dropped over the years.

This MBP I didn't get applecare, I had a dodgy fan, warranty expired, i replaced the dodgy fan for a fraction of the cost of the applecare. I'm not recommending this as a solution, its a terrible solution that i turned to in desperation because applecare wasn't giving me a reasonable business service.

After my drama with my MBP i did look into applecare certification to make my life easier, so my 15 years of repairing my laptops and desktops might be allowed by apple to fix my computers without violating warrantees, but of course its so cost-prohibitive...

Hellhammer said:

AppleCare is pointless for European customers since our consumer rights cover manufacturing flaws for reasonable amount of time (minimum of two years for computers here in Finland). Find out your rights before buying AppleCare, you might be abe to get the same coverage without it.

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I wouldn't say necessarily all European customers. AppleCare is very useful because UK warranties only last 1 year, so AC gave me two extra years of cover. I guess for Finland that's not so great a deal, but it still does give you that extra year.

I own an old white CrackBook and so the AppleCare saved me a few times... Admittedly, I may have been offered the replacement casing outside of warranty anyway, but I had battery problems, PSU problems AND a motherboard problem that would've cost me well over what I paid for the AC (which was on special offer when I bought it over the phone).

Incidentally, what fo0bar said about the 1-year warranty would not be the case in the UK. The warranty is the responsibility of the shop from which you bought the item, and so lasts a whole year from your purchase date. Companies in the UK that fob you off telling you to contact the original manufacturer are shirking their legal responsibility.

martincreative said:

I would recommend it for a phone, ipod touch (classics and below will generally not break in the two year time frame anyways), or ipad - Apple TV can probably be skipped.

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Interesting... iPod touches are more likely to break than iPod classics? That comes as a surprise to me. I'd have guessed the other way round due to the moving parts (HD) inside the Classic...