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Production of the iPad 3 Retina Display Remains a Challenge

KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
ludalukeerb said:
Knight you miss the point
Click to expand...

Says the guy who then proceeds to talk about aspect ratios rather than pixel density, which this article is about.

Nice. :rolleyes: I think it's you that's quite missing the point (or lacking the technical expertise to differentiate the 2).

ludalukeerb said:
irritating bars
Click to expand...

The bars aren't irritating at all. They tell me that I have more TV to show more content than just squished films where everything is done on an horizontal plane. Sometimes I like my 4:3 content, or my 16:9 content. And that's just video. For something more general like an iPad or a computer, the squarer the better. Web pages, documents, most of what we do in computing scrolls vertically, not horizontally.

Anyway, to answer your rant : That's what Airplay and the HDMI output are for.
 
L

ludalukeerb

macrumors newbie
Jul 5, 2011
23
0
UK
KnightWRX said:
Says the guy who then proceeds to talk about aspect ratios rather than pixel density, which this article is about.

Nice. :rolleyes: I think it's you that's quite missing the point (or lacking the technical expertise to differentiate the 2).



The bars aren't irritating at all. They tell me that I have more TV to show more content than just squished films where everything is done on an horizontal plane. Sometimes I like my 4:3 content, or my 16:9 content. And that's just video. For something more general like an iPad or a computer, the squarer the better. Web pages, documents, most of what we do in computing scrolls vertically, not horizontally.

Anyway, to answer your rant : That's what Airplay and the HDMI output are for.
Click to expand...


Quote 1.... I beg to differ, but I'm not here to argue, just to add my POV

Quote 2.... each to their own, but I do understand what your saying about web pages etc... as I prefer viewing webpages on my iPhone in potrait rather than landscape

I have a laptop for plugging into my tv, or a PS3, the iPad would merely be for using whilst out and about or sat around, if I'm going to watch a film generally it will be on a tv and in 5.1.

Doesn't the iPad only upscale images when plugged in via HDMI?
 
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blackcrayon

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2003
2,255
1,824
ludalukeerb said:
Doesn't the iPad only upscale images when plugged in via HDMI?
Click to expand...

No, the iPad 2 can either mirror its output, or output "true" 720p or 1080p depending on the app/settings.
Ironically, an iPad 2 mirrored in portrait mode needs a 1080p display to faithfully show all the pixels (since it is 1024 vertically). And if an app is specifically written for it, it can output a full 1080p in landscape mode (Real Racing 2 for example). If anything the iPad would have to downscale images if you connected it to a 720p display and tried to mirror in portrait.
 
CJM

CJM

macrumors 68000
May 7, 2005
1,535
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I'm all for a hi-rez iPad but what about the content that's gonna be on it? Driving video and games at that resolution can't be easy. And besides, any traditional video won't be able to take advantage of the pixels.
 
KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
ludalukeerb said:
Quote 1.... I beg to differ, but I'm not here to argue, just to add my POV
Click to expand...

That's nice. Try to stay on-topic though : Pixel density. When we talk about aspect ratios, I'll let you know. ;)

CJM said:
I'm all for a hi-rez iPad but what about the content that's gonna be on it? Driving video and games at that resolution can't be easy. And besides, any traditional video won't be able to take advantage of the pixels.
Click to expand...

Upscaled video will, driving video and games at that resolution doesn't matter. You can display them at lower resolutions and just upscale the framebuffer before display, which should be less painful on the GPU.

Driving such resolutions itself isn't a problem for modern hardware.
 
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alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,688
170
KnightWRX said:
The power ? You realise we were running 1024x768 back in oh... around 1996 if not earlier than that right ?

Are you saying tech close to 15 years later can't handle a paltry 4x increase in pixel density ? :eek:
Click to expand...

this is ARM CPU's were talking about. they aren't that high tech
 
KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
alent1234 said:
this is ARM CPU's were talking about. they aren't that high tech
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I'm pretty sure these ARM CPUs are more powerful than even the top of the line Intel beasts we were using back in 1996. ;) I'm also pretty sure "4x more powerful" is not even a stretch of the imagination. In 1996, my computer was a Pentium 100 mhz, yet it was capable of pushing out double buffered 1600x1200 for a windows desktop, all of that from my 4 MB Matrox Millennium that didn't even support hardware based texture mapping.

And we're more talking about the PowerVR GPUs vs the GPUs of 1996 here, moreso than processors. Again, I'm pretty sure 4x is not even in the equation at this point, it's much, much more than that.
 
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blackcrayon

macrumors 68020
Mar 10, 2003
2,255
1,824
KnightWRX said:
I'm pretty sure these ARM CPUs are more powerful than even the top of the line Intel beasts we were using back in 1996. ;) I'm also pretty sure "4x more powerful" is not even a stretch of the imagination. In 1996, my computer was a Pentium 100 mhz, yet it was capable of pushing out double buffered 1600x1200 for a windows desktop, all of that from my 4 MB Matrox Millennium that didn't even support hardware based texture mapping.

And we're more talking about the PowerVR GPUs vs the GPUs of 1996 here, moreso than processors. Again, I'm pretty sure 4x is not even in the equation at this point, it's much, much more than that.
Click to expand...

I agree. Computers much less powerful than the iPad were able to do fine with fairly high resolution displays. And it's not as if 3D games need to work directly at maximum resolution. They'll still look amazing even somewhere between 1024 and 2048. But things that are mostly just "accelerated 2D" like web browsing, reading, etc. will probably have no issues with the A6 that's bound to go along with the higher resolution.
 
notjustjay

notjustjay

macrumors 603
Sep 19, 2003
6,056
167
Canada, eh?
KnightWRX said:
The argument for "pixel doubling" (obviously, 4 pixels to represent 1) for developers is hog wash. Developers have been designing stuff to work on displays with no fixed resolutions for decades now. Why would it suddenly be a challenge on iOS ? Answer : it's not.
Click to expand...

If you're an active developer who is still working on his app, being asked to rewrite a version to support a new intermediary resolution is probably not a big deal, no.

But this takes time, and effort, and I can see Apple's desire to have everything ready for day 1. And what about all the other existing software out there? Some developers are slow, or have abandoned their projects altogether. What do you do with those? You either have to leave it as-is, or do some kind of automated scaling (like how iPhone apps run on the iPad).

Pixel doubling is the easiest way to handle legacy apps -- of which there must be thousands.
 
KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
notjustjay said:
If you're an active developer who is still working on his app, being asked to rewrite a version to support a new intermediary resolution is probably not a big deal, no.

But this takes time, and effort, and I can see Apple's desire to have everything ready for day 1. And what about all the other existing software out there? Some developers are slow, or have abandoned their projects altogether. What do you do with those? You either have to leave it as-is, or do some kind of automated scaling (like how iPhone apps run on the iPad).

Pixel doubling is the easiest way to handle legacy apps -- of which there must be thousands.
Click to expand...

Model.
View.
Controller.

Changing the GUI around is not a problem if you haven't coded your way into a big bowl of spaghetti.
 
Donka

Donka

macrumors 68030
May 3, 2011
2,842
1,439
Scotland
MacFly123 said:
My BIGGEST complaint about the iPad 2 right now is the audio! I totally want a retina display in the iPad 3, but the iPad really needs surround sound audio! I know Apple is already working on it as they hired the guy that invented THX surround sound :cool:
Click to expand...

Please tell me you are referring to virtual surround sound through headphones. It's like the people that say they need stereo speakers on the ipad. Why? It is designed to be used in both portrait and landscape orientation. For stereo to work you would need four speakers, one on each edge and let the ipad switch between two sets of speakers depending on orientation. Much easier to have a single speaker and leave stereo to earphones or a connected speaker system.
 
J

jaison13

macrumors 6502
Jun 20, 2003
253
7
pittsburgh
KnightWRX said:
The question is, does the iPad really require 2048x1536 resolution ? That's 263 PPI. Do you really hold the iPad that close to your face that it requires such a high resolution ?

Remember, the farther away you hold a device from your eyes, the lower the PPI value can be without you being able to distinguish individual pixels.

The argument for "pixel doubling" (obviously, 4 pixels to represent 1) for developers is hog wash. Developers have been designing stuff to work on displays with no fixed resolutions for decades now. Why would it suddenly be a challenge on iOS ? Answer : it's not.
Click to expand...

yes! it absolutely needs the higher res screens!!! if you do any art on your iPad it's a must. when you zoom to work on details the pixelation is horrible!! the only thing that will fix that is a higher res screen. same the for photos and videos when editing.
 
KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
jaison13 said:
yes! it absolutely needs the higher res screens!!! if you do any art on your iPad it's a must. when you zoom to work on details the pixelation is horrible!! the only thing that will fix that is a higher res screen. same the for photos and videos when editing.
Click to expand...

If you can't distinguish individual pixels, higher resolution is worthless.

The zooming artifacts is just the nature of zooming, it has nothing to do with the screen resolution. Your artwork is say 320x240, well, if you zoom in, it's just going to show bigger squares when it takes up 640x480 pixels on the screen, it's not going to magically be sharper and upscaled. :rolleyes:

I guess artists don't quite understand the technical difference between zooming and upscaling.
 
AppleScruff1

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
I can just see it, the iPad 3 will launch and there will be a boatload of issues with screen quality, especially from the 3rd rate manufacturers. If Samsung and LG are having problems, I pity the rest.
 
A

accessoriesguy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2011
891
0
I should become a reporter, every month, ill claim a new apple product will be released, and then say it was pushed back for *blank* reason, I would be as accurate as the best :p
 
KnightWRX

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
S

Sander

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2008
520
67
KnightWRX said:
The argument for "pixel doubling" (obviously, 4 pixels to represent 1) for developers is hog wash. Developers have been designing stuff to work on displays with no fixed resolutions for decades now. Why would it suddenly be a challenge on iOS ? Answer : it's not.
Click to expand...

As a developer, let me chime in. The applications we have been designing "for ages" for variable-sized displays often were designed to be windowed anyway. This meant there could simply be more stuff on screen. When you get a higher-resolution screen, your scroll bars, tool bars, window titles, and buttons take up a smaller percentage of your screen, which means you can open another tool bar or even another window.

By nature, most apps for the iPhone/iPad have been designed to run full-screen and have been carefully hand-crafted for that resolution.

Many games on PCs were designed to run full-screen too, and they often simply set your video mode to whatever they liked (or perhaps offered a few fixed choices). For modern games which are entirely vector-based it is not a big problem to render for any resolution you like (the same goes for OpenGL games on an iPad) but many games and apps on iOS have hand-drawn, bitmap graphics. This is one reason why many apps look so slick.

So, executive summary: Yes, it most definitely would be a challenge.
 
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