Lion-Optimized VMware Fusion 4 Debuts with Over 90 New Features

applefan289 said:

I've never seen the reason for a VM running Windows on a Mac because the price is almost the same as just buying a low-end laptop with Windows 7.

For school, I needed windows and looked into Parallels and realized that for a few dollars more, I could just buy a separate Toshiba laptop. At least this allows for redundancy because if one computer breaks, I have another.

With a VM, if your Mac breaks, it breaks and that's it.

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There are programs for many in school to get Windows free...check around.

Your last comment is true but the advantage is convenience of course. It's about tradeoffs and isn't any different than a person who can only have one system where if it breaks, they have nothing. It's really a silly argument to make.

applefan289 said:

The laptop I bought was $299 (no tax or shipping charge). Parallels was almost $200. Why pay to put Windows on an existing computer when you can have redundancy by having Windows on a separate laptop?

Everyone's needs are different. My need was to be able to run one program that was Windows-only, and figured it'd be good to get a separate machine and have Windows on its own piece of hardware.

It didn't seem right for me to pay almost $200 to put something on an existing computer bought in 2009, when I could have a backup computer in case anything happened.

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Unless of course you need to regularly copy/paste between different operating systems, use them simultaneously, have limited space, are traveling (what a pain to travel with 2 laptops, 2 power cords, 4 batteries, etc.), or a million other reasons.

Man, I'm feeling old. All these short-sighted posts are making my eyes bleed.

applefan289 said:

The laptop I bought was $299 (no tax or shipping charge). Parallels was almost $200. Why pay to put Windows on an existing computer when you can have redundancy by having Windows on a separate laptop?

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Virtual Box is 0$. Parallels is 90$.

Carrying only 1 computer with all the tools on it, and be able to interact with your data with software on any OS at the same time : Priceless.

Sorry you can't see the advantages in virtualizations.

Winni said:

Having a VM on a computer IS having two computers. I don't see how a VM with a second desktop operating system running in it actually makes life easier or less complex.

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Let's see :

- Share data with cables or external media or a network - Check
- Copy/paste without having to use a network based clipboard server that might or might not work properly - Check
- Carrying only 1 physical computer around with all my software - Check again.

Yep, a VM is just like a 2nd computer, except for those little annoyances of actual owning 2 physical computers.

Winni said:

I still firmly believe that when you need a VM with a second desktop OS in it, then you are basically walking with a crutch and your preferred host operating system was not the right choice for you.

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My VM is for work. My computer insists on using proprietary technologies that only have Windows client. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't even need the VM. No, my work laptop is not an option (a huge hulking Dell Lattitude... I'm not carrying that POS around).

Is it possible to run OSX 10.6 snow leopard on it?

I have some legacy app, CANVAS X, that I cannot run on Lion. If Fusion can run Snow Leopard, it would solve my problem. Web page said it runs Snow Leopard server, but not a normal snow leopard....

Make me think to buy it and try it. I am sick of Parallels and theirs constant upgrades without much of justification for it. An upgrade cost as much as new Vmware.

thedbp said:

Unless of course you need to regularly copy/paste between different operating systems, use them simultaneously, have limited space, are traveling (what a pain to travel with 2 laptops, 2 power cords, 4 batteries, etc.), or a million other reasons.

Man, I'm feeling old. All these short-sighted posts are making my eyes bleed.

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I said everyone's needs are different. My needs are different than your needs. For my needs, it was smarter for me to get a second PC...

yoshiuk said:

I have some legacy app, CANVAS X, that I cannot run on Lion. If Fusion can run Snow Leopard, it would solve my problem. Web page said it runs Snow Leopard server, but not a normal snow leopard....

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Snow Leopard's license agreement doesn't allow it like Lion's does.

applefan289 said:

I said everyone's needs are different. My needs are different than your needs. For my needs, it was smarter for me to get a second PC...

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So it seems that you do understand why people would need VMs after all. Your first post made it seem like you did not understand at all. Now it's clear that you just don't need it yourself.

But then, why visit this thread ?

movielad said:

Back when I was working in the visual effects business where most artists were using Linux desktops but needed Windows for Photoshop (since Adobe wouldn't port it to Linux despite the likes of Disney Animation and pretty much of the Soho VFX facilities lobbying Adobe to do so), virtualisation tools like VMWare saved a fortune on KVMs and multiple machines. Just the artist a beefed up machine and they can work on multiple OSes with ease.

Martyn

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Apparently, all those artists were using the wrong software platform. When you need Windows to run a mission critical application, then Linux is NOT the right choice for you. Whatever ran on those Linux boxes probably would also have run on Windows or could have been written for Windows in the first place. Except for trying hard to not use what everyone else in the world uses was probably the only motivation for going with Linux in the first place, and that alone is not a good enough reason.

You're doing NOBODY a favor by adding unnecessary complexity to a system. Having to instal a VM to run a mission critical application only shows that you made a poor choice. In my book, VMs are only acceptable on developer machines or when you need to make sure that a client system meets certain security and quality standards.

KnightWRX said:

Having everything on 1 computer is the big advantage of running a VM with Windows. Having to manage 2 different computers is a pain.

Not to mention a Windows license + VirtualBox is cheaper than a Windows 7 laptop.

I have to use a Windows VM for work. I wouldn't want to use a separate laptop.

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I'm in that same boat. Or rather, was in that same boat. For the longest while my employer had been running an ancient version of Exchange (2003 I think?), necessitating the need for a Windows something (preferably VM) to be able to use its features. So I had a Win7 VM until recently when Exchange was upgraded and I could use native OSX apps.

I refused to have a separate box for Windows, plus there's something to be said about keeping Windows contained in its own little... window.... which could be closed if/when it started to misbehave. Snapshots are also a very powerful feature for when things go awry in the OS...

Winni said:

In my book, VMs are only acceptable on developer machines or when you need to make sure that a client system meets certain security and quality standards.

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Good thing we're not all you.

A lot of movie editing/artwork is done on alternative platforms. Breaking Microsoft's stranglehold on the industry would help bolster innovation some. They have turned the PC industry into a stagnant cesspool. You're preaching stagnation and immobility. "Hey it works on Windows only, use Windows!". Yeah, way to spur innovation and development.

Winni said:

The funny thing is that you usually do not see average Windows users with an OS X or Linux VM; they can do everything they want with Windows, only OS X and Linux users usually have to have a VM with a second OS around to get their stuff done. That tells me more about OS X and Linux then it tells me about Windows.

And no, developers and geeks do NOT count as average users.

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Are there any average users here at MR? Anyone?

It tells ME more about "average" users than it tells me anything about any OS or other software.

Did anyone already try this? If I upgrade to it (via trial) - can I downgrade back to 3?

There's a discount code that knocks $10 off or £6.57 if you're in the UK - it should work for other currencies too.

Use FUSION20

For UK users it brings it down to £26.28 but there's VAT to go on top
Final UK price is £30.22

movielad said:

And the upgrade path to version 4 from 3 is where, exactly?

A pain in the arse that it looks like previous owners of Fusion have to buy new (at least at the special price). And at least, unlike Parallels, there hasn't been regular expensive upgrades to buy. Fusion is still the cheaper of the two overall for those that have stuck with both products since their early beginnings.

Martyn

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I've already jumped in and bought it at the discounted price - however, on the licensing portal, it says:

"Upgrade Entitlements
Upgrades for the following products: View 5, Fusion 4, Workstation 8, Site Recovery Manager 5, and vFabric will be available on the licensing portal by the week of 9/19. If you have questions, please contact License support."

So looks like they are (hopefully) coming soon. Tbh, £25 (with a discount) was less than the 2 to 3 upgrade, so I was happy to pay it.

yoshiuk said:

I have some legacy app, CANVAS X, that I cannot run on Lion. If Fusion can run Snow Leopard, it would solve my problem. Web page said it runs Snow Leopard server, but not a normal snow leopard....

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If you can find Snow Leopard Server (I've seen it on eBay in the $200 range) it will run in either Fusion or Parallels Desktop.

Rocketman said:

Can I run 10.4.11 in a virtual machine as well?

With Rosetta or an equivalent?

Just askin', not expectin'.

Rocketman

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I believe only consumer and server Lion and server Snow Leopard are officially supported due to licensing restrictions by Apple.

I'm hoping that the 2.5x increase in graphics performance pans out since that was Fusion's main disadvantage compared to Parallels. And hopefully Fusion's traditional stability is maintained.

So, no upgrade for Fusion 3 users? Their FAQ says:

Customers who purchased VMware Fusion 3 before the OS X Lion availability will need to buy a full license of VMware Fusion 4 to obtain all its new features and enhancements.

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That doesn't seem right. I don't even have Lion (nor do I want it at this point). So, to upgrade from Fusion 3, I have to purchase a new license? I realize that it's got a promo price of $50, but are they saying that if I don't run out and get it right now, I will be stuck at $80 to "upgrade" Fusion 3 (after the promo is finished)? That's just not right . So much for loyal customers. (I emailed them to confirm this, so we'll see if they say anything different).

On the other hand, around the end of October last year, I did get an upgrade from Fusion 2 to 3 for like $10. So, it does balance out, but only if I buy the $50 "full license" now....

Can't wait for the matchup: Parallels 7 vs Fusion 4

I am a sucker... I got both. Just couldn't choose. Have done so since the beginning of Parallels and Fusion.

IMHO, Parallels has more "Mac-stuff integration" and Fusion the better allover guest OS support.
OTOH, that was the difference.... I bet now with these two releases both cover it all. Probably down to individual apps inside the VM which seems the better...

Like I said.... I find it so tough to choose

The real exciting virtualization news of the day was VMWare Workstation 8, which introduced a bunch of vSphere integration (very cool). But I suppose this will do

Absolutely No mention of it running on Snow Leopard

I love VMware and their stupid ass marketing dept. There is no mention anywhere of whether this will run on Snow Leopard (host). All they talk about is how it's built for Lion, blah blah blah...some of us are not interested in running Lion, not now, and maybe not ever. I have an entire infrastructure built up around Snow Leopard for a reason, and it ain't gonna change. So, does anyone know if this version 4 will work on Snow Leopard and if so, will the performance improvements still be seen in Snow Leopard, or only in Lion?

I love how 2 months after an operating system comes out, everybody assumes the world has already migrated to it. Maybe the tarts with laptops do, but not desktop and server folks who actually work in IT and run VM's because they have to...not because it's "cool"...unreal, they should call this the "Tart Release" and then the marketing campaign would make sense.

psxguru said:

There's a discount code that knocks $10 off or £6.57 if you're in the UK - it should work for other currencies too.

Use FUSION20

For UK users it brings it down to £26.28 but there's VAT to go on top
Final UK price is £30.22

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Thanks for this In case anyone is interested, this promo code works for the US as well. Drops the price from $49.99 to $39.99.

Downloading now.

Winni said:

Apparently, all those artists were using the wrong software platform. When you need Windows to run a mission critical application, then Linux is NOT the right choice for you. Whatever ran on those Linux boxes probably would also have run on Windows or could have been written for Windows in the first place. Except for trying hard to not use what everyone else in the world uses was probably the only motivation for going with Linux in the first place, and that alone is not a good enough reason.

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Sigh. That's perhaps the most crazy statement I've read today.

When you have several hundred workstations, over a thousand HPC render machines - Windows tends to become a bit pricey. For VFX, Linux *is* the industry standard platform. 95% of the standard 3D modelling and 2D/3D compositing systems run on Linux. You must remember that SGI's IRIX was the dominant OS of that industry for a long time until commodity hardware and Linux took hold and replaced it. SGIs soon became bricks and doorstops.

Photoshop was one of the rare exceptions. Disney and a few other facilities contributed funds to the Wine project to develop it sufficiently to allow Photoshop to run well enough under Linux using the Wine system. Ultimately as hardware got cheaper, VMs were a better solution. There was no other application - open source or commercial that could match Photoshop's feature set. There are one or two other products that required Windows. These were used by a very small number of artists out of the several hundred coming and going through the facility.

Winni said:

You're doing NOBODY a favor by adding unnecessary complexity to a system. Having to instal a VM to run a mission critical application only shows that you made a poor choice. In my book, VMs are only acceptable on developer machines or when you need to make sure that a client system meets certain security and quality standards.

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I work for a web hosting firm now. I'd say the majority of all production web sites and applications that we and our customers are running are running on virtual machines. I've been using VMs now in live production environments for years and I couldn't disagree more with your statements.

Martyn

applefan289 said:

I said everyone's needs are different. My needs are different than your needs. For my needs, it was smarter for me to get a second PC...

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Exactly. Were arguing preference, but some fanboys on here try to make everything an argument of Apple Superiority. Totally childish

Could I run Lion from Snow Leopard on a Core Duo??

markfc said:

Could I run Lion from Snow Leopard on a Core Duo??

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The system requirements list a 64-bit processor like the Core 2 Duo. Fusion 4 is probably compiled as a 64-bit only app so it won't even run on a Core Duo.

Lion itself is compiled to use SSSE3 which is an instruction set that was introduced with the Core 2 Duo. Dropping the Core Duo in Lion is not merely an artificial limitation.