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Old Sep 21, 2011, 03:50 PM   #76
GoodWatch
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Hasn't Adobe buried that bloated zombie yet? Who the hell cares about Flash these days?

Adobe's eternal promises for 1000x "better" performance over whatever last version of its crappy software means nothing to any reasonable consumer, and even less to Mac users in general.

Once more, bury that rotten corpse and let us move on, please...

Flash IS DEAD.
Is that your opinion or just because Steve said so? Tough talk = more Apple brownie points I guess. You give us real Apple fans a bad name.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 03:59 PM   #77
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Is that your opinion or just because Steve said so?
What Steve says usually comes to pass. Maybe, just maybe, it might be smart to start listening to what he says, since he seems to know exactly what he's talking about most of the time. The industry at large seems to have no problem following what he says. Why do you?

Just ask RIM, HP, Palm, even *that other* Steve.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:04 PM   #78
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I mean I guess that's nifty, but controls on touch screens are terrible already. Gaming on tablets/mobile devices is very limited and dumbed down as it is, so why bother with all this? Just to attempt to keep Flash around longer?
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:05 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by djrod View Post
Most of web developers ( at least freelancers) are Mac users and I can tell you that 99% of us are excited for HTML5 and CSS3 and does not care about flash anymore.

The future of web design is websites that adapt it's design to the device you are using, one web, multiple devices with no need of using pinch to zoom or whatever, and this is something you do with CSS3, no flash
Html5 is a nightmare.

My company develops complex web banners and sites. for companies like ATT and Fedex to name a few. I can't tell you how many times a Firefox update has killed a site. Or how many times we built things for Facebook only to have Firefox like it but not Chrome. Or having to make mp4 videos for Safari and Firefox while having to make an .ogv version for Chrome. Or having CSS work in one browser but not fully in another.

Flash has its faults for sure but its far from dead. Media companies ask for 95% of their content in flash because they know the user experience will be the same across all browsers.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:10 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleaknik View Post
Every time my PC and/or Mac crashes... it's Flash (that or the NVidia drivers...). Do I hear my laptop's fan spinning up? I'm running a web page with Flash. Seriously, I will pass right over your content if it's written in Flash.

Thanks!
That's all due OSXs' locked internals that only Apple has a key to. That is the real and sole reason.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:13 PM   #81
ericmooreart
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Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
What Steve says usually comes to pass. Maybe, just maybe, it might be smart to start listening to what he says, since he seems to know exactly what he's talking about most of the time. The industry at large seems to have no problem following what he says. Why do you?

Just ask RIM, HP, Palm, even *that other* Steve.

Just like FCPX
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accessoriesguy View Post
I guess this is important for people who enjoy playing flash games.

I would have much preferred much more efficient flash, that used up less RAM, and much less processing power. That's the real main reason why Apple devices don't support flash.
Complex HTML5 uses as much CPU as Flash. Playing video in HTML5 uses as much of CPU as playing SD video in Flash.

Flash has problem with garbage collection that stores in RAM. They have to rewrite that.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:17 PM   #83
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Now Flash and CS can lag EVEN HARDER!
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:33 PM   #84
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I fully expect the hardware acceleration fine print to say "Windows Only".
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:38 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmooreart View Post

My company develops complex web banners and sites.
Now there's an oxymoron. I've never seen a web banner I couldn't have built myself in half a day. Not to mention, I'd be ashamed as a developer if my job were to clutter the internet with annoying ads, banners, and flash pages.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:38 PM   #86
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After reading this article by Daring Fireball...

http://daringfireball.net/2010/11/fl..._google_chrome

...I went for the no Flash approach and life has been great ever since.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 04:54 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by jpthebean View Post
Now there's an oxymoron. I've never seen a web banner I couldn't have built myself in half a day. Not to mention, I'd be ashamed as a developer if my job were to clutter the internet with annoying ads, banners, and flash pages.
What does the company you work for do?
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:06 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
Silverlight works well under OS X too. I recall watching the Olympics and several of Microsoft's keynotes with minimal bandwidth, DVR functions, and no fan spin up on my Macbook with only 768 kb/s!
Netflix uses Silverlight. Last I checked (few days ago) on my Core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM - Silverlight/Netflix used 130% CPU. For the same movie on my i7 ThinkPad, IE/Silverlight uses 12-20% CPU.

Why yes - here is the proof! Mac is using GT330 GPU, Windows is using Intel HD 3000 GPU for extra sadness
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:07 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post
With Microsoft now on board with the try to use html 5 and not plug ins its just a matter of time when flash is not needed at all.
I am not familiar with video software, but according to c-net, a version of MS Metro would not be running flash either. First, I did not know they were introducing different versions. Second, if what c-net says is true, then as you say, with MS and Apple pushing Flash away, it seems just a matter of time before Flash is no more, try as they might to maintain relevancy.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:07 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parapup View Post
Netflix uses Silverlight. Last I checked (few days ago) on my Core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM - Silverlight/Netflix used 130% CPU. For the same movie on my i7 ThinkPad uses 12-20% CPU.

Why yes - here is the proof!
At what resolution?
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:17 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMay View Post
Let me get this straight; you are complaining about this, but "I will be quick to dump your toy platform and use something that works well."

What is stopping you from dumping OSX now?
Dumped Lion already. Did not buy new Air because of Lion - got a ThinkPad X220. Still have a MBP used for development workstation running SL - will have to inevitably dump that too when it is time - I've invested money in it and it sort of works for development purposes. When it's time for changing the dev workstation I bet I will build my own and put Linux on it.

Thanks for asking though

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
At what resolution?
I had also tried it earlier on the same machine - Win7 and OS X, with same 1680x1050 monitor with similar results.

For the screenshot - Both were running the same movie in HD (that's what Netflix told me) - one on ThinkPad (1366x768) and other on MBP (1680x1050).

If screen resolution was something you were thinking of attributing the extra CPU usage to - little Googling tells me on the Air with lower-res screen Netflix takes similar amounts of CPU - > 100%.

Last edited by parapup; Sep 21, 2011 at 05:22 PM.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:23 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by parapup View Post
I had also tried it earlier on the same machine - Win7 and OS X, with same 1680x1050 monitor with similar results.

For the screenshot - Both were running the same movie in HD (that's what Netflix told me) - one on ThinkPad (1366x768) and other on MBP (1680x1050).
That makes a big difference. My experience was on 360/480p video over Silverlight. HTTP is so much cheaper to stream over.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:27 PM   #93
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Lost Cause

How about before adding 3D they got it to work first. Lost cause.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:30 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
Silverlight works well under OS X too. I recall watching the Olympics and several of Microsoft's keynotes with minimal bandwidth, DVR functions, and no fan spin up on my Macbook with only 768 kb/s!
Silverlight is by far the best online streaming solution I have used. Netflix uses it, and they dish out massive amounts of video. That alone tells us how awesome it is.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:33 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by GoodWatch View Post
You give us real Apple fans a bad name.
Oh, great...so what are "real" Apple fans like you supposed to think?

That Flash is great and all is fine with Adobe's Mac support for the last 20 years? Gimme a break.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:53 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Benjamins View Post
speaking of Machnarium.... it only runs on iPad2....
the power of Flash. turn a simple 2D game into a resource hog.
There's also a strange little note from the developer on the app's entry in the app store:

Quote:
If the game does not work properly after install, please try to reset your iPad2. Follow this advice: http://bit.ly/btsL2G [which expands to http://www.maclife.com/article/howto...phone_and_ipad ]
The beauty of the App Store is that these things will all sort themselves out. If you don't like apps where the developer tells you how to reset your app, you don't have to buy it.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 05:59 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Oh, great...so what are "real" Apple fans like you supposed to think?

That Flash is great and all is fine with Adobe's Mac support for the last 20 years? Gimme a break.
So Mac fans HAVE to hate Flash?

Unlike most of you, I don't have anything against Flash. In fact, I haven't encountered a browser crash that is caused by Flash. Maybe because Safari, Chrome and Firefox isolates the plug-in process.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 06:19 PM   #98
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So Mac fans HAVE to hate Flash?

Unlike most of you, I don't have anything against Flash. In fact, I haven't encountered a browser crash that is caused by Flash. Maybe because Safari, Chrome and Firefox isolates the plug-in process.
I didn't say that all Mac fans have to hate Flash, but to state the opposite is simply even more absurd...unless you have no idea about Adobe's utter disregard for the Mac platform in the last 20 years.

As for sandboxing the process, this doesn't make Flash in itself any better - it just shows how crappy Adobe's implementation has been since forever.
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 06:35 PM   #99
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What's Flash?
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Old Sep 21, 2011, 06:56 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parapup View Post
Netflix uses Silverlight. Last I checked (few days ago) on my Core i7 MBP with 8GB RAM - Silverlight/Netflix used 130% CPU. For the same movie on my i7 ThinkPad, IE/Silverlight uses 12-20% CPU.

Why yes - here is the proof! Mac is using GT330 GPU, Windows is using Intel HD 3000 GPU for extra sadness
130% huh?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterQVenkman View Post
Silverlight is by far the best online streaming solution I have used. Netflix uses it, and they dish out massive amounts of video. That alone tells us how awesome it is.
Butbutbut... its made by MSFT. How can it not be fail?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by IconicM View Post
I am not familiar with video software, but according to c-net, a version of MS Metro would not be running flash either. First, I did not know they were introducing different versions. Second, if what c-net says is true, then as you say, with MS and Apple pushing Flash away, it seems just a matter of time before Flash is no more, try as they might to maintain relevancy.
The metro version of iexp will not support plug-ins. The desktop version will*. Of course they could just offer flash support natively, but i'd guess they reserve that baby for their own things (e.g. silverlight) instead.

* flash is a plug-in.

addendum: after googling, people seem to think that metro ie will not support silverlight either. I am not, however, sure they are correct in their analysis. Yes, we know there will be no plug-ins, but native support is not a plug-in, so the point in itself is quite moot given that MSFT has control over the entire platform. Since the platform will have to support silverlight anyway, why leave it out of the browser? It cant be that resource intensive, can it? If it is, they would run into **** anyway basing other parts of their platform on it.

Further, one of the reasons for ditching plug-in support accordingly to news reports is the transition to WinRT. Wel, once more... silverlight support IS there regardless. Thus, there is no (extra) need to rewrite anything - or am i missing something here?

addendum 2: minor correction. silverlight as such may be dead. XAML is not however. porting is as easy as changing a few lines of code. same goes for porting your W8 Metro app to Wp7.

point still remains. why would not msft support a non-plugin plugin in their browser if the tech. is there already? ok, they may want to avoid DOJ for a little while now that they are in the clear, but still.

Last edited by divinox; Sep 21, 2011 at 07:25 PM.
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