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Old Oct 14, 2011, 11:43 AM   #51
JonB3Z
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
There were two separate issues

a) "death grip" - holding tightly
b) just bridging the lower left band
But there was also a question of degree. It's clear that different users experience the problem to different degrees. It's not so clear why that's the case.

More to the point, though, those who think some people made too much of a stink about it might consider that that stink-making is undoubtedly at least partly responsible for the effort to achieve the reported improvements -- if more definitive testing in fact bears the report out.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 11:49 AM   #52
rotax
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I am sure this will improve the signal to the phone, but my main issue is dropped calls on AT&T, which happens when you have 5 bars and you are looking right at the cell tower. This is an AT&T issue and I am curious if there are any differences on the 4S... expecting none
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 11:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by JonB3Z View Post
But there was also a question of degree. It's clear that different users experience the problem to different degrees. It's not so clear why that's the case.
Some explanations: Let's say we have a signal strength between 0 and 100, and the phone works properly if the strength is 50 or better. If you are in an area with signal strength 51, then the slightest signal loss will stop it from working. If you are in an area with signal string 95, then nothing can stop it. So if your home has signal strength 51, you will be complaining like mad, but if your home has signal strength 90, you won't see what the problem is.

One thing Apple did was changing the display for signal strength. Let's say it used to be 100 = 5 bars, 90 = 4 bars, ..., 50 = 0 bars (stops working). If your strength went from 5 bars to 4 bars, you complained. Now they show 60 = 5 bars, 58 = 4 bars, ..., 52 = 1 bar, 50 = 0 bars. If your strength went from 95 to 85, it still shows 5 bars. No complaints anymore.

And then it is very likely that the signal loss depended on how you held it. If a hand blocks the signal, then I would expect that people with big hands suffer more than people with small hands. And I think that most people want their phone to work, so if holding it one way stops it from working, they would hold it another way; instinctively without even noticing. Other people who want to find faults would do the exact opposite.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 11:59 AM   #54
Peterg2
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What I would like to see are figures for attenuation when "holding naturally", using Anandtech's term.

To see what I am talking about, look here and scroll down just over half way:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4163/v...one-4-review/2

Even the Verizon phone had relatively high attenuation compared to the others.

Obviously the best way is to wait for Anandtech's review but someone could do this at home or the office using the *3001#12345#* to get dbs, comparing leaving the phone on a desk and seeing the level and then holding it for roughly 30 seconds and noting the change.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:01 PM   #55
Xenomorph
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Originally Posted by Four oF NINE View Post
Makes me glad I skipped the 4 and waited for the 4S
I felt that, too.

iPhone 4S: the iPhone 4, perfected.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:02 PM   #56
iSee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
I know there are some people who seem to think the antenna issue wasn't real, but I can say from first hand experience it was real. So let's please not get into the debate about whether it was a manufactured controversy or not.

There were two separate issues

a) "death grip" - holding tightly
b) just bridging the lower left band

a) is common in all cell phones
b) is iPhone 4 specific

arn
It's not a question of how read the issue is (was!) -- it's a question of how serious it is.

For my part, I don't see any real distinction between a) and b) -- they both amount to the same thing: when someone holds their phone in a certain way it might loose signal strength. Maybe b) makes that easier on the iPhone 4, but how much easier?

IDK, my wife's had iPhone 4 from the start and never experienced problems in real life. She's not shy about telling me about any problems she might be encountering with any technology. So it's hard for me to take this seriously as a real problem. Maybe she was the lucky one in a million, but I have a feeling its more like she's one of the lucky 999,999 in a million.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:02 PM   #57
normwood
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IMHO this was never a "real" issue because the iPhone 4 & 4s should be cased. The phone is just to nice and to fragile to not have some type of case for protection.

I see people every day, all day with iPhones without a case and it just makes me cringe.

Wrap that rascal...keep him safe!

Again...just my opinion.

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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:05 PM   #58
Peterg2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normwood View Post
IMHO this was never a "real" issue because the iPhone 4 & 4s should be cased. The phone is just to nice and to fragile to not have some type of case for protection.



Stev
I appreciate that it is just your opinion but after trying various cases I prefer to go caseless and have done it for months without dropping the phone or putting it on hard abrasive surfaces which could scratch the back. My phone is perfect cosmetically and I like to admire the way it looks. So something like signal attenuation when held naturally would be important to me.

Last edited by Peterg2; Oct 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:07 PM   #59
alent1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arn View Post
I know there are some people who seem to think the antenna issue wasn't real, but I can say from first hand experience it was real. So let's please not get into the debate about whether it was a manufactured controversy or not.

There were two separate issues

a) "death grip" - holding tightly
b) just bridging the lower left band

a) is common in all cell phones
b) is iPhone 4 specific

arn
i replicated the issue on my blackberry at the time and when i dumped my 3GS for a HTC phone it had a wifi death grip. as in it could barely receive a signal from one room over
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:07 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post
Oh, you mean the problem that was never really a problem anyway? That's some R&D well-spent.

I realize Apple had no choice but to "fix" the problem due to the bad PR, but the fact that they had to in the first place is ridiculous.
This.

There was never really a problem that was measurably manifest in everyday use of the product.

Hence, the massive sales and extremely low return-rate (lower than a lot competitors' devices in the same category.)

Besides, the issue is now moot. Apple deftly side-stepped whatever was spun out of it and now we're at the 4S.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:14 PM   #61
PeterQVenkman
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You can't fix what was never broken, right? Right?

Yeah, we all knew it. Better design on the 4s. Live and learn, I guess.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:15 PM   #62
Lennholm
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Originally Posted by kiljoy616 View Post
the problem was real just not a big deal. you had to hold it like you wanted to break the phone, which for a 700 phone people sure tend to treat them like cheap plastic nokia phones you get for free.:roll eyes:

I have had no case on any of the iPhone and had non of the problems or the amount of glass cracks I see people have. what are these people doing that they can't even take care of a phone in their pocket.

That said I find that walking around with a phone stuck you your ear makes people look like dorks and 80's rejects. people bluetooth is for real use it.
Seems like you're only talking about the grip issue that is common to all phones, but the iP4 also had a death touch which only required a touch in the right spot to bridge two antennas and cause signal drop. And many people touch this spot when holding the phone normally, no "holding it like you want to break it" required.
That was a real issue, lots of people have it and it is a big deal to them, and it should be a big deal for a company that prides themselves at perfection.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:15 PM   #63
jamesryanbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloatingBones View Post
The "death grip" issue ain't over until Consumer Reports says it's over!
It is for people actually using the phone and having no issues (i.e. everyone I know from day 1).
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:20 PM   #64
George Knighton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
There was never really a problem that was measurably manifest in everyday use of the product.
I disagree. The way that I would normally physically hold the iPhone 4, I was dropping calls from Day One.

The reason that it's still so popular is that it is such an excellent overall design.

The antenna attenuation issue, although very real, is not a deal breaker because it is easy to fix and because the iPhone 4 was simply such a very good device that we all decided to suck it up and find a way to deal with it!

:-)
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:27 PM   #65
nebo1ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiljoy616 View Post
the problem was real just not a big deal. you had to hold it like you wanted to break the phone, which for a 700 phone people sure tend to treat them like cheap plastic nokia phones you get for free.:roll eyes:

I have had no case on any of the iPhone and had non of the problems or the amount of glass cracks I see people have. what are these people doing that they can't even take care of a phone in their pocket.

That said I find that walking around with a phone stuck you your ear makes people look like dorks and 80's rejects. people bluetooth is for real use it.
To each his own. I find people who have bluetooth headsets permanently attached to their ear look rather odd. I was in a restaurant recently and there was a table nearby where four of the six people had bluetooth headsets on.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:30 PM   #66
Obiemi
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Since when is left had the "wrong" hand?

Not sure if it was a slip, but to state that holding the phone in your left hand is some how "wrong" seems wrong itself!
Just a left handed guy trying to make his way in a right-handed world.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by NachoGrande View Post
I've dropped more calls with my iPhone 4 than with any other phone that i've owned. I'd say the problem was real.
Agreed. I work from home, and my i4 from launch day has over 50 days of call time now. I don't hold it during calls (always bluetooth or Bose corded headset), and I have several "Call Failed" drops a week, when my previous BlackBerry sitting in the same spot never dropped calls.

I'm hopeful that the 4S will greatly reduce if not eliminate the problem, but if not I still got a new phone
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:51 PM   #68
WestonHarvey1
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There's people who were smart on this issue, and everyone else.

The reality: There was an antenna issue. It made the antenna a bit worse than other antennas in a very specific use case, in areas of poor reception.

The antenna otherwise performed better than antennas in most other phones, sometimes allowing the phone to be able to make calls in those very same poor reception areas where the previous iPhone would have had trouble.

It's great that the new antenna is improved, but it wouldn't have been a detriment to the 4S if it hadn't been. It's just not a big deal.

Smart people understand this. You are smart if you agree with my post.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 12:53 PM   #69
jayducharme
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I'm going to miss all the "You're holding it wrong" comments....
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 01:45 PM   #70
rydeordie99
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Originally Posted by itcomesinwaves View Post
What are those icons next to the battery? A mail icon and a speaker? on both the iPhone 4 and the 4S? Are both phones jailbroken, or am I missing something here?
It's OpenNotifier, only available after jailbreaking (I cannot believe Apple doesn't have this feature available by default...)
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 01:50 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpnop View Post
That was expected, not fixing it after 16 months would be so dumb
Technically it was fixed on the CDMA iPhone in February. It already had dual antennas.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 02:01 PM   #72
VenusianSky
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Originally Posted by jayducharme View Post
I'm going to miss all the "You're holding it wrong" comments....
Here is one more for you....

We can now hold our iPhone 4S wrong.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 02:02 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rerelease View Post
Technically it was fixed on the CDMA iPhone in February. It already had dual antennas.
No it wasn't. On my Verizon iPhone 4, where I normally have 3 bars in my house, just laying my finger across the gap in the lower left of the phone causes the signal to go to 1 bar.

If i'm loading a webpage, it will be going fine. If I bridge that gap, data transfer immediately stops. Let my finger up, it immediately starts again.

A bumper or case fixes it all though.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 02:24 PM   #74
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I really think it is cheeky of Apple to continue selling the iPhone 4 when it has this antenna flaw, especially when they have a new phone that rectifies the issue.

Haters will say there's no such thing as 'antennagate' and say the iPhone 4S just has the world's best phone antenna system.

I think that the iPhone 4S's antenna system should have been what the iPhone 4 had all along, and all this chaos would have been avoided. Maybe Apple should have released the iPhone 4 in October last year, and used the extra few months to sort the antenna out.
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Old Oct 14, 2011, 02:37 PM   #75
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I have an iPhone 4 (white 16GB from July) and I have never had this problem- even when trying to force it to happen by intentionally "death gripping". I won't say that no one has had the problem, but no one is going to tell me that every iPhone 4 is affected because I have mine in my hand right now and it does not happen - even with the "death grip".
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