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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:37 PM   #51
MarkMS
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Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
I believe that rumor was debunked.
Yes, I remember it was debunked a while back. But here's a thought; maybe Ives is getting paid really well and really doesn't care about having more. He's probably happy with the couple of millions he has. I mean I remember reading/hearing somewhere that he has been given pretty much everything he has ever asked for at Apple.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:37 PM   #52
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why do the employees not get anything ever? why? why? i do not understand, the executives might be good at planning and making apple grow, but it is the employees that make all the actual work, and we dont even get a small raise the best part contractors do not even get apple discounts. dont take me wrong i love working for apple, it is just sad to see that they dont reward us for our hard work. i guess it is right as other people mention, work harder and one day you can be an executive :P one can wish

1%>>>>>>>99% is why.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:39 PM   #53
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Probably. He wanted to get back to UK.
I guess Dieter Rams didn't have any more designs he could copy.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:43 PM   #54
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Uh.... you sound like one of those stupid "Occupy _____" protesters. Basically mad that rich people are rich and you are not. This is America. Anyone can work hard... either by getting highly educated, starting successful business or inventing a unique product that the world cannot live without.

The people in the top seats at Apple were not handed their jobs for the hell of it. They are there because they are the best at what they do. The proof is in Apple's success. Sure they earn their yearly salaries for their work. But they can quit at any time and take their talent elsewhere... something that Apple does not want. So these stock options are given to encourage them to stick with the company.
god. not you people again.

first, i think Apple makes great products. Steve's vision has changed the world, and I hope Apple can continue to create great products. BUT - this is an example of exactly what the OWS protests are about. And I support them completely, even though I'm probably in the 3%.

These types of payouts are obscene, whether it's our beloved Apple or the evil Goldman Sachs. I agree that the execs work hard and help Apple be successful. The point is, they don't contribute 20,000 times as much as the factory workers putting together iPhones. Or 1,000 times as much as a mechanical engineer or software engineer. This is the out-of-control theft of the people's labor for the benefit of the elite that we have been trying to bring to light.

It's disgusting. And it has nothing to do with all the disinformation and propaganda seeking to discredit OWS (e.g. that the protesters don't want to work, want handouts, are uneducated, or are "mad" at the rich.) We are mostly mad at their enablers like you who defend the very people who are raping the world of its natural and human resources to satisy their own avarice. (Granted, there are degrees of guilt - oil companies do more to destroy the environment, clothing companies exploit cheap labor more, etc. But any time a company is benefiting from the labor of thousands of employees and redistributing the spoils of their work as hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to executives, there is a perversion of society)
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:44 PM   #55
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Ironically, I would be sad and disappointed if this thread DIDN'T turn into a "flame war." That would demonstrate an horrific double-standard for those who post here and sympathize with the OWS activists.

As for me, I love Apple products and I am glad that the company post-Steve is trying to keep their key leaders in place. That bodes well for the future, although I am also very concerned about the glaring Ives omission.

Can't Apple set him up with a kick-ass product development studio in the UK? Staffed with scores of designers, material engineers, and machinists, turning his every whim into workable prototypes? Sure, the time differential is a drag, but jeez--we are in the globe-shrinking video conferencing era now, aren't we?

We can't lose this brilliant Limey because he hankers for fish 'n' chips in the Queen's realm and doesn't want his kids to grow up sounding like bubble-headed teenage morons from American reality TV. Maybe Apple should be building that big glass donut in the pastoral north of England--in North Yorkshire? Or are we post-Ives s well?
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
I'm an AAPL shareholder, where's my bonus for staying with them when their financials were a "miss"? Oh wait, that's right... the miss was because of some boneheaded analysts.
Your financial capital investment in Apple is a pittance compared to their intellectual capital investment in the company. You can sell your shares first thing Monday and no one will care, it will not affect Apple one iota. OTOH if Apple's core exec team was piecemeal "stolen" away by other companies the value of your shares would be worth substantially less than they are today. If you are going to play the stock market then be a grown up.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MarkMS View Post
Yes, I remember it was debunked a while back. But here's a thought; maybe Ives is getting paid really well and really doesn't care about having more. He's probably happy with the couple of millions he has. I mean I remember reading/hearing somewhere that he has been given pretty much everything he has ever asked for at Apple.
Define debunked. He didn't go public and say so himself. It was all speculation, rumors, hearsay, someone saying this and that, etc. Either way, the rumor did show up, and could have some merit. Of course such rumor would have the best interest to be "debunked".
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:50 PM   #58
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This place is interesting sometimes.

It seems like every time Apple has a $7B profit quarter with your money and adds it to the amassing pile of cash reserves, everyone practically creams themselves with joy.

Yet, when Apple takes that money and gives it to the top 8 or 9 people at the company, everyone gripes about it.

Make up your minds, MR.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:52 PM   #59
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I think it's a ridiculous sum of money to be paid out to people who are essentially just doing their jobs.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:54 PM   #60
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At first I thought it said they all received 1 million each.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 09:59 PM   #61
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They are the 1%

They are the 1%
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:02 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by arn View Post
I believe the point is they wouldn't have felt like they would have had to if Jobs was still around. These are rentention bonuses. People have to stay to get them.

arn

Arn,

Does this mean then that the great designer Jony Ivey is leaving? I hope to God this is not true.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:07 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by iRobby View Post
Arn,

Does this mean then that the great designer Jony Ivey is leaving? I hope to God this is not true.
Is the notion that Ive could have simply declined this award for not wanting more really such a strange concept to people?
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:10 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by scoobydoo99 View Post

These types of payouts are obscene, whether it's our beloved Apple or the evil Goldman Sachs. I agree that the execs work hard and help Apple be successful. The point is, they don't contribute 20,000 times as much as the factory workers putting together iPhones. Or 1,000 times as much as a mechanical engineer or software engineer. This is the out-of-control theft of the people's labor for the benefit of the elite that we have been trying to bring to light.
It's called Capitalism. You get paid your market value. And yes, on the bottom line they DO contribute 20,000 times as much. Take Apple pre Steve Jobs and now. The company has gone from break even, barely, to 27B profit a year because of HIS decisions. So, paying Jobs even 1B over that time span would have been a good investment, and well below his market value. And it is not really about how much these executives get paid, because that's capitalism, and it's a publicly traded company, so shareholders have a say in it, it is really about what that individual does with the money he's paid, and THAT is what you can argue is the great injustice.

We can all say capitalism is unjust, but even the poorest people in the US would not be as rich as they are without it. When we want to go sit high on our moral horse, we should not look at capitalism. It is the collective greed of the entire western world and ones' conviction of his believe over another's that drives injustice on this planet. If we have THAT conversation, THEN I'll say, yes, I'm a hypocrite, I don't give 95% of my income to feed starving kids in somalia so I can be equal with the average world citizen. And that's why I'm not going to go sit on my moral horse and instead I'll say that capitalism is the most efficient way to bring wealth to the economy and it's up to individuals to decide what they will do with it to make the world a more just place.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:11 PM   #65
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Dayum... nice work dudes.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:11 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRobby View Post
Arn,

Does this mean then that the great designer Jony Ivey is leaving? I hope to God this is not true.
"There were only two people from Apple’s senior leadership team for whom Apple did not disclose stock grants on Friday. One is Jonathan Ive, the company’s senior vice president for industrial design, whose position at the company does not trigger S.E.C. rules requiring public disclosure of stock awards."

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1...r=yahoofinance
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:12 PM   #67
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No offense necessarily, but when I read this I pictured you listening to Rush with head phones on while reading Ayn Rand and polishing your shiny bootstraps. Probably waaaayyy off... or am I?
Don't listen to Rush. I do have conservative views. I do live in a red state (AZ). I am however Mexican-American, yet I 100% support AZ SB1070. I am fairly young but am not a cowboy... so no bootstraps.

And even though I directly benefit from our country's broken tax system, I can admit that it is wrong and needs to be fixed.

I am not "rich." I make $36,000 /yr. I am single . Father of 2.

So... even though there is only $2500 or so deducted from my salary every year for federal income tax, I get a $6000 refund. Why? Because this country rewards people for being poor and having kids.

And rich people are footing the bill. What good is it to become successful if 40% of your wealth is taken away by the government and spread around to people who are not a successful as you.

I support a flat tax rate across the board.

Now back on topic.

These Apple guys keep bringing me products that cause me to give Apple my debit card number time and time again. Apple should do everything in their power to keep them in the company.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:20 PM   #68
Trauma1
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Originally Posted by BurchBoy View Post
"There were only two people from Apple’s senior leadership team for whom Apple did not disclose stock grants on Friday. One is Jonathan Ive, the company’s senior vice president for industrial design, whose position at the company does not trigger S.E.C. rules requiring public disclosure of stock awards."
Source:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1...op-executives/
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:22 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by scoobydoo99 View Post
god. not you people again.

first, i think Apple makes great products. Steve's vision has changed the world, and I hope Apple can continue to create great products. BUT - this is an example of exactly what the OWS protests are about. And I support them completely, even though I'm probably in the 3%.

These types of payouts are obscene, whether it's our beloved Apple or the evil Goldman Sachs. I agree that the execs work hard and help Apple be successful. The point is, they don't contribute 20,000 times as much as the factory workers putting together iPhones. Or 1,000 times as much as a mechanical engineer or software engineer. This is the out-of-control theft of the people's labor for the benefit of the elite that we have been trying to bring to light.

It's disgusting. And it has nothing to do with all the disinformation and propaganda seeking to discredit OWS (e.g. that the protesters don't want to work, want handouts, are uneducated, or are "mad" at the rich.) We are mostly mad at their enablers like you who defend the very people who are raping the world of its natural and human resources to satisy their own avarice. (Granted, there are degrees of guilt - oil companies do more to destroy the environment, clothing companies exploit cheap labor more, etc. But any time a company is benefiting from the labor of thousands of employees and redistributing the spoils of their work as hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to executives, there is a perversion of society)
At least the "wealth" they are "redistributing" is what Apple earned by selling its products. Customers freely chose to buy them at the price Apple offered them for. Each product has "Made In China" clearly labeled on it. Customers know that going in. Stockholders buy stock knowing that the Board of Directors will award such bonuses if they feel the need to. Engineers and software designers agree to work for the price they negotiate for with Apple. Every single one of these decisions is entered into with 100% voluntary participation by all parties involved. The price of economic liberty and freedom is a wide latitude as to how people are compensated. Simple supply and demand determines the relative value of executive pay. Apple would certainly pay less if it could--they're not idiots. But for now, the cost of retaining their current team intact is steep, but they're willing to pay it.

That in no way whatsoever resembles the confiscation of wealth that taxation presents to the oft-villified 1%-ers under penalty of fine and/or imprisonment. When people use the term "redistribution of wealth", that generally connotes an INVOLUNTARY redistribution. Who is doing the redistributing as you've used the term? And what is being "redistributed"? Textile and oil company laborers are not slaves. We're not building the pyramids here. They choose their vocations. Stockholders vote for Board of Directors, who, in turn, pay executives what they deem a proper compensation. If stockholders were upset about that, they could remove those directors and replace them with more frugal ones. They don't, because in the grand scheme of things executive compensation is small potatoes compared to the rest of their operations.

But if you don't like it, buy up some shares of Exxon/Mobil and attend their next shareholder's meeting. Get your friends to do the same. Go as a group to address the proceedings and lodge your complaint about excessive compensation. Maybe you'll start a movement to remove the current leadership and cut back the salaries. Who knows? But if you aren't a shareholder, it is really none of your business what Exxon/Mobil, Apple, or anyone else does with their profits. At every stage participation in this "inequality" is entirely voluntary by all parties involved, from the consumer to the executive with the golden parachute.

You certainly have the right to express your righteous indignation at the "inequality" of it all (which sure looks like good ol' fashioned ENVY to me), but how productive is that, really? Hoping to "raise awareness"? Everyone knows execs are handsomely compensated. Mission accomplished. Maybe organize a boycott of their products/services instead? If I felt as you do, I'd probably want to take some proactive steps.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:22 PM   #70
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Is the notion that Ive could have simply declined this award for not wanting more really such a strange concept to people?
bwuahahaha

(imagine me doing that while in a smoke filled room with lots of fat cats in top hats)
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:24 PM   #71
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Oh Please....

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Originally Posted by scoobydoo99 View Post
god. not you people again.

first, i think Apple makes great products. Steve's vision has changed the world, and I hope Apple can continue to create great products. BUT - this is an example of exactly what the OWS protests are about. And I support them completely, even though I'm probably in the 3%.

These types of payouts are obscene, whether it's our beloved Apple or the evil Goldman Sachs. I agree that the execs work hard and help Apple be successful. The point is, they don't contribute 20,000 times as much as the factory workers putting together iPhones. Or 1,000 times as much as a mechanical engineer or software engineer. This is the out-of-control theft of the people's labor for the benefit of the elite that we have been trying to bring to light.

It's disgusting. And it has nothing to do with all the disinformation and propaganda seeking to discredit OWS (e.g. that the protesters don't want to work, want handouts, are uneducated, or are "mad" at the rich.) We are mostly mad at their enablers like you who defend the very people who are raping the world of its natural and human resources to satisy their own avarice. (Granted, there are degrees of guilt - oil companies do more to destroy the environment, clothing companies exploit cheap labor more, etc. But any time a company is benefiting from the labor of thousands of employees and redistributing the spoils of their work as hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to executives, there is a perversion of society)

First we don't need to discredit OWS... they are doing a fine job all by themselves...and I won't even get into their connections with Acorn and Unions.

Second, I can never understand why people always have to hate on people who make good. The liberal lie is always "that anyone who makes or has a certain amount of money( and it always seems to change,...is it a million is it 500k, is it 200k,) must have gotten it on the backs of others, probably stepped on their necks on the way, or some other ill-gotten way."

Me, on the other hand, I don't begrudge anyone what they make, actually I applaud them. Whether it be Execs, ball players or movie stars......do you hear the OWSers complaining that a movie star makes 20,000 times the sound editor?
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:24 PM   #72
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How many options for the $0.80 / hour chinese labor putting this stuff together?
None. There are probably many thousands of other people there who can do just as good a job at assembly for the current pay, and 7 workers quitting wouldn't effect AAPL stock price in the least.

On the other hand, if a bus full of Apple's current senior execs went off a cliff, the company's stock valuation would tank by far more than the cost of their options. (Thus they probably aren't even allowed to all travel together.)
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:24 PM   #73
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It's great to see a progressive company like apple with female executives being rewarded like this. Way to go!
Hey, I have no complaints. They have a gay CEO, and good for them. The man's a genius, and as soon as a qualified woman puts in the ~20 years worth of dogged work on successful product planning that someone like Scott Forstall has, I'm sure she'll get a big bonus too.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:26 PM   #74
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And that's why I'm not going to go sit on my moral horse and instead I'll say that capitalism is the most efficient way to bring wealth to the economy and it's up to individuals to decide what they will do with it to make the world a more just place.
We all know what happens if it is up to individuals... It will be a race of greed to no end. The Wall Street collapse was a sound proof of that. And now it's on again.
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Old Nov 4, 2011, 10:27 PM   #75
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Well I guess they are blessed. The Eagles Don henley said it well in a song that says why does fortune smile on some and lets the rest go free.
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