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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:19 AM   #26
AppleFan1984
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As much as I love Apple, I think the off-contract prices are too high. Begin the down-voting.
You're up six votes this morning so it seems at least some agree with you.

I don't understand why someone would pay $900 for a device they're likely to replace in a year or two. I don't even pay that much for a bicycle, which never becomes obsolete at all.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:19 AM   #27
SnapperUK
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Sim for UK traveller to US with factory unlocked 4S

Hi,
Just thought I would ask here as this thread is probably populated by people who know....
What network provides good (the best) mini-sim contract-free data loaded deal for a UK visitor to Los Angeles? I will only be around 5 days so don't want to make huge investment. Are there sims I can pick-up at the drugstore or Radio Shack (I know there is one just down the street from my hotel)?
Similarly suggestions for 3G iPad.
Thanks
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sutty5 View Post
US Pricing of iPhone 4S 64GB Handset only is $849! Yet that is 530! it costs 500 to buy the 16GB Version here in the UK! I paid 700 for the 64GB iPhone 4S here. That is equivalent to $1,120.

Why so cheap over there? It's basically the same phone. Yet in the UK we pay 170/$270 more for exactly the same phone?
that's be because your government is greedy charge ya bunch of tax and vat! same as any other stuff such as cars, gas, tvs, ect.........
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:20 AM   #29
KPOM
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Originally Posted by MacDarcy View Post
Question. Can you now use the unlocked 4S as an AT&T prepaid "gophone" here in the states?
Technically AT&T won't allow data on the iPhone with the GoPhone plan and will prompt you to upgrade to a proper iPhone plan if you try it.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:20 AM   #30
yg17
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Originally Posted by SnapperUK View Post
Hi,
Just thought I would ask here as this thread is probably populated by people who know....
What network provides good (the best) mini-sim contract-free data loaded deal for a UK visitor to Los Angeles? I will only be around 5 days so don't want to make huge investment. Are there sims I can pick-up at the drugstore or Radio Shack (I know there is one just down the street from my hotel)?
Similarly suggestions for 3G iPad.
Thanks
AT&T is really your only choice. Perhaps T-Mobile if you don't mind being stuck on EDGE.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:22 AM   #31
KPOM
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Originally Posted by SnapperUK View Post
Hi,
Just thought I would ask here as this thread is probably populated by people who know....
What network provides good (the best) mini-sim contract-free data loaded deal for a UK visitor to Los Angeles? I will only be around 5 days so don't want to make huge investment. Are there sims I can pick-up at the drugstore or Radio Shack (I know there is one just down the street from my hotel)?
Similarly suggestions for 3G iPad.
Thanks
If you just want EDGE T-Mobile can sell you a non-contract plan. If there is a Best Buy store around, there's an MVNO called H20 Wireless that operates on AT&T's network and will sell you a 30-day plan with "unlimited" (i.e. 3GB) data for $60. You might need a SIM cutter, though, since a lot of the stores just have regular size SIMs.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:24 AM   #32
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I still don't get the advantage of unlocked phones here in the US unless you are a frequent traveller outside the country. You are gonna be paying same monthly recurring fees subsidized or not.
No, you don't have to.

There are tens of thousands of iPhones right now with AT&T GoPhone SIMs.

If your telephone usage is minimal, it's a very viable option, but you have to calculate your own usage habits and do the math.

I think I can live with 250MB of 3G data per month. With AT&T's cheapest postpaid iPhone data plan, you get 250MB of data at $15 per month. With GoPhone, you can buy a 500GB data package for $25 which will last thirty days. However, if you buy a new data package before the expiration date, the unused data will rollover for thirty days. Hence, you can purchase a 10MB data package for $5. Total two month cost: $30 for 510MB of data, which is actually cheaper than the postpaid plan.

Calls are ten cents a minute. I average about 30 minutes of talk time on my current dumb phone (on a T-Mobile Pay As You Go SIM). I use Google Voice for my light texting on an iPod touch.

Thus, my monthly telecom expenses would average to $18. Despite the higher initial handset cost ($849 for a 64GB model), my monthly expenses are lower and the break even point is at eleven months, after which I am saving money compared to the AT&T subscriber who pays $399 for the same subsidized (and locked) handset (and ~$30 activation fee) plus another $55 per month for the cheapest call/data combo (450 min/250GB).

Over a two year period, I will have saved something like $450 and I am using ever single penny I paid for.

I will have an unlocked phone that can be easily used abroad, plus I have something that has a higher resell value on the used market.

Many if not most iPhone users with GoPhone SIMs have done similar analyses on their own usage patterns and have reached similar conclusions.

Last edited by cvaldes; Nov 11, 2011 at 10:30 AM.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:26 AM   #33
B777Forevar
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Ships 1-2 weeks?
If I'm going to spend $750 on a phone, at least let me have it in 2 days.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:26 AM   #34
mingoglia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutty5 View Post
US Pricing of iPhone 4S 64GB Handset only is $849! Yet that is 530! it costs 500 to buy the 16GB Version here in the UK! I paid 700 for the 64GB iPhone 4S here. That is equivalent to $1,120.

Why so cheap over there? It's basically the same phone. Yet in the UK we pay 170/$270 more for exactly the same phone?
How's that "free" healthcare and other social services working out for you? I have family in the UK and when I travel over there I've notice most products are the same price in pounds as they are in dollars... so the exchange rate more or less reflects the price difference. My uncle still gets frustrated when he comes over here and sees his same model (more or less) Jaguar, a British car, considerably cheaper in the US.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:27 AM   #35
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I still don't get the advantage of unlocked phones here in the US unless you are a frequent traveller outside the country. You are gonna be paying same monthly recurring fees subsidized or not. And people keep on saying they don't want contract to justify the more expensive unlocked iPhone, seriously, you don't change carrier every 6 months or every year. Why would you do that? Unlocked phones will only work with AT&T anyways so might as well get subsidized by them and save yourself some money.
tmobile customers like my dad/brother/myself that like the iphone, but don't use/need a data plan and hate att. We use wifi most of the time. I've been using iphones with tmobile since 2007 first iphone 2g, 3g, 3gs, 4, and now 4s! It doesn't bother much now having 3g since I'm on wifi and plus I travel a lot.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:28 AM   #36
firestarter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutty5 View Post
US Pricing of iPhone 4S 64GB Handset only is $849! Yet that is 530! it costs 500 to buy the 16GB Version here in the UK! I paid 700 for the 64GB iPhone 4S here. That is equivalent to $1,120.

Why so cheap over there? It's basically the same phone. Yet in the UK we pay 170/$270 more for exactly the same phone?
Couple of things to think about:

1/ We have better consumer protection laws which will allow you under certain circumstances to get repairs well beyond the manufacturers warrantee period (and the manufacturer therefore has to factor the cost of this into the phone).

2/ Americans get completely screwed on call plans and costs. We don't get charged when people call or text us (yay!), and in the US there's no way you'd get a deal like GiffGaff:
10 / $16 per month for 250min talk, unlimited text, unlimited data
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:28 AM   #37
MacDarcy
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Technically AT&T won't allow data on the iPhone with the GoPhone plan and will prompt you to upgrade to a proper iPhone plan if you try it.
Actually thats ok. I have an ipad with unlimited data that i use for surfing the web. Plus the iphone still has wifi and there are free wifi spots all over nyc where i live.

If i could just use the iphone for voice and sms that would be cool. I know it sounds crazy to pay such a high premium for a phone without data....but i also want the iphone 4s for the camera. That way i wont have to buy a canon t3i dslr which would have cost me an extra $899. So it all evens out. :-)
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:34 AM   #38
notjustjay
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Originally Posted by snebes View Post
I'm not going to argue about the margins, but flash cost isn't geometric like you think it is.
Also, I imagine a LOT fewer people want to buy the 64 GB phone versus the 16 GB, so you're also looking at smaller quantities of the bigger chips, which also increases the price (less volume pricing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedOrc View Post
I still don't get the advantage of unlocked phones here in the US unless you are a frequent traveller outside the country. You are gonna be paying same monthly recurring fees subsidized or not. And people keep on saying they don't want contract to justify the more expensive unlocked iPhone, seriously, you don't change carrier every 6 months or every year. Why would you do that? Unlocked phones will only work with AT&T anyways so might as well get subsidized by them and save yourself some money.
Yeah, I was "contract free and proud of it" with my carrier for the better part of ten years before I realized, hey wait a second, I'm throwing away free subsidy money, and if I signed a contract, I could get a better phone, a better plan, and for comparatively less than this outdated plan I've been sticking with since 1999. I did like the "freedom" of not having to worry about changing carriers but as my track history proves, that really didn't end up being worth anything. So I finally bought an iPhone after years of sitting on the fence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFan1984 View Post
I don't understand why someone would pay $900 for a device they're likely to replace in a year or two. I don't even pay that much for a bicycle, which never becomes obsolete at all.
Yet I know plenty of people who would easily pay $900 (and much more) for a good bike. I'm not one of them, but the group exists. How much do you think is fair for a cell phone then? Or one as technologically compex as the iPhone?
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:36 AM   #39
ThanksSteve
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The prices are high. That said the international prices are even higher. I doubt they'll ever go done either. Apple has too much to gain in terms of cross advertising with mobile companies (in addition to other benefits).
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:41 AM   #40
MaxBurn
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Originally Posted by cvaldes View Post

There are tens of thousands of iPhones right now with AT&T GoPhone SIMs.
If you really want to get the cost down just buy a AT&T locked phone second hand. It doesn't have to be an unlocked phone to use it with go phone.

I saved over a hundred dollars on mine, at a time where every apple store near me is sold out.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:44 AM   #41
Jupiter-One
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Originally Posted by sutty5 View Post
Why so cheap over there? It's basically the same phone. Yet in the UK we pay 170/$270 more for exactly the same phone?
One word: taxes
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:45 AM   #42
zin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutty5 View Post
US Pricing of iPhone 4S 64GB Handset only is $849! Yet that is 530! it costs 500 to buy the 16GB Version here in the UK! I paid 700 for the 64GB iPhone 4S here. That is equivalent to $1,120.

Why so cheap over there? It's basically the same phone. Yet in the UK we pay 170/$270 more for exactly the same phone?

$849 ~ 530.
530 + VAT = 636.
Actual 64GB cost in UK = 699.
The difference really isn't that much as you say.

The 16GB model mirrors this:
$649 ~ 407
407 + VAT = 488
Actual 16GB cost in UK = 499.

As much as I am critical of some past pricing discrepancies between the UK and USA, I am really pleased that the iPhone doesn't have such discrepancy.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:46 AM   #43
ABG
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Originally Posted by mingoglia View Post
How's that "free" healthcare and other social services working out for you? I have family in the UK and when I travel over there I've notice most products are the same price in pounds as they are in dollars... so the exchange rate more or less reflects the price difference. My uncle still gets frustrated when he comes over here and sees his same model (more or less) Jaguar, a British car, considerably cheaper in the US.
Low taxes huh?
How's that National Debt working out for you?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:47 AM   #44
Jibbajabba
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
WOW!

You guys get those for quite cheap prices, I'm jealous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zin View Post
$849 ~ 530.
530 + VAT = 636.
Actual 64GB cost in UK = 699.
The difference really isn't that much as you say.

The 16GB model mirrors this:
$649 ~ 407
407 + VAT = 488
Actual 16GB cost in UK = 499.

As much as I am critical of some past pricing discrepancies between the UK and USA, I am really pleased that the iPhone doesn't have such discrepancy.

Not quite - US guys have to pay an additional sales tax on that (which is what, 20%?)
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:47 AM   #45
cere
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Why and how are they preventing these from being used on CMDA carriers? Are they disabling the CDMA components? I'm in Canada and when I go to the US, I use prepaid cards for AT&T or TMob or the MVNOs. Is it just a matter of the CDMA carriers choosing not to activate them on their networks unless they are subsidized? Wouldn't Sprint and Verizon want the option to sell me (and all the other tourists) their prepaid services? I'd love to add Verizon and Sprint to my prepaid options, but I guess I'll have to stay with the GSM guys.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:51 AM   #46
Kyrra
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Originally Posted by ABG View Post
Low taxes huh?
How's that National Debt working out for you?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
I think you misunderstand how debt is created. If the US gov were in raise taxes, that doesn't mean that the debt would be lowered. It's all a matter of how big the budget is.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkafoo View Post
Pardon me for being a noob, but what's the advantage of going with a non-subsidized phone, aside from avoiding an ETF over the next two years?

Would this reduce the monthly cost of my plan? (US, specifically) It would be worth it if I could get a cheap plan for about $20/month instead of $90.
Also, if you want to upgrade to the iPhone 5 when it comes out, you won't be locked into a contract still. Having an non-subsidized phone will allow you to sell the iPhone 4s and buy a new one when it comes out.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:51 AM   #47
Moonflow
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Question, so if i buy one of these factory unlock and use ATT or Tmobile do i still be able to get 3G? Or it's 2G/Edge automatically?
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:52 AM   #48
eenuuk
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I can't comment for the US but I bought an off contract one here in the UK for 699.

People go mental when I tell them this and they can't believe I paid that for the phone. However, when you make a simple spreadsheet of iPhone 4S on contract for 24 months at my current deal with the initial purchase price it is over 100 more expensive in the 24 months than buying outright and having the sim only tariff that I have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcamfork View Post
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As much as I love Apple, I think the off-contract prices are too high. Begin the down-voting.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:54 AM   #49
Jupiter-One
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Originally Posted by ABG View Post
Low taxes huh?
How's that National Debt working out for you?
You better look up UK's numbers first, bro.

US debt = 62.3% of GDP
UK debt = 79.9% of GDP

So, what were you saying?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcamfork View Post
Compare Android phone off-contrast prices. Apple's are much higher. And who buys Nokia anymore anyways?
Nope. A high-end unlocked Android phone usually is in the same price-range as an unlocked iPhone.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:57 AM   #50
PLin
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Originally Posted by AppleFan1984 View Post
You're up six votes this morning so it seems at least some agree with you.

I don't understand why someone would pay $900 for a device they're likely to replace in a year or two. I don't even pay that much for a bicycle, which never becomes obsolete at all.
If you travel outside of the country 1-2 times per year, paying the extra $450 premium is a no-brainer. I purchased an unlocked iPhone 4 last year, and used it in 6 different countries:

1. In Canada, I spent $10, which included 125MB of data for a week, and unlimited evenings and weekend calls for 3 days. I live 30 miles from Canada and go there several times a year.

2. In Singapore, I spent about $20, which gave me unlimited incoming calls for 30 days and 50MB of data, which I used sparingly.

3. In Hong Kong, I spent about $12 and had unlimited data for about 3-4 days, including tethering.

4. In Macau, I spent about $12 and had unlimited data for about 4 days.

5. In Bali, Indonesia, I think I spent about $10, and I had plenty of data to use for the 3 days I was there.

6. In China, I think I paid $30 for 600MB and unlimited incoming calls that lasted me for almost a month.

With a locked iPhone, I would have had to subscribe to AT&T's international data roaming plan for $200 for 800MB (back then it was $200 for 100MB) and still pay $3 per minute for calls.
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