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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:23 PM   #51
TSE
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I don't understand this move.

AMD has absolutely destroyed nVidia in the graphics segment with everything but the high-end gaming graphics that requires a dedicated gaming laptop.

The 6xxx series trounces the nVidia 5xx series.

The 7xxx series is going to make even a bigger jump than the 5xxx to 6xxx jump was. 28nm core, completely new architecture.

Unless nVidia's new architecture is a vast improvement over what they currently have, I don't get this move.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TSE View Post
I don't understand this move.

AMD has absolutely destroyed nVidia in the graphics segment with everything but the high-end gaming graphics that requires a dedicated gaming laptop.

The 6xxx series trounces the nVidia 5xx series.

The 7xxx series is going to make even a bigger jump than the 5xxx to 6xxx jump was. 28nm core, completely new architecture.

Unless nVidia's new architecture is a vast improvement over what they currently have, I don't get this move.
Lowend and mainstream of the whole 7XXX series will be just renamed chips of the 6XXX series. And only the highend chips will have new architecture. Just wait and see...
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:31 PM   #53
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Well this is great! Not because I really care about nvidia or anything, to be honest, but because it will allow for greater flexibility in the graphics cards and integrated gpu's that could potentially be put into future MacBooks...
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:34 PM   #54
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Yay, more flickering MacBook Pros! Yeah, I have a Late 2008 15" MBP, which keeps flickering, no matter how many times Apple "fixed" it.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:41 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSE View Post
I don't understand this move.
Easy. Nvidia likely made Apple an offer they couldn't refuse i.e. cheaper component pricing.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Q View Post
For such a large company Apple can seem surprisingly light on its feet when it comes to changing suppliers.
This is why I've been so fascinated by them. They have managed to be nearly as agile as a startup, while also growing to the market size they are today. Their power over the supply chain is impressive, and even helps the competition in a way. If Apple threatens to leave, or does so, it's a solid message to the other company to improve. That improvement is then available for integration by other OEMs as well.

This is one positive side to the power Apple wields. And I believe a lot of it came from Job's management. He never bothered to study business, and just did it the way that felt right to him. He stumbled, learned, and improved, and was greatly assisted in his personal areas of weakness by those he hired, such as Tim Cook.

I did gain some insight on Job's perspective on business from the recent Lost Interview movie. Basically he never accepted "Because thats how it's done" as an answer when asking why. He would dig deeper, answer why, and change the process if the old why didn't make sense. One of his examples was the unit cost for a product. Most companies back then (back then being pre Macintosh in 1984) didn't have the capabilities to measure the exact cost down to the component level. On the books, there was simply a guess, adjusted quarterly based on real costs examined after some were made. When Jobs figured this out, he then ensured the first Macintosh factory had systems in place to track everything, and they knew minute by minute the cost of every Mac being made. Resistors went up in price by 10%? That cost would show up in the first Mac being assembled with the higher priced ones, while it was still on the line.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:44 PM   #57
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This report makes my MBP feel old, since it has an NVIDIA chip. Except, no, it came out a little over a year ago. Did I miss some (rather short lived) drama or something? This report seems completely nonsensical in light of the actual facts.

For what it's worth, I prefer AMD to NVIDIA. No AMD chip has ever died on me, and the ones I've had have always run so cool and quiet. My personal failure rate for NVIDIA chips is shockingly high. Like, >50%.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:45 PM   #58
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While I don't see this happening, I just really hope we see a removal of the optical drive in the 13in and a dedicated GPU put in it's place.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:48 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by xraydoc View Post
So I guess we're stuck with integrated graphics on the smaller models (11", 13") for the foreseeable future, eh?

Sure hope not but that is probably true. Perhaps an external Thunderbolt GPU will be offered to supplement the abysmal Intel GPU's.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:49 PM   #60
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I'm happy with my discrete Radeon GPU in my 2011 MBP. It works well. When it switches, I don't even notice it.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:50 PM   #61
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Let the screen flickering issues and kernel panics begin yet again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrxak View Post
This report makes my MBP feel old, since it has an NVIDIA chip. Except, no, it came out a little over a year ago. Did I miss some (rather short lived) drama or something? This report seems completely nonsensical in light of the actual facts.

For what it's worth, I prefer AMD to NVIDIA. No AMD chip has ever died on me, and the ones I've had have always run so cool and quiet. My personal failure rate for NVIDIA chips is shockingly high. Like, >50%.
I totally agree, nVidia has an ultra high failure rate and there's nothing but problems with it. They simply can't make a working chip, I don't see why anyone would want that in their computer?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:51 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMouse
Who cares.

I see no benefits or drawbacks from the move if NVIDIA can continue to provide a reliable product. I cringe every time I see a pre-unibody MBP with a GeForce 8600...a ticking time bomb.

As for PhysX....yeah, whatever...or more like whenever.

When Intel gets over themselves and allows ATI and NVIDIA to design chipset/GPU combos for the Core i-series again, I'll be happy.
I've had two MacBook pros with bad graphic cards. This is disappointing. Never had an issue with ATI/ AMD
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:53 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parapup View Post
With ATI chips I can run open source OS on the Macs - with Nvidia not so much - that's another reason for NVidia to die^W gracefully run out of business.
ATI has Linux drivers?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:55 PM   #64
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Darn, I liked Apple using ATI/AMD, I always have less problems with their graphics cards.
Same here; not to mention the notorious NVIDIA 8800GS of older iMacs. They should definitely stick to ATI.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 01:55 PM   #65
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The biggest problem with NVidia graphics has been the very sub-par graphics drivers. The bigger headache comes from with 2 GPU vendors comes 2 sets of vendor specific extensions that can be used which is kind of a nightmare (from what I understand).

This whole release about AMD being dropped from the Macbook Air kind of sheds some light on the situation.

For some reason the drivers for AMD GPUs have been pretty mature and have been generally faster than Nvidia's offering. AMD is hurting and an exclusive Apple product that uses its brand of chips would have been extremely beneficial from the market view standpoint. So they throw more resources at the Mac OS X drivers and improving the speed and work on trying to increase its relationship with Apple. However, with Apple's decision to not use AMD in the Macbook Air, and not likely any other product in the future, they pull out. Expect AMD graphics drivers to lag behind again, and hopefully Nvidia will throw some more resources into Mac drivers again now that they will be used again in the current Mac lineup. Thus we'll never really have good/fast/mature drivers for OS X.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:03 PM   #66
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WHY is MR citing Semiaccurate? Charlie is one of the worst sources of information in the tech world. The guy is utterly full of crap and should be ignored by default, such as his "three year" claim that ATI/AMD cards weren't seen in Macs despite this being laughably false.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:05 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markieg View Post
AMD are cheap sub quality in comparison to nvidia
Read this:

INQUIRER confirms Apple Macbook Pros have Nvidia bad bump material
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-bump-material

Apple Extends NVIDIA MacBook Pro Warranty to 3 Years
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/01/...ty-to-3-years/

MacBook Pro: Distorted video or no video issues
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

All Mid-2009 MacBook Pro computers with the 9600M GT are also affected. I have one.

NVIDIA? No, thanks!
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parapup View Post
NVidia can shut shop as far as I am concerned - crappy overheating pile of undocumented, unstable crap is what nVidia has been spewing since some time - 8600M, 9400M etc.
8600M GT had and still has its problems, no doubt about that.
But 9400M and 320M have been great IGPs in my book - decent performance and never a single hiccup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parapup View Post
With ATI chips I can run open source OS on the Macs - with Nvidia not so much - that's another reason for NVidia to die^W gracefully run out of business.
Your personal mileage with "open source OS" may vary... but Nvidia is clearly (and widely) regarded as having (had) better Linux drivers than AMD/ATI.

Last edited by AppliedMicro; Nov 21, 2011 at 02:15 PM.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:06 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Eidorian View Post
Apple knows that there are only two major discrete GPU vendors. I really do not understand the "never again" attitude only to need come crawling back.

Charlie gets hits regardless.
Do you know what 'crawling back' means? It implies that person/entity coming back is in a worse position now than when they left, and desperately are in need of your services/whatever. Considering Apple's insane growth and success the past few years with AMD chips, and that they're in a better position than they ever have been, I don't think they fit the definition of 'crawling back'.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:06 PM   #70
Xenomorph
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This is what I'm hoping to get in 2013:

15" MacBook Air
Anti-Glare
512 GB SSD
8 Gigs RAM
NVidia Graphics

I will be a happy bunny.

I know anti-glare is an option for MacBook Pro (it's my current screen). I really wish it was on more devices. I don't need "bright, vibrant colors" or whatever the glossy screen is supposed to provide. I just want to be able to use my computer in any room without having to close all the drapes first.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:07 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Retrofire View Post
Read this:

INQUIRER confirms Apple Macbook Pros have Nvidia bad bump material
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-bump-material

Apple Extends NVIDIA MacBook Pro Warranty to 3 Years
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/01/...ty-to-3-years/

MacBook Pro: Distorted video or no video issues
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

All Mid-2009 MacBook Pro computers with the 9600M GT are also affected. I have one.

NVIDIA? No, thanks!
>Charlie Demerjian

Oh boy here we go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy2k8 View Post
Do you know what 'crawling back' means? It implies that person/entity coming back is in a worse position now than when they left, and desperately are in need of your services/whatever. Considering Apple's insane growth and success the past few years with AMD chips, I don't think they fit the definition of 'crawling back', especially that they can pretty much write a cheque tomorrow and buy out Nvidia if they really wanted to.
That's the joke. Seriousness ended after the first sentence. Everything else is typical Charlie. Semiaccurate is fun for "insider info" but it does drag down into sensationalism.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:07 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by drakino View Post
This is why I've been so fascinated by them. They have managed to be nearly as agile as a startup, while also growing to the market size they are today. Their power over the supply chain is impressive, and even helps the competition in a way. If Apple threatens to leave, or does so, it's a solid message to the other company to improve. That improvement is then available for integration by other OEMs as well.

This is one positive side to the power Apple wields. And I believe a lot of it came from Job's management. He never bothered to study business, and just did it the way that felt right to him. He stumbled, learned, and improved, and was greatly assisted in his personal areas of weakness by those he hired, such as Tim Cook.

I did gain some insight on Job's perspective on business from the recent Lost Interview movie. Basically he never accepted "Because thats how it's done" as an answer when asking why. He would dig deeper, answer why, and change the process if the old why didn't make sense. One of his examples was the unit cost for a product. Most companies back then (back then being pre Macintosh in 1984) didn't have the capabilities to measure the exact cost down to the component level. On the books, there was simply a guess, adjusted quarterly based on real costs examined after some were made. When Jobs figured this out, he then ensured the first Macintosh factory had systems in place to track everything, and they knew minute by minute the cost of every Mac being made. Resistors went up in price by 10%? That cost would show up in the first Mac being assembled with the higher priced ones, while it was still on the line.

This is just pure ignorance. Apple is one of the most rigid computer manufacturers out there. Just look at Dell offerings. You'll find that right now they offer computers with Intel and AMD CPUs, integrated (Intel/AMD) and discrete GPUs from NVIDIA and AMD including dual card SLI and crossfire configurations. When you buy Apple computer, you buy it for the case not the internals. Apple being "agile" is a good joke though Agile companies do not keep their models unchanged for 2 years (as Apple does with Mac Pro).
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:13 PM   #73
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Would this mean, we may finally see desecrate graphics in the iMac opposed to mobile graphics?
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:14 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkidd View Post
Would this mean, we may finally see desecrate graphics in the iMac opposed to mobile graphics?
"Discrete mobile graphics" do currently exist.
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Old Nov 21, 2011, 02:26 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
did AMD do something to apple again? what's the point in switching?
Maybe Apple used AMD/ATI graphics exclusively so AMD would have money to spend on R&D for their "Bobcat" APUs which would provide the MacBook Air with powerful graphics, but that did not pan out.
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