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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:21 PM   #76
AppleDroid
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Originally Posted by smulji View Post
Explain to me why the iMac NEEDS a redesign. The current design is still beautiful.
Minus that glassy screen I would agree

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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I'll second the Mac Pro/NEC Multisync combo; berry, berry nice.
It's how I roll and I wouldn't have it any other way. (Well, Eizo are nice too. Hell anything matte + hardware calibrated)
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:22 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
Even the 3GS has outsold most newer Android models.

NPD: iPhone 3GS Outsold Every Android Smartphone in Q3
Nov. 15th ET, 2011

Apple’s iPhone 4 was the top selling phone in the world for its entire reign at the top of Apple’s iPhone product line, but according to market research firm NPD, even Apple’s iPhone 3GS outsold every Android smartphone on the market.

In a release, the company said that the top five phones of the third quarter, which ended in September, were:

Apple iPhone 4
Apple iPhone 3GS
HTC EVO 4G
Motorola Droid 3
Samsung Intensity II
I'm so glad we can pollute the one mac pro article on here with more iPhone talk. It's a refreshing change of pace from all the other iphone talk.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:28 PM   #78
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So does this mean we will see a Mac Pro at the same time as 10.7.3 or after?
I'd say doubtful... the new Intel Chips have been the hang up. I would say this means Apple probably has some early stock of the AMD and probably the Intel Chips in their labs for testing though as they prepare. Q1 is Jan-March.

(I don't and have not doubted a new Mac Pro was coming. Listening to analysts is silly. I think it has been more of an Intel delay issue, and the other rumor about Apple having consider AMD chips <that turned out to be stinkers> might have been another factor. The Pro Line sells, but not like hot cakes. People can get more longevity out of these machines, and with their prices, you don't upgrade every gen.)

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Originally Posted by TennisandMusic View Post
Microsoft profits obscenely...what exactly are you talking about? Apple makes their money via targeting a very small portion of the market and charging a gross premium on what they offer. They sell a tiny share of the total phones in the market and have most of the profits. Can you not put 2 and 2 together and realize they are making massive margins on a relatively small number of people?

There are tons of successful companies in the tech industry. You talk as if Apple is the only one doing well, while the rest of the industry is a wasteland. That is far from the reality however.
I don't think that was the intent of the op's post to say Apple is the only one making money. I think what he was saying is they are the only ones making a good profit margin and money, and they kind of are.

You always hear about "We had X billion in sales!" Microsoft has had higher sales than Apple many a quarters... but Microsoft also made less profit, or in many cases even posted losses. Don't confuse a company's sales to their profits.

To be honest, the tech sector has turned into a bit of waste land. Every product category these days is being squeezed and generating lower margins. Look at HP's blundering with their PC unit. The why? It was low margin... but it was also high volume and though it was a chump change profit per machine, it WAS ALL THEIR PROFIT.

When Apple is garnering a 30-48% profit margin on hardware everyone else get lucky to see 7-12% on, yes, that is wildly successful. It is a company living in a thriving Oasis of cash while everyone else is in a desert with a bunch of mirages. Microsoft's only money makers are Windows and Office and the Xbox. If Microsoft were smart, they'd kill off almost every other unit they run. They don't make them money, they drain the value of the company... and instead they keep buying more dead end start ups and investing in areas they can't compete like Search and web portals. This is the polar opposite of Apple who for as large as they are, is very small. They don't spread themselves into senseless areas. Where HP is trying to cut of their arm to buy fat.... Microsoft waters themselves down by not cutting the junk and focusing on what they're doing well at.

I could throw out 100 other tech companies that are struggling in the same ways, but the stories are all the same. Why did the Flip Cam get a death when it dominated the market? Because a software company owned it, saw it was a penny profit, and said we'd be better in the long run leaner and focusing on our core. Sometimes I wonder how Dell stays alive. The bulk of their sales aren't the systems that make them money, they're the "we're practically giving these away and hope people are swayed to upgrade" systems. Sony? Wow, they've lost money steadily for awhile as well. Samsung lives a healthy life because they aren't reliant on their products, they also supply components to all their competitors for a win/win. Didn't buy our tablet? No biggie, the innards in theirs still made us money...
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:29 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
Even the 3GS has outsold most newer Android models.

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...rtphone_in_q3/

NPD: iPhone 3GS Outsold Every Android Smartphone in Q3
Nov. 15th ET, 2011

Apple’s iPhone 4 was the top selling phone in the world for its entire reign at the top of Apple’s iPhone product line, but according to market research firm NPD, even Apple’s iPhone 3GS outsold every Android smartphone on the market.

In a release, the company said that the top five phones of the third quarter, which ended in September, were:

Apple iPhone 4
Apple iPhone 3GS
HTC EVO 4G
Motorola Droid 3
Samsung Intensity II
So, using this argument you are willing to admit the Amazon Kindle Fire is outselling the iPad?

And I agree with PeterQ here, but there are reasons we can't have nice things...

Last edited by TennisandMusic; Dec 4, 2011 at 11:45 PM.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by d-m-a-x View Post
ran into this - seems promising, anyone read German?
http://www.macgadget.de/News/2011/11...o-Grafikkarten
No, But google chrome's built in translator does... =P It is basically the same article though.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:37 PM   #81
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Mac Pro on the MR front page. Whatever next!
Apple Cinema 4K Displays!! LOL!
Okay I'll settle for 30" re-release even with gloss
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:45 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by MacAddict1978 View Post

I don't think that was the intent of the op's post to say Apple is the only one making money. I think what he was saying is they are the only ones making a good profit margin and money, and they kind of are.

You always hear about "We had X billion in sales!" Microsoft has had higher sales than Apple many a quarters... but Microsoft also made less profit, or in many cases even posted losses. Don't confuse a company's sales to their profits.
*snip*
Uhhh....have you looked at MS' profits? I'm not a huge fan of theirs, but I do deal in reality. And when has MS had a loss in a quarter? Can you find that info for me please? I suggest you actually look up what you're talking about before claiming ridiculous things. It appears based on your description you have no idea of the history of Apple's and Microsoft's revenue/profit performance. Also, the difference between "sales" and profits is understood by just about everyone.

Speaking generally here, the problem with these forums is that they are typically inhabited by people who are fans of tech, but actually know nothing about it. It is not too dissimilar from any other kind of forum where lay people are fans of something, know a little bit about said topic, and then thinking they are experts simply have objectively wrong opinions based on nothing more than fanaticism. Of course, everyone can be subject to that sort of foolishness, but it's frustrating to see it on full display here time and time again.

What strikes me as funny (depressing?) is how everyone seemingly knows better than every CEO or engineer at Apple/Google/MS (pick your poison), but it becomes obvious that none of the people talking actually know anything about business or engineering. It's just all opinions based on bias and supposition. I know this is endemic to all forums though.

Ah well, on topic, I think a new Mac Pro would be wonderful, especially if they were able to reduce the footprint of the design and maybe modernize the case a bit. The addition of current graphics would also be a nice gesture since Apple seems to always skimp in this area. No one is sure how long this machine will be around, but there is certainly still a strong need for it at this point, so here is hoping Apple does the right thing.
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Old Dec 4, 2011, 11:52 PM   #83
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I think its about time that Apple change their design. Big box systems are getting long in the tooth. Surely Apple can design something just as powerful, expandable, and with a smaller footprint.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:01 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by bretm View Post
Yes. As the article speculates, they'll basically be a souped up mini. Probably taller. Think the cube. No space for anything but an upgradeable graphics card and maybe an extra drive.
If they do that then they are going to lose a lot of the remaining pro market. I know a lot of people who are not going to throw away there fibre cards and redesign their corporate network around what a new Pro might be lacking.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:50 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Elijahg View Post
That's a great idea that's been flung around quite a bit, but unfortunately Thunderbolt isn't fast enough. A graphics card requires a 16 lane PCI Express slot, which is 8 GB/s. Thunderbolt is just 1.25GB/s per channel, nowhere near fast enough for a graphics card, unfortunately. Otherwise, a GPU in an external box would be awesome.
You could be right. I’ll be interested to learn more about which GPUs can and can’t be used via Thunderbolt (and whether Thunderbolt’s 2 channels can be combined). To be useful, and external GPU needs to exceed the Air’s internal GPU. By as much as possible and no more, please

There ARE external Thunderbolt GPUs announced, though (and ExpressCard GPUs, including some supporting certain Mac models, have existed for some time).

For example, Village Instruments has a Thunderbolt external GPU chassis in the works: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4569/v...or-thunderbolt

And Sonnet has announced this Thunderbolt PCIe 2.0 chassis (not GPU-specific, but they mention “multiple screen video” so they’re not excluding GPUs either):
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/

They mention 16-lane PCI Express:

"High Bandwidth—x16 (x4 mode) 1GB/s PCIe 2.0 slot perfect for special-purpose PCIe cards for video capture, Fibre Channel, 10-Gigabit Ethernet, digital audio, RAID control, multiple screen video, etc."

So maybe the question is: are there useful desktop GPUs that don’t saturate 16 lanes? (I agree, I don’t see how the full speed of 16 lanes could work over TB.)

(Also, theoretically, TB’s speed will increase 10x in the years ahead. Not that I want to wait!)
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:52 AM   #86
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It will probably work out like this: more and more little leaks will foreshadow the next Mac Pro like the big star of Bethlehem the arrival of Jesus Christ. And then the Mac Pro will arrive, and all the worry about Apple going gadgety will die down. We'll see a Final Cut Pro X revision with multi-cam and all the necessary functions... and the Mac story will continue...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mBox View Post
Apple Cinema 4K Displays!! LOL!
Okay I'll settle for 30" re-release even with gloss
No-no-no! Bad idea to have glossy lipstick on girls and glossy panels on monitors.

A matte display with a great panel that deserves the name "Cinema Display". The current models are rather "Daytime Television Displays".
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:55 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Mac DDS View Post
Well of course the new MPs will be here shortly. I just purchased my mid-2010 MP. Typically, Apple releases the newer version a month after my purchase.

The same thing happened after two of my iMac purchases.
WHY ON EARTH would you buy a Mac Pro right now??? It is HIGHLY outdated and a total rip off for the money!

This is coming from a video producer who has a Mac Pro and loves it! Just a horrible time to buy with the specs for the price. Now after the update and with Thunderbolt if it happens that is totally different. But you should have waited! Maybe you couldn't wait which is just unfortunate because it is an awful time to buy.

Sorry, no offense.

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Originally Posted by derbothaus View Post
This can't be. Mac Pro is DEAD!!!
Here's to hoping it will love on!

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Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
It will probably work out like this: more and more little leaks will foreshadow the next Mac Pro like the big star of Bethlehem the arrival of Jesus Christ. And then the Mac Pro will arrive, and all the worry about Apple going gadgety will die down. We'll see a Final Cut Pro X revision with multi-cam and all the necessary functions... and the Mac story will continue...
I hope you are right. I think a lot of the lack of purchasing with the Mac Pro for the last few years is NOT just because pros don't want it. It is more because none of the pro apps were 64 bit and the Mac Pro was a waste of resources because of it, AND the hardware is like 2 years out of date and therefore a rip off for the price right now! If Apple would just update it and Final Cut like you said I think tons of the Pros would FINALLY start to upgrade!
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Last edited by MacFly123; Dec 5, 2011 at 01:01 AM. Reason: add
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:57 AM   #88
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MP's don't sell. In-store they make up less than 0.5% revenue> Online they fare slightly better. Apple needs to reinvigorate that product line one way or another. 1000 macrumor users do not maketh a market, irrespective of how much we scream and shout.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:57 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
It will probably work out like this: more and more little leaks will foreshadow the next Mac Pro like the big star of Bethlehem the arrival of Jesus Christ. And then the Mac Pro will arrive, and all the worry about Apple going gadgety will die down. We'll see a Final Cut Pro X revision with multi-cam and all the necessary functions... and the Mac story will continue...
I dunno. There could be a re-design of the Mac Pro this time around. After all the last one has been around for almost a year and a half. I think Jonny's been a busy beaver in that lab of his.

Aiden might finally get his wish.

I also think the next iMac is gonna be a touch based computer.

Check out Jeff Han's new 27" wonder :

http://www.perceptivepixel.com/videos/#

Last edited by Peace; Dec 5, 2011 at 01:04 AM.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 12:58 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post
I think its about time that Apple change their design. Big box systems are getting long in the tooth. Surely Apple can design something just as powerful, expandable, and with a smaller footprint.
I honestly don't care how large the box is, as long as it's quiet and has enough space to have plenty of hard drives etc., and stays cool.

I think the current Mac Pro box is one of the best computer housings ever.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 01:13 AM   #91
TMay
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Originally Posted by TennisandMusic View Post
Uhhh....have you looked at MS' profits? I'm not a huge fan of theirs, but I do deal in reality. And when has MS had a loss in a quarter? Can you find that info for me please? I suggest you actually look up what you're talking about before claiming ridiculous things. It appears based on your description you have no idea of the history of Apple's and Microsoft's revenue/profit performance. Also, the difference between "sales" and profits is understood by just about everyone.

Speaking generally here, the problem with these forums is that they are typically inhabited by people who are fans of tech, but actually know nothing about it. It is not too dissimilar from any other kind of forum where lay people are fans of something, know a little bit about said topic, and then thinking they are experts simply have objectively wrong opinions based on nothing more than fanaticism. Of course, everyone can be subject to that sort of foolishness, but it's frustrating to see it on full display here time and time again.

What strikes me as funny (depressing?) is how everyone seemingly knows better than every CEO or engineer at Apple/Google/MS (pick your poison), but it becomes obvious that none of the people talking actually know anything about business or engineering. It's just all opinions based on bias and supposition. I know this is endemic to all forums though.

Ah well, on topic, I think a new Mac Pro would be wonderful, especially if they were able to reduce the footprint of the design and maybe modernize the case a bit. The addition of current graphics would also be a nice gesture since Apple seems to always skimp in this area. No one is sure how long this machine will be around, but there is certainly still a strong need for it at this point, so here is hoping Apple does the right thing.
The argument that I would make is that most of Apple's current revenue and profit is the result of market disruption with products that did not exist 5 years ago; i.e. iPhone and iPad, while mac sales have been growing substantially faster than the PC industry as a whole, and iPod still rules music device sales.

Many seem to think that Apple's margin's are an exclusive result of premium pricing. In reality, Apple has fine tuned production of its few products to have long and cost efficient production cycles over what now appears to be about three years. The result that we see is a mere three iphones generations in production, albeit each with variants for carriers, colors, memory, and iOS at any one time.

So, we come to the Mac Pro, and I agree fully with your assessment, albeit I would argue for a few BTO variants of FirePro cards available for MCAD and such.

As an aside, I don't knock MS, but the bulk of their revenue comes from Windows and Office, maybe together accounting for 80% of Revenue, and I'm guessing similar profits. Growth is that of a mature company and the most disruption MS has made since the arrival of the iPhone is probably the Kinect, which has done well, but isn't enough to create the kind of growth that MS needs to generate to keep Ballmer in his job (if you ask me).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
It will probably work out like this: more and more little leaks will foreshadow the next Mac Pro like the big star of Bethlehem the arrival of Jesus Christ. And then the Mac Pro will arrive, and all the worry about Apple going gadgety will die down. We'll see a Final Cut Pro X revision with multi-cam and all the necessary functions... and the Mac story will continue...




No-no-no! Bad idea to have glossy lipstick on girls and glossy panels on monitors.

A matte display with a great panel that deserves the name "Cinema Display". The current models are rather "Daytime Television Displays".
When the time came to move my business to a larger unit in the same building, I had an office built with no windows and the walls were painted a very light gray. I have overhead fluorescent lighting (5K) which isn't ideal, but I can say that I don't have the glare issues with a 27 inch display attached to a PC.

My business is machining, but I'm trained as an engineer so I'm using Solidworks, Autodesk Simulation CFD and GibbsCAM, and looking forward to finally abandoning PC's altogether for Mac Pro's and various other macs.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 01:17 AM   #92
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Not a major update. Mac Pros updates usually are minimal at best. I have a 2007 Mac Pro 8 Core 3 gigahertz and it seems to do just as good as the newer models. Only difference is the PCIe 2.0. Still runs Lion and Winders 7 just fine without hiccups.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 01:40 AM   #93
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As much as I don't like the Mac Pros for being terrible value for money computers. I really hope this rumour is true. Simply cause now a lot of people would choose an iMac over a Mac Pro. In a lot of tests the iMac is better.

I really want the Mac Pros to be better then the iMac in all tests. I want the people who buy a Mac Pro to get the best Mac out there. Well yes best is subjective cause every Mac from the MBA to the Mac Pro is best at something. Portability or screen or power or power saving or etc etc.

But I think you get my point. The Mac Pro is expensive and I want the people who want one to really get something good. I'm so not in the Mac Pro market. But if I was I'd either wait for this new Mac Pro or get a 27 iMac. The current Mac Pros though very good are just not a good investment. Not enough bang per buck spent.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 01:53 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by AppleDroid View Post
Minus that glassy screen I would agree
I would disagree. I own 2 iMacs. The last ever white iMac. 2006 C2D 2.0 Ghz my model is. I also own a 2011 21.5 i7.

My point is this.

White iMac - Nice screen. It's pretty good. No glare at all a good thing. But cleaning the screen is not the easiest thing. I'm always worried to damage the screen. And dust can sit at on the white plastic at the bottom on the screen. Not a good thing.

Alu iMac - The screen looks fantastic. One of the best screens I've even seen at this size. And cleaning it is a breeze. Just wipe the glass with a damp cloth the dry with a link free cloth making sure no dampness goes off the screen. Easy. Yes the glossy screen is a little glarey in full sunlight. But apart from that it's great.

In short don't put the iMac in full direct sunlight and it is an excellent screen. Yes there is always ways to improve things. But it's way better then the matte white iMac screen. I'd not have believed you in 2006. I got my white iMac cause I didn't like the (at the time) rumoured glossy screens. But now after using one I'd not go back. Glossy all the way.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:24 AM   #95
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Say good by to GPUs on a card.

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Originally Posted by Henriok View Post
So is the new Mac Pros going to have Thunderbolt ports on this graphics card _and_ on the motherboard? I can't think of a very good scenario where there's TB ports missing on either. How is this going to work really?
I suspect that plug in cards will be a thing of the past. This was going to happen sooner or later.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:24 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
I dunno. There could be a re-design of the Mac Pro this time around. After all the last one has been around for almost a year and a half. I think Jonny's been a busy beaver in that lab of his.
I hope you’re right, if only for the fact that a redesigned Mac Pro would mean Apple is still serious about the line and is willing to invest in more than a “mere” spec bump.
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:30 AM   #97
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Thank goodness. I really hope this is true to prove to the non-believers who say the MacPro is done with. Apple wouldn't sink that low..... or would they?
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:35 AM   #98
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Ok artist renditions. I hear it's going to be a big triangle! Go for it.

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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:49 AM   #99
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Now that card inside a new 16-Core Mac Pro might get me playing X-Plane 10 decently..
Latest high end iMac runs X-Plane (at native resolution in high) over 200 FPS...
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 02:52 AM   #100
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As much as I don't like the Mac Pros for being terrible value for money computers. I really hope this rumour is true. Simply cause now a lot of people would choose an iMac over a Mac Pro. In a lot of tests the iMac is better.

I really want the Mac Pros to be better then the iMac in all tests. I want the people who buy a Mac Pro to get the best Mac out there. Well yes best is subjective cause every Mac from the MBA to the Mac Pro is best at something. Portability or screen or power or power saving or etc etc.

But I think you get my point. The Mac Pro is expensive and I want the people who want one to really get something good. I'm so not in the Mac Pro market. But if I was I'd either wait for this new Mac Pro or get a 27 iMac. The current Mac Pros though very good are just not a good investment. Not enough bang per buck spent.

I'm one. But then i wonder why i would buy an imac when i can get an easier to upgrade (as if i wasn't gonna send the imac straight to owc anyway) Macbook Pro.

The imac is cheaper, < $2k and they throw in in a $1k screen w/two thunderbolt polts.

Crap graphics (well, i want cuda), expensive *but dropping fast* - laptop ram,
Raid two SSDs in there, and you not only have a beast workstation as it is, but it can always be used as just a monitor/disk drive.
I want a NEW Mac pro. 96 gigs of ram, quadro 6000 (for mac plz).

I guess i'll have to put my "purchase a small country" fund on hold.
...in the meantime any quad+ i7 computer will do.

Apparently this world is filled with people who set up their workstation in an uncontrollable glareful environment.

matte MATTE MAAATTTEE screen blah.

UP lighting folks.

What do you have the sun at your back while working?
Be a real adult and wake up when the sun has set.

Matte is latin for dull and lifeless - as your screen, as your work.
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