SMC Issue on MBP 13 - Hardware Troubleshooting Guide

cmdrdata · Nov 27, 2011

BenCesur said:
We have that message, then the insurance segment. I changed the fuse is defective as a solid. Now, unfortunately, the computer will not open in any way .
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/12743007/

Ne önerirsin?

Why do you replace the fuse? Previously you said that the fuse is OK (seeing voltage on both ends). You may have damaged something else as you replace this perfectly good fuse.

BenCesur · Nov 27, 2011

cmdrdata said:
Why do you replace the fuse? Previously you said that the fuse is OK (seeing voltage on both ends). You may have damaged something else as you replace this perfectly good fuse.

Here is what I can not find the part was damaged. We have 16.5 volts of electricity going to the battery pins. As described in the first message I'm trying to not turn on again.

cmdrdata · Nov 28, 2011

BenCesur said:
We have that message, then the insurance segment. I changed the fuse is defective as a solid. Now, unfortunately, the computer will not open in any way .
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/12743007/

Ne önerirsin?

Sorry. I was quoting the wrong battery pin out. Here are a picture of the connector schematic for A1286 and A1278. They are slightly different in the signaling pin outs. Pls note: A1287 annotation is wrong. It should say 1278.

Dadioh · Nov 28, 2011

BenCesur said:
Hi, everyone.

First of all, I'm sorry for bad english.

I have a Macbook Pro A1278 liquid damage in my hand. Oxidized zones cleared. Although it is plugged into the charger light is on, nor what the machine would start charging. I ran the machine in the above-mentioned method.

But high-speed fan works, such as @ Dadioh said, the sensors not work, and dvd-rw does not seem to have the battery. Other works for all devices.

I tried the battery charging light is not lit. So the machine does not see the battery and dvd-rw. Naturally, the battery will not turn on the machine. Just trying to charge the instrument.

I did some measurements on the machine. Everything seems the pictures below.

Now how can I solve this problem. What is problematic parts. Do you have people who can help me?

When you use the SMC bypass then the SMC will not read the sensors. In the SMC bypass mode I do it with the battery removed so I would not expect to see a battery installed after boot.

The fact that it boots with SMC bypass means that whatever the fault condition that the SMC is detecting is not enough to prevent it from trying to boot.

I suspect the charger circuit. See my picture. That is the charger device. You need to check pin 14 which is the signal that the charger sends back to the SMC to say it is OK. Should be 3.3V if it is OK.

Pin 1 is marked as a dot. Then count counter-clockwise to pin 14. It does not have an exposed via so you need to probe the pin directly on the QFN package. Be very very careful since you don't want to short the pin. Fine tip probes highly recommended.

BenCesur · Nov 28, 2011

Gentlemen at the moment does not open the device in any way. That is dead

The reason for thinking that they changed that part of insurance in that painting.

Now I put the old track, but still does not open instead.

@ Dadioh Well Do you have any idea about the dvd-rw not see?

....

..

BenCesur · Nov 28, 2011

Dadioh said:
I suspect the charger circuit. See my picture. That is the charger device. You need to check pin 14 which is the signal that the charger sends back to the SMC to say it is OK. Should be 3.3V if it is OK..

Currently, there are short-circuit device. This is why I get on every item 16.5 v current.
Should be 12 V or 3.3 V 16.5 V stream where there should be.

cmdrdata · Nov 29, 2011

BenCesur said:
Currently, there are short-circuit device. This is why I get on every item 16.5 v current.
Should be 12 V or 3.3 V 16.5 V stream where there should be.

I think replacing that white component by the LVDS connector has done more damage than the initial problem and resulting in 16.5v showing up where it should not be. He now has a "no-boot" situation. If he replace that with another capacitor, the damage maybe minimal, but if he replace it with a resistor, a fuse or a diode, I am certain a few more devices in that board would die/burn up. The problem is becoming more complex. I don't know where to begin troubleshooting again at this time.

Dadioh · Nov 29, 2011

cmdrdata said:
I think replacing that white component by the LVDS connector has done more damage than the initial problem and resulting in 16.5v showing up where it should not be. He now has a "no-boot" situation. If he replace that with another capacitor, the damage maybe minimal, but if he replace it with a resistor, a fuse or a diode, I am certain a few more devices in that board would die/burn up. The problem is becoming more complex. I don't know where to begin troubleshooting again at this time.

Hmmmm... Maybe I should edit the first post in the backlight thread and get rid of that diagram. When I first started that thread I had no idea what the device was (the purpose of the thread was initially to discover what it was). We now know it is a high frequency capacitor on the output of the backlight boost circuit. Unfortunately it is a plain white component that looks fuse like. Someone who does not read further in the thread may miss the fact that it is a cap.

Replacing it with anything that conducts DC current would be nasty.

Edit: Updated the backlight thread first post to make sure that people understand that this is NOT a fuse.

BenCesur · Dec 1, 2011

@cmdrdata , @Dadioh Thank you for your interest in Friends. Repairs were rejected. I returned the device.

Katotech · Dec 2, 2011

SMC on A1260

I'm working on a Macbook Pro A1260 that will not charge the battery, and will only startup using the SMC POST bypass method. This one has a checkered history - the original power adapter was ruined by a line surge (thunderstorm?). After that the battery died; it would not charge with the new adapter (I'm not certain if the owner ran the battery to death before the new adapter arrived). I opened the machine and went over the DC in board and found no overt faults. I ordered a new battery. but the system would not charge until I removed the battery, held down the power button, and plugged in the adapter before releasing the power button. I then inserted the battery without turning on the machine. It began charging, and all seemed to work well for a while.

Now the system is back in the shop with a dead battery, and it won't charge. The SMC bypass start always works, but if I disconnect the AC adapter momentarily, on the next power-up the system will shut off the backlight as soon as the boot starts, or the backlight will not turn on at all. I checked the PRAM battery; it is good at 3.08 Volts.

I managed to get the adapter to start up in charge mode (orange LED) by plugging it into a Macbook with a low battery, but when I plugged it into the MBP with its battery installed, the light turned green at the time the SDA bus normally has its initial conversation (about 1.5 seconds after adapter connection). If I power up the system, it always says no battery installed.

What are your thoughts? The battery is a third-party unit from China. Is this a case of infant mortality for the battery, did the owner somehow manage to kill it by waiting too long to charge it, or do I have a motherboard fault? I have both an oscilloscope and DMM (that's how I found the SDA signal on the battery connector). Do you have any suggestions for a definitive diagnosis without buying another battery? I'm toying with the idea of unbolting the MBP battery connector and lifting it up so I can connect it to the Macbook battery (same number of contacts, but very different case design). The Macbook battery is out of an A1181 waiting for me to raise enough funds to buy a new hard drive.

Does this version of the MBP use the same SMC circuit as the others? I know its layout is quite different from the others; it has the same two-fan cutout board profile used in the plastic case Macbook. Where is the SMC on this board?

samyz · Dec 3, 2011

hi looking for help with my problem.. my macbook late 2009 or early 2010 13" model wont turn on the dc in board has little black component what i think is burned and the white component on logicboard near lvds connector "fuse or cap"? gives no beeb from mulimeter? i am going to order new dc in board and see what happens.. it has no waterdamadge. anybody had similiar case like this ?

Dadioh · Dec 3, 2011

samyz said:
hi looking for help with my problem.. my macbook late 2009 or early 2010 13" model wont turn on the dc in board has little black component what i think is burned and the white component on logicboard near lvds connector "fuse or cap"? gives no beeb from mulimeter? i am going to order new dc in board and see what happens.. it has no waterdamadge. anybody had similiar case like this ?

If you are talking about the same white component I think you are it is a cap for the backlight circuit. See my thread on Backlight not working. If that is the component you mean then it should not beep because it is a cap, not a fuse.

Sounds like you need a new DC-in board but a few quick tests will tell you.

----------

Katotech said:
I'm working on a Macbook Pro A1260 that will not charge the battery, and will only startup using the SMC POST bypass method. This one has a checkered history - the original power adapter was ruined by a line surge (thunderstorm?). After that the battery died; it would not charge with the new adapter (I'm not certain if the owner ran the battery to death before the new adapter arrived). I opened the machine and went over the DC in board and found no overt faults. I ordered a new battery. but the system would not charge until I removed the battery, held down the power button, and plugged in the adapter before releasing the power button. I then inserted the battery without turning on the machine. It began charging, and all seemed to work well for a while.

Now the system is back in the shop with a dead battery, and it won't charge. The SMC bypass start always works, but if I disconnect the AC adapter momentarily, on the next power-up the system will shut off the backlight as soon as the boot starts, or the backlight will not turn on at all. I checked the PRAM battery; it is good at 3.08 Volts.

I managed to get the adapter to start up in charge mode (orange LED) by plugging it into a Macbook with a low battery, but when I plugged it into the MBP with its battery installed, the light turned green at the time the SDA bus normally has its initial conversation (about 1.5 seconds after adapter connection). If I power up the system, it always says no battery installed.

What are your thoughts? The battery is a third-party unit from China. Is this a case of infant mortality for the battery, did the owner somehow manage to kill it by waiting too long to charge it, or do I have a motherboard fault? I have both an oscilloscope and DMM (that's how I found the SDA signal on the battery connector). Do you have any suggestions for a definitive diagnosis without buying another battery? I'm toying with the idea of unbolting the MBP battery connector and lifting it up so I can connect it to the Macbook battery (same number of contacts, but very different case design). The Macbook battery is out of an A1181 waiting for me to raise enough funds to buy a new hard drive.

Does this version of the MBP use the same SMC circuit as the others? I know its layout is quite different from the others; it has the same two-fan cutout board profile used in the plastic case Macbook. Where is the SMC on this board?

I don't have any experience on the older MacBooks but I think the schematics are similar. Layout is completely different.

Sounds like you have a lot going on here. I would try another battery of the same type. Maybe a friend who can loan you a battery for a quick test? Jury rigging another type of Macbook battery sounds a little dangerous to me and not sure that the device in the battery would communicate correctly with the charger/SMC. I wouldn't try it.

cmdrdata · Dec 3, 2011

Dadioh said:
Sounds like you have a lot going on here. I would try another battery of the same type. Maybe a friend who can loan you a battery for a quick test? Jury rigging another type of Macbook battery sounds a little dangerous to me and not sure that the device in the battery would communicate correctly with the charger/SMC. I wouldn't try it.

I agree with you Dadioh. The BATT serial data comm (I2C) to the SMC is tuned to a particular Macbook type, thus the binary coding of status etc may change or different from one type to another (A1181 vs A1260, etc). Also with Li-Ion there is a risk of the SMC receiving code and it interprets incorrectly, and thus allowing charging to continue full current when it shouldn't etc, thus may cause a blow up. Don't do it.

samyz · Dec 3, 2011

Thanks Dadioh but is there fuse on dc in board?

cmdrdata · Dec 6, 2011

samyz said:
Thanks Dadioh but is there fuse on dc in board?

No fuse. Just a miniature transformer/RF choke, an IC that talks I2C data. Immediately after entering the logic board there is a DCIN fuse near the DCIN connector.

Dadioh · Dec 6, 2011

cmdrdata said:
No fuse. Just a miniature transformer/RF choke, an IC that talks I2C data. Immediately after entering the logic board there is a DCIN fuse near the DCIN connector.

That reminds me of an interesting side note. I had 4 liquid damaged DC-in boards I had collected over the last while. The tell tale sign was that they had a lower than expected impedance on the sense line to ground which was interfering with the signaling. I figured there was some residue left over causing the issue but rather than throw them out I ran an experiment. I ran my hot air soldering tool over them for a minute or 2 just to reflow the solder joints and possibly boil off any contaminants. The result? 4 working DC-in boards with restored impedance on the sense line.

Worth a shot if you have a DC-in that is not working due to liquid damage. What have you got to lose if you have to replace it anyways...

peislander · Dec 12, 2011

Hey,I was hoping someone could tell me if I can use the rclamp 0502b in place of the rclamp 2402b.On the data sheet for the rclamp 2402b it says the rclamp 0502b is similar but some of the specs are a bit different.Thanks

cmdrdata · Dec 12, 2011

peislander said:
Hey,I was hoping someone could tell me if I can use the rclamp 0502b in place of the rclamp 2402b.On the data sheet for the rclamp 2402b it says the rclamp 0502b is similar but some of the specs are a bit different.Thanks

The major difference is the "operating voltage". 0502 is designed to be in an environment where the circuit is around 5v logic, i.e., USB, whereas the 2402 is designed for up to 24v logic, i.e., magsafe power. These are high speed Zener diodes that protect the line from voltage transients up to 15kV (air) or 8kV (contact), so I'd think they are interchangeable since the I2C lines technically are never in contact with the magsafe power lines. The term operating voltage seemed a misnomer to me since the diodes are not powered like a typical IC.

peislander · Dec 13, 2011

cmdrdata said:
The major difference is the "operating voltage". 0502 is designed to be in an environment where the circuit is around 5v logic, i.e., USB, whereas the 2402 is designed for up to 24v logic, i.e., magsafe power. These are high speed Zener diodes that protect the line from voltage transients up to 15kV (air) or 8kV (contact), so I'd think they are interchangeable since the I2C lines technically are never in contact with the magsafe power lines. The term operating voltage seemed a misnomer to me since the diodes are not powered like a typical IC.

Ok I got a 1286 that was working on battery till I had a bit of an accident around r5127.Solder was dropped & when I went to clean it off two of the pads came off beside r5127.There was nothing on them but after that it hasn't power on again.I tested u6915 & found it was bad,replaced it & the magsafe turned green & it now charges the battery but still won't power up.I checked d6950 & I get a beep in both directions on one side of the diode.I haven't take it off yet to see if the board is causing the short.

I also have a mid 2009 Macbook Pro that after removing the RClamp 2402b still have a short on pad 1 & it measure's 69 ohms to ground.This board was working when it had a charged battery,it would slowly charge the battery,but now the battery has gone dead & it will only work with smc bypass.

Thanks again for your advice.I'll let you know how I make out.Cheers

peislander · Dec 17, 2011

peislander said:
Ok I got a 1286 that was working on battery till I had a bit of an accident around r5127.Solder was dropped & when I went to clean it off two of the pads came off beside r5127.There was nothing on them but after that it hasn't power on again.I tested u6915 & found it was bad,replaced it & the magsafe turned green & it now charges the battery but still won't power up.I checked d6950 & I get a beep in both directions on one side of the diode.I haven't take it off yet to see if the board is causing the short.

I also have a mid 2009 Macbook Pro that after removing the RClamp 2402b still have a short on pad 1 & it measure's 69 ohms to ground.This board was working when it had a charged battery,it would slowly charge the battery,but now the battery has gone dead & it will only work with smc bypass.

Thanks again for your advice.I'll let you know how I make out.Cheers

It seems the short is on the board & not d6950.I can't seem to figure out how to track down the shorts.Thanks to this thread I at least figured out how to make the magsafe turn green & charge the battery on my 1286.I'll put them back on the shelf till I can learn more.Back to the iphones,great practice for micro soldering.

Still waiting for papabear to show us where the 2 resistors are located.I wonder if he has the same issue as me & can't seem to figure out how to upload pictures.Cheers

cmdrdata · Dec 17, 2011

peislander said:
It seems the short is on the board & not d6950.I can't seem to figure out how to track down the shorts.Thanks to this thread I at least figured out how to make the magsafe turn green & charge the battery on my 1286.I'll put them back on the shelf till I can learn more.Back to the iphones,great practice for micro soldering.

Still waiting for papabear to show us where the 2 resistors are located.I wonder if he has the same issue as me & can't seem to figure out how to upload pictures.Cheers

The only way to be assured the short is in the board is by removing all components in that path. Since you did drop a solder here and possibly there

I wonder if there isn't one in this board too that is causing the short? Although I have seen a shorted PC trace in my lifetime, that was caused by an accidental high current AC voltage (125VAC line shorted to the circuit board (not a a Mac, this was real work many eons ago), I am quite doubtful about trace shorting internally, in your case.

PS: To attach file, notice that just below the submit box there is a Manage Attachment button. That's how you upload JPG files.

peislander · Dec 17, 2011

cmdrdata said:
The only way to be assured the short is in the board is by removing all components in that path. Since you did drop a solder here and possibly there I wonder if there isn't one in this board too that is causing the short? Although I have seen a shorted PC trace in my lifetime, that was caused by an accidental high current AC voltage (125VAC line shorted to the circuit board (not a a Mac, this was real work many eons ago), I am quite doubtful about trace shorting internally, in your case.

PS: To attach file, notice that just below the submit box there is a Manage Attachment button. That's how you upload JPG files.

Yes I see it now.I have my blond days.haha.I put the 1286 back together & it will now power up in SMC mode.Here's what the damage looks like.I don't know if I damaged anything around this area or further away.I jumped with solder from the pad just below the resistor to the resistor to get a bit over 3 volts on the resistor..Thanks

pyterpalooza · Dec 18, 2011

Hi,folks!

I'm a newly-arrived member of this forum. I've found great pieces of advice on this thread. However, I find myself now in need of a more specific help.

I bought a liquid-damaged Macbook Pro 15'' off eBay (MC118LL/A). I've dismantled it and brushed both the logic and Magsafe boards thoroughly with de-ionized water and isopropyl alcohol. Then I dried and reflowed then in the oven (180ºC during ~8 mins) and reassembled them.
It won't still turn on while pressing the power button; battery is charged normally, Magsafe behaves as supposed. I've detected a ~3.4 V voltage across the surroundings of many ICs referred previously in this thread (SMC, etc).
If I leave the battery connected to the board overnight, by the next day its capacity is down by ~40%.

I can´t find the pads which allow turning on with using the power button...
However, further reading suggested me the solution might also be in the 5-pin p-channel MOSFET, which work as a power switch.
On the other hand, HAT1127 (if that's the responsible) is next to impossible to find anywhere on the web, on a non-industrial level.

How can I verify if that's the issue?

Will someone please point me to the light? Thank you for sharing your experience and insights! =)

cmdrdata · Dec 23, 2011

pyterpalooza said:
Hi,folks!
I bought a liquid-damaged Macbook Pro 15'' off eBay (MC118LL/A). I've dismantled it and brushed both the logic and Magsafe boards thoroughly with de-ionized water and isopropyl alcohol. Then I dried and reflowed then in the oven (180ºC during ~8 mins) and reassembled them.
It won't still turn on while pressing the power button; battery is charged normally, Magsafe behaves as supposed. I've detected a ~3.4 V voltage across the surroundings of many ICs referred previously in this thread (SMC, etc).
If I leave the battery connected to the board overnight, by the next day its capacity is down by ~40%.

I can´t find the pads which allow turning on with using the power button...
However, further reading suggested me the solution might also be in the 5-pin p-channel MOSFET, which work as a power switch.
On the other hand, HAT1127 (if that's the responsible) is next to impossible to find anywhere on the web, on a non-industrial level.

How can I verify if that's the issue?

Will someone please point me to the light? Thank you for sharing your experience and insights! =)

If I get this right, this model (15" unibody) is NOT one of those subject to NVIDIA video chip failure (only 2007 thru 2008 pre-unibody models and older iBooks are the one I am aware of that has this problem), so baking it was an overkill and could possibly damage other stuff if not done carefully. I don't have a schematic for this particular model, so this is just a general suggestion:
HAT1127 is a p-channel power FET, and there are probably a few of these on the board. The fact that you are able to charge the battery means that system power (from magsafe or battery) is probably OK and enough to power the system (battery discharging to 40% means that battery power is being used). You've got a signaling problem that makes the CPU/SMC thinks that there is a certain signal that is not working/returning status and thus the system refuse to boot/power on. There are several signaling lines such as ALLSYS_PWRGD, CPU_PWRGD etc that may not be in the correct state, thus the system will not be enabled to power on.

Dadioh · Dec 23, 2011

pyterpalooza said:
Hi,folks!

I'm a newly-arrived member of this forum. I've found great pieces of advice on this thread. However, I find myself now in need of a more specific help.

I bought a liquid-damaged Macbook Pro 15'' off eBay (MC118LL/A). I've dismantled it and brushed both the logic and Magsafe boards thoroughly with de-ionized water and isopropyl alcohol. Then I dried and reflowed then in the oven (180ºC during ~8 mins) and reassembled them.
It won't still turn on while pressing the power button; battery is charged normally, Magsafe behaves as supposed. I've detected a ~3.4 V voltage across the surroundings of many ICs referred previously in this thread (SMC, etc).
If I leave the battery connected to the board overnight, by the next day its capacity is down by ~40%.

I can´t find the pads which allow turning on with using the power button...
However, further reading suggested me the solution might also be in the 5-pin p-channel MOSFET, which work as a power switch.
On the other hand, HAT1127 (if that's the responsible) is next to impossible to find anywhere on the web, on a non-industrial level.

How can I verify if that's the issue?

Will someone please point me to the light? Thank you for sharing your experience and insights! =)

To answer your question about the pads to turn on the Macbook, you ground pin 5 of the keyboard connector. With the Macbook open and the battery closest to you, pin 5 is counted from the left on the keyboard connector. Get a fine wire. Ground one end to one of the screw mounting holes and touch pin 5 with the other end. This will tell you if the power switch itself is bad.

I had one like this just a few days ago. I picked up a water damaged unit on eBay and, as advertised, it would not start up. Grounded pin 5 and it chimed. The power switch was damaged in the spill... Worth a shot.

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