Brightwurks Debuts 'Here's to the Crazy Ones' Letterpress Poster for Charity [Update: Pulled]

rmwebs · Dec 7, 2011

No disrespect Ron, but you're way out of line.

The end users have commented saying they dont like it. These are the people that are going to be potential customers.

You've then jumped in basically telling everyone they are idiots because they cant critique it as they have no idea about the field.

You then stamp down an opinion that it IS good, despite not providing any form of credentials or proof that you know better than anyone else.

Looking at your work, you're in no place to decide that peoples opinions are wrong. If you like it, thats great. I've got no doubts that the designer spent a lot of time on it. That doesn't make it good. People have different tastes, just because you think its a masterpiece, it doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

My personal opinion: I dont like it. It gives the impression that the author has tried too hard to incorporate all those different typesets, and personally I dont think they have arranged it as best as they could. IMO this one is better: http://www.flickr.com/photos/charliecurve/6215771597/

Finally, in future you dont need to go spouting off about how you dabble in design and such - nobody here is a judge, and absolutely everything is personal opinion, not fact - including this very post, although calling all the members a bunch of geeks is pretty damn hypocritical. I do agree about the crummy vBulletin forum skin though. I'd personally be using XenForo....beautiful system.

davidjearly · Dec 7, 2011

rmwebs said:
No disrespect Ron, but you're way out of line.

The end users have commented saying they dont like it. These are the people that are going to be potential customers.

You've then jumped in basically telling everyone they are idiots because they cant critique it as they have no idea about the field.

You then stamp down an opinion that it IS good, despite not providing any form of credentials or proof that you know better than anyone else.

Looking at your work, you're in no place to decide that peoples opinions are wrong. If you like it, thats great. I've got no doubts that the designer spent a lot of time on it. That doesn't make it good. People have different tastes, just because you think its a masterpiece, it doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

My personal opinion: I dont like it. It gives the impression that the author has tried too hard to incorporate all those different typesets, and personally I dont think they have arranged it as best as they could. IMO this one is better: http://www.flickr.com/photos/charliecurve/6215771597/

Finally, in future you dont need to go spouting off about how you dabble in design and such - nobody here is a judge, and absolutely everything is personal opinion, not fact - including this very post, although calling all the members a bunch of geeks is pretty damn hypocritical. I do agree about the crummy vBulletin forum skin though. I'd personally be using XenForo....beautiful system.

Completely disagree with you. I think Ron is one of the few that has attempted to give a valuable critique of this. It might not have been phrased in the best manner, but the vitriol of the first few commentators prompted this. It is fine to have an opinion and preference. Not everyone is going to like or love this. However, there are many on this thread that are guilty of trying to critique, rather than criticise, something which they likely know little of.

Or is every poster in this thread a master of typography and design?

SuperCachetes · Dec 7, 2011

I have my doubts that this artwork is in good taste, but I should probably keep my mouth shut because I'm no expert at velvet painting... Very professionally done, though!

powers74 said:
This is the way I would do it...

As I am getting at above, I don't think anyone has to prove they can do better just to render an opinion on something - but IMHO that is a much better effort and could've been an actual ad 20 years ago. Nice work. The text-as-shape concept is not new (I have even done it myself for posters) but it works here and what makes this better than the charity poster is that it doesn't unsuccessfully attempt to rely on the font itself to be the art component.

In fact, if you want something tangible as an attack on the charity poster, that's it - the fonts are simply randomly distributed, and each line's font doesn't appear to have anything to do with its verbiage. Ed Ruscha has a deeper message when he disassociates the typography from the text. These guys simply appear to have said "okay, we just used a thin, san serif font, now we need a really fat one with huge serifs on the next line." How very professional...

jadot · Dec 7, 2011

Seems pointless to me...

Someone said something then someone typed it out making use of their font library.
Then charge a massive fee for it potentially out-pricing a mass market, and potentially minimising the amount of money raised for charity.
Maybe print it on some fancy stock, maybe frame it, but don't post it outside the states.

Here's my effort. You can buy the file from me and print it on whatever you like. I'll donate 50% of my profits to charity. How is that any different? etc.

What a load of...how do you Americans say? Baloney.

Reddmanz · Dec 7, 2011

I personally really like it. But living in the UK means its just join got be a desktop background :/

the8thark · Dec 7, 2011

Geee it seems everyone wants to milk dead famous people for money. Steve Jobs - this poster, movie, pay to see exhibitions.

Heck they are still milking Adolf Hitler's name and picture for money.

Hitler playing cards.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036047/Snap-Hitler-star-tasteless-card-game-Germany.html

pjo · Dec 7, 2011

Ron Adair said:
... bashing a very well done piece of typographic work.

Ok, for the non graphics/design inclined like myself - what exactly makes this piece "well done"? No, I'm not being sacarstic, I'm genuinely curious. So far the main reasons I've seen being pushed is that:

it's classy / represents typical typography of the time
the fonts seem to punctuate the phrases.

beyond that, all I've seen are comments like "I know what I'm saying, you don't and I say this is great typography" without bothering to tell us why

catalystwork · Dec 7, 2011

cshearer said:
As much as I respect your credentials, you don't need a doctorate to have good taste. This is tacky, and I don't need to explain why, nor does anyone in this thread.

In all honesty, I've been using image manipulation software and enjoying art since I was 12, but again, credentials are meaningless here.

Saying that you don't like it or find it tacky are personal judgements and opinions that everyone is entitled to have and share with the the same weight and respect.

I only meant the criticisms towards those who would assign empirical judgements about the quality of the typography, particularly those calling it "template" or "lazy". I would hazard a guess that none of those people have spent much time typesetting to make such reckless and erroneous judgements without qualification.

My apologies to any and all who felt I was saying "I am a professional designer, therefore my taste is more important than yours". I didn't mean that at all. There is no accounting for taste. We like what we like, and don't have to justify it to anyone, I agree.

cshearer · Dec 7, 2011

catalystwork said:
Saying that you don't like it or find it tacky are personal judgements and opinions that everyone is entitled to have and share with the the same weight and respect.

I only meant the criticisms towards those who would assign empirical judgements about the quality of the typography, particularly those calling it "template" or "lazy". I would hazard a guess that none of those people have spent much time typesetting to make such reckless and erroneous judgements without qualification.

My apologies to any and all who felt I was saying "I am a professional designer, therefore my taste is more important than yours". I didn't mean that at all. There is no accounting for taste. We like what we like, and don't have to justify it to anyone, I agree.

Understood, thanks for the clarification. I think I'm personally sore about the design because it wouldn't work anywhere in my house. Some people who have posted here have made enjoying or not enjoying this poster not so much fun. It's like walking into a Guitar Center, finding a guitar you think is ugly looking, and having a rep come over and say "You don't know anything about guitars, how can you possibly not like that? You couldn't even tell me why it's not a good design, could you? SHOW MEH CREDENSHULLS".

Haha, sheesh.

catalystwork · Dec 7, 2011

pjo said:
Ok, for the non graphics/design inclined like myself - what exactly makes this piece "well done"? No, I'm not being sacarstic, I'm genuinely curious. So far the main reasons I've seen being pushed is that:

it's classy / represents typical typography of the time

the fonts seem to punctuate the phrases.

beyond that, all I've seen are comments like "I know what I'm saying, you don't and I say this is great typography" without bothering to tell us why

I can tell you that is a tough style to work in, as it creates a myriad of interdependant negative space problems that have to be addressed. In this regard, the piece does a good job, not a great job, but a good job.

The pacing of the piece and the punctuation, which is to say how the layout makes you read it, is great in my mind. It imposes a very expressive read of the text, that works quite well in my opinion.

the overall visual balance is also good, although I would have liked to see better rhythm with the negative space.

"Classy" doesn't factor in for me. That would be more of a personal judgement, and it doesn't necessarily make it "good". I brought up the period piece aesthetic comment only to point out that it does not purport to be original. That doesn't make it any better or worse, necessariily.

Ironically, I did a piece like this as a student about a decade ago. I dug up an old image and attached it for fun. When you read it, you can tell it is student quality work. There is nowhere near the level of punctuation, expressiveness, or risks taken when you compare it to the letterpress piece.

JustinP81 · Dec 7, 2011

I thought this poster looks cool.

I bought it.

Isn't that all that matters? If YOU like it?

(and for the record, I'm a full time artist.)

danahn17 · Dec 7, 2011

I don't think the design is as bad as many on here are making it out to be. It's pretty difficult to make a typography poster that has a good balance of sizes, fonts, expressiveness, positive/negative space, etc... I've made these types of posters before and it was much more difficult than I anticipated it to be.

While this particular poster isn't amazing (and some things like stating the quote is from Steve Jobs irks me), it does a pretty good job... And it has a lot of character to it. I'll even dare say it's better than many of the alternates posted here. Yes, it's not in the typical Apple style, but it doesn't have to be... not everything needs to be minimalistic, "classy," and made of glass and aluminum. What a boring world that would be!

However, I will say that at $95, it is a bit steep... but then again, it's for charity too so I guess it's okay.

jadot · Dec 7, 2011

So, yes and no then.

yawn...

danahn17 said:
I don't think the design is as bad as many on here are making it out to be. It's pretty difficult to make a typography poster that has a good balance of sizes, fonts, expressiveness, positive/negative space, etc... I've made these types of posters before and it was much more difficult than I anticipated it to be.

While this particular poster isn't amazing (and some things like stating the quote is from Steve Jobs irks me), it does a pretty good job... And it has a lot of character to it. I'll even dare say it's better than many of the alternates posted here. Yes, it's not in the typical Apple style, but it doesn't have to be... not everything needs to be minimalistic, "classy," and made of glass and aluminum. What a boring world that would be!

However, I will say that at $95, it is a bit steep... but then again, it's for charity too so I guess it's okay.

RoboCop001 · Dec 7, 2011

Definitely not for me. Too much to look at, in my opinion. Font overload! lol.

As a designer the effort is appreciable, but it's just not attractive to me.

Old Muley · Dec 7, 2011

Looks like it could be a menu for T.G.I.Fridays...

jayducharme · Dec 7, 2011

Old Muley said:
Looks like it could be a menu for T.G.I.Fridays...

LOL! THAT'S where I've seen it before!

powers74 said:
I just took a couple minutes out of an actual design project. I love a challenge.

Now that one, I like.

jmgregory1 · Dec 7, 2011

Whether people like the poster or not or whether they think it's well designed or not, I would only say that my dislike for it is related to the fact that I've seen far too many similarly designed pieces over the past 15 years working for a small chain of stationery stores that designed, manufactured and sold stationery and invitations. From in-house designers to third party products, this look has seen its day - at least for me it has.

I'm sure there are others who feel similarly and maybe are just trying too hard to explain the feeling in terms of font usage, spacing, etc.

It's an over-used design theme and even the use of letterpress, to me, is something that needs a break. I'm not saying that letterpress isn't a great print method, but it seems like every designer has jumped onto the letterpress bandwagon - which just further reinforces my feeling that this type of design theme is overdone.

iScott428 · Dec 7, 2011

I LOVE it, and the personality it brings to the quote. I also think it will look great in between two of the "Think Different" Posters when put up on a wall. 100$ more for the frame is ridiculous though, at least all proceeds go to charity. :apple:

roadbloc · Dec 7, 2011

"An unmatched left quote creates an unresolved tension that will stay with you all day.

Ron Adair · Dec 7, 2011

rmwebs said:
calling all the members a bunch of geeks is pretty damn hypocritical.

I disagree. First of all, allow me to clarify: I consider myself as much the 'geek' as those I label earlier, hence my presence here in the first place. 'Geek' was not used as an offensive term, but was rather meant as an ironic label for those engaging in the conversation.

rmwebs said:
The end users have commented saying they dont like it.

Pardon me, but that is NOT what a majority of the negative comments stated. If that had been the crux of their message, I would have never said a word. Instead, they attacked the pieces quality and level of skill employed, using the terms "crap", "font-masturbation first-attempt", "amateur and uninspired", "lazy", "horrid", "Not classy", "crappy", "Steve would HATE this", "horrendous", 'fitting of a cease and desist letter', "looks pretty poor", "Worst poster ever", "tacky", and yet a few folks (you included) have indicated that "credentials are meaningless here".

My response was probably a bit strong, but it could well be argued that it is perfectly balanced against the diatribes spewed against something that is technically and artistically well done.

rmwebs said:
My personal opinion: I dont like it. It gives the impression that the author has tried too hard to incorporate all those different typesets, and personally I dont think they have arranged it as best as they could. IMO this one is better: http://www.flickr.com/photos/charliecurve/6215771597/

The proper term is 'typefaces'. It's fine to have an opinion (and yours is noted) but many of the folks here are bashing a piece of work and calling it "poor" with absolutely no appreciable knowledge or background in design or typesetting. It's pretty easy to tell who is a designer and who is not simply by the terms they use and the tone of their attack.

rmwebs said:
I do agree about the crummy vBulletin forum skin though. I'd personally be using XenForo....beautiful system.

My main intent isn't to knock the choice of forum software or design of the site, but to highlight the paradox of critics who take offense to a piece of purportedly out of date artwork which is brought to them by a site that shares the look and feel of its ancestors 10 years past. Yes, it is the epitome of paradox.

fifthworld · Dec 7, 2011

Ron Adair said:
I disagree. First of all, allow me to clarify: I consider myself as much the 'geek' as those I label earlier, hence my presence here in the first place. 'Geek' was not used as an offensive term, but was rather meant as an ironic label for those engaging in the conversation.

Pardon me, but that is NOT what a majority of the negative comments stated. If that had been the crux of their message, I would have never said a word. Instead, they attacked the pieces quality and level of skill employed, using the terms "crap", "font-masturbation first-attempt", "amateur and uninspired", "lazy", "horrid", "Not classy", "crappy", "Steve would HATE this", "horrendous", 'fitting of a cease and desist letter', "looks pretty poor", "Worst poster ever", "tacky", and yet a few folks (you have included have indicated that "credentials are meaningless here".

My response was probably a bit strong, but it could well be argued that it is perfectly balanced against the diatribes spewed against something that is technically and artistically well done.

The proper term is 'typefaces'. It's fine to have an opinion (and yours is noted) but many of the folks here are bashing a piece of work and calling it "poor" with absolutely no appreciable knowledge or background in design or typesetting. It's pretty easy to tell who is a designer and who is not simply by the terms they use and the tone of their attack.

My main intent isn't to knock the choice of forum software or design of the site, but to highlight the paradox of critics who take offense to a piece of purportedly out of date artwork which is brought to them by a site that shares the look and feel of its ancestors 10 years past. Yes, it is the epitome of paradox.

It's all irrelevant, if the poster doesn't rise as much money it could have if designed differently, it's a design failure, regardless how much it showcases the technical and artistic abilities of their creators, or the lack of them.

VNederlander · Dec 7, 2011

Having spent nearly 20 years as a designer and Creative Director, I can say definitively that the one constant is the cattiness of designers. "I could do that better," seems to be the tagline of the designer world, where ego is everything and the worry of being proved wrong is non-existant, because what we do is completely subjective.

To be sure, there are some design choices that are universally reviled, and almost any amateur can pick out a piece that enjoyed care and thought vs. one that didn't.

This poster, as it seems many of you might have missed, evokes memories of the original Mac's wysiwyg font menu. If that was intended, I anticipate at least some of you would say, "oooOOOOooooh, NOW I get it." If it wasn't intended, it's a happy coincidence that it has deeper meaning than simply being an arrangement of display faces.

I, for one, like it. Would I have done any of it differently? Of course I would have, I'm a designer, and we don't leave things alone until they look right *to us*. But I didn't design this poster, so I don't get to make those choices. Instead, I get to appreciate the perspective of another designer, find the beauty in his (or her) choices, and decide whether it accomplishes its task. I feel this poster works well.

That said, $95 is a pretty big hit for a poster in this economy. One thing that ISN'T subjective is economics, and that price point is totally unrealistic, regardless of the printing process and paper used.

The bigger point though, is what I always tell my designers: design for meaning, design for beauty. NEVER for ego.

----------

JustinP81 said:
I thought this poster looks cool.

I bought it.

Isn't that all that matters? If YOU like it?

(and for the record, I'm a full time artist.)

In the end, exactly. Yes. That is all that matters.

vinyl313 · Dec 7, 2011

Subjective

All these I'm right and you're wrong comments seem a little childish. Opinions are being expressed as fact. Someone factually declaring they have taste makes me question even more if they have any at all.

It seems to me that this poster is the artist's interpretation of the text. If you like the work or not is subjective. Sure, its certainly up for debate but there is a serious difference between:

"This poster is crap"
"My opinion is this poster is crap"

danahn17 · Dec 7, 2011

jadot said:
So, yes and no then.

yawn...

Hm... so i guess it's not okay to find pros and cons in a product. And if you didn't catch it the first time around, I implied that for the most part, I liked the print.

flottenheimer · Dec 7, 2011

Steve wouldn't have liked this design, for sure.
Neither do I.

Brightwurks Debuts 'Here's to the Crazy Ones' Letterpress Poster for Charity [Update: Pulled]

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