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View Poll Results: Remove vote buttons?
Yes 219 29.32%
No 387 51.81%
Like Button Only 119 15.93%
Other 22 2.95%
Voters: 747. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Dec 5, 2011, 05:53 PM   #51
MagnusVonMagnum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benguitar View Post
Either way, Saying you don't like something does nothing to help any situation. Where liking something shows that the liker has shown interest in their topic, agrees with what they said or is encouraging them.

The internet is a harsh enough place already, The dislike voting option has done nothing to restrict meaningless replies. I think it only encourages them.


You are allowed to disagree, I just don't see why it is necessary to have your disagreement stated publicly. As I said before, It does NOTHING to solve the problem.
Can you even imagine a world where you are not allowed to disagree with someone? It would be insane. The purpose of disagreeing in a DISCUSSION forum is to present a different point of view to those that have not made up their minds (or to convince the person you are talking to that their view is not the only viable one). The purpose of disagreeing in a vote is to let people know that their idea isn't universally accepted, which is the ONLY thing you can garner from positive votes. People agree with me ergo I must be right. I'd rather see the voting system removed entirely than be completely one-sided.

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No clue what you meant by that..
It means that forcing someone to say 'darn' instead of damn doesn't change the intended meaning and more importantly, the person. That is where political correctness is just plain silly. Calling someone a "sanitary engineer" doesn't change the fact they're a garbage man. Calling someone "horizontally challenged" doesn't make them less fat. It just sounds ridiculous. But that is the kind of society we seem to be living in today. You aren't allowed to call a spade a spade. You must call it a soil transplantation device.

Heaven forbid we communicate openly and honestly and instead doll it up with niceties and misdirection and yes, smokescreens that try to avoid hurting anyone's feelings, but ultimately are still saying the exact same things. The problem is that even when it 'seems' to work for awhile, sooner or later the new word inevitably and always itself receives a negative connotation because it STILL means the same thing! Because someone doesn't want to be "fat", they soon don't want to be called "horizontally challenged" either because we all still know it means they're overweight and the condition is the problem, not the word describing it. The absurdity of it all knows no bounds. But some feel-good types with good intentions (but very little logic) has lead to the absurdity factor we face on a daily basis. George Carlin tried to address this, but in a comical way and the method is reductio ad absurdum and it's funny because it's true and the new labels are just plain ridiculous sounding in most cases, especially when you know what they're actually referring to (sanitary engineer in particular comes to mind and when you actually went to college for many years to get a degree in order to actually be called an engineer, it's also patronizing to an extent. I cannot just call myself a Doctor because I want to be called that...well I could but it would be ridiculous and so is political correctness for the same reason. It attempts to hide what something is by giving it a new name as if that somehow makes it different.)
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Old Dec 5, 2011, 06:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Can you even imagine a world where you are not allowed to disagree with someone? It would be insane. The purpose of disagreeing in a DISCUSSION forum is to present a different point of view to those that have not made up their minds (or to convince the person you are talking to that their view is not the only viable one). The purpose of disagreeing in a vote is to let people know that their idea isn't universally accepted, which is the ONLY thing you can garner from positive votes.
Except the system doesn't work this way!

This thread, for example, has a vote tally of -8.

The voting system is flawed. Period.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 01:00 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
Except the system doesn't work this way!

This thread, for example, has a vote tally of -8.
It means that out of all the people that viewed the thread, the general consensus is that it was a bad idea to post a tutorial on how to unlock your iPhone. In other words, the fanboys on here don't like people doing things that Apple disapproves of. That's not a flaw in the voting system, it's the sad fact that there are one heck of a lot of Apple worshiping fanatics on here and they like to gang up and vote down everything that Steve Jobs wouldn't have approved of.

Quote:
The voting system is flawed. Period.
I'd say the same about the voting system in the USA. It's deeply flawed from the electoral college to the ignorance of the general public to the unlimited funds the Supreme Court now allows corporations to spend to brainwash people in their favor. That doesn't mean I'd rather not vote.

Again, I'd say it'd be better to tally + and - votes separately rather than have them cancel each other out as I indicated above as that would at least tell you if there are some people that appreciate what you are saying rather than get the idea that it's just unpopular (e.g. 50 negative and 45 positive would look like -5 negative as it stands now and that doesn't tell you about the other 45 negative or 45 positive votes at all).
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 01:24 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
It means that out of all the people that viewed the thread, the general consensus is that it was a bad idea to post a tutorial on how to unlock your iPhone. In other words, the fanboys on here don't like people doing things that Apple disapproves of. That's not a flaw in the voting system, it's the sad fact that there are one heck of a lot of Apple worshiping fanatics on here and they like to gang up and vote down everything that Steve Jobs wouldn't have approved of.
unlocking ≠ jailbreaking

Apple does not "disapprove" of carrier unlocking. There's even an Apple support page on the very topic.

So now that it's not because "Apple disapproves" of carrier unlocking...what is your new reason as to why the thread was downvoted?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I'd say the same about the voting system in the USA. It's deeply flawed from the electoral college to the ignorance of the general public to the unlimited funds the Supreme Court now allows corporations to spend to brainwash people in their favor.
No argument that it's flawed. But while we're comparing the voting system on this site to the US voting system, please name even one country where you can "downvote" someone in an election.

In every political election in every jurisdiction in any country on the planet...you either give the candidate your upvote, or you give no vote at all.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 02:23 AM   #55
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I really like the voting feature. After posting on this site for years I noticed that additions to the message boards are pretty few and far between, so when I saw the voting arrows I thought it was a cool extra way to participate.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 07:52 AM   #56
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I too like the vote buttons. Its easier to do that then "+1" which gets you a warning.

Sure its abused sometimes, but not all the time.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 09:26 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
Sure its abused sometimes, but not all the time.
In my experience, it's abused all the time. But I only really visit the iPhone forum. It may work better in other sub-forums.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 12:18 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
In my experience, it's abused all the time. But I only really visit the iPhone forum. It may work better in other sub-forums.
No one forces you to visit Macrumors and participate in the forums now do they? If you don't like it, then don't come to Macrumors... By coming here, they make their ad revenue, if you don't come here they stop getting ad revenue (should enough people stop coming to macrumors).

What is really funny, is that several of your posts are getting rated further down now that you keep using those as examples of "mis-use" of the rating system. If you had used someone else's posts as examples, you might have had/made a good point. Now it just makes you look like a big whiner...
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 01:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by paulrbeers View Post
several of your posts are getting rated further down now that you keep using those as examples of "mis-use"
...which in and of itself is a perfect example of the misuse that warrants the downvoting system being eliminated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrbeers View Post
No one forces you to visit Macrumors and participate in the forums now do they? If you don't like it, then don't come to Macrumors... By coming here, they make their ad revenue, if you don't come here they stop getting ad revenue
I use Adblock Plus so they get no ad revenue from my visits anyway.

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Old Dec 7, 2011, 01:58 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
...which in and of itself is a perfect example of the misuse that warrants the downvoting system being eliminated.
...or it's the textbook example of the system functioning as intended.
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 02:19 PM   #61
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...or it's the textbook example of the system functioning as intended.
Explain? Not sure if serious or trolling...
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 02:45 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Benguitar View Post
Watch this post get a ton of down votes.
You only got one ton. I got 13 tons.

How come Arn never gets negative votes?
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Old Dec 7, 2011, 02:54 PM   #63
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Bet you couldn't see that coming.....
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Old Dec 8, 2011, 05:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
unlocking ≠ jailbreaking

Apple does not "disapprove" of carrier unlocking. There's even an Apple support page on the very topic.

So now that it's not because "Apple disapproves" of carrier unlocking...what is your new reason as to why the thread was downvoted?[COLOR="#808080"]
WTF do I need a "new" reason and what's with the attitude? It's this emotional reaction to everything that leads to irrational "voting" in the first place. And frankly, you assume people aren't ignorant of those differences and are educated enough in the subjects to make a good vote. That's simply not the case in society in general and certainly isn't the case on here where every Apple fanatic argues purely from emotion rather than logic and often doesn't even know what they're talking about to boot.

In other words, you explanation about unlocking versus "jailbreaking" should make sense, but did the people voting negative know that difference when they voted? You can't assume they did. I would venture it's more likely they didn't (and Apple attitude towards unlocking used to be very different and not everyone is up-to-date on everything here either). Heck, they might have just wandered into the thread and felt the post was boring or something and voted negative for wasting their time.

Frankly, I wonder why people vote for more property taxes (usually a school, fire, police or library levy) every time it happens, but then I have no kids and pay through the nose already. Ask the guy living in a trailer and three kids why he voted for a school levy and you'll have a reason that makes sense to him (he isn't paying the lions share of it and wants a good school for his kids...how nice of him to vote for ME to pay for his kids to go to school). Whether people should even get equal votes when they don't have equal stakes or knowledge is another question (and whether people should be allowed to have kids when they cannot afford in the first place which creates that situation where other people end up paying for them than had them is yet another one society doesn't want to address, but should be forced to given our overpopulation problem on this planet).

Notice how my previous post (which is completely rational and suggests something very helpful...a full tally) got negative votes like crazy. It's probably because I used the word "fanboys" in reference to those that don't always behave in a "logical" fashion on here. That gets them in an emotional uproar and they vote negative any time it's pointed out that they are emotional, illogical and often fanatical. But then they are only proving my point every single time they do it and most of the rational people on here know it (look at ANY thread where someone says something against Apple very early on in the thread, no matter how logical, accurate and helpful it may be, it will get CLOBBERED with negative votes by these people every single time.

I mean can you have a logical rational conversation with a groupie of a rock band? Of course not. They worship that group and therefore everything they do is good even when it's not and that's the weird situation we have Apple fanatics. Apple is good even when it's evil.

Quote:
No argument that it's flawed. But while we're comparing the voting system on this site to the US voting system, please name even one country where you can "downvote" someone in an election.

In every political election in every jurisdiction in any country on the planet...you either give the candidate your upvote, or you give no vote at all.
WTF? There's a HUGE difference between voting "no" or "against" something and "not voting at all" for goodness sake. If you don't know the difference, perhaps you need to do some reading on how a democracy works?

Frankly, "yes" (positive for a person/measure) and "no" (negative/against a person/measure) are pretty much the same thing as "up" (I agree) and "down" (I don't agree). If you can't figure that much out, then I'm giving you way too much credit in even bothering to reply in the first place, I think.
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Old Dec 8, 2011, 05:51 PM   #65
b24pgg
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
WTF do I need a "new" reason
...because I debunked the first reason you gave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
It's this emotional reaction to everything that leads to irrational "voting" in the first place.
A valid reason as to why the system is flawed, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
you explanation about unlocking versus "jailbreaking" should make sense, but did the people voting negative know that difference when they voted?
If people don't understand a topic, why are they voting in the first place? Flaw #2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
they might have just wandered into the thread and felt the post was boring or something and voted negative for wasting their time.
...which is yet another perfect example of how the voting system provides no value.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
There's a HUGE difference between voting "no" or "against" something and "not voting at all"
I'm glad you understand that, because you didn't originally. You compared the voting system on MacRumors (up/down) to the political voting system in the United States (vote or no vote.) That comparison makes no sense.
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Old Dec 8, 2011, 09:25 PM   #66
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Keeep the voting system. Best tool to use when skimming threads. I vote. If you don't vote, don't complain.. what my momma always said.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 10:16 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
...because I debunked the first reason you gave.
I must have missed where you debunked anything. Let me check again... Nope. Not a thing.

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A valid reason as to why the system is flawed, no?
The problem is that you cannot comprehend the difference between a flaw in the "voting system" and the flaws in people in general.

Quote:
If people don't understand a topic, why are they voting in the first place? Flaw #2.
That has nothing to do with the voting system. It has to do with the people voting. If you would like to talk about WHOM should be allowed to vote, whether on here or in real life that's another issue, but it's not the fault of the system itself that people are ignorant. Blame the school system if you want, but not the vote. It's like blaming a car (instead of the driver) for a car wreck when the driver was texting. It's not the car's fault.

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...which is yet another perfect example of how the voting system provides no value.
I can argue your posts provide no value and therefore you should be removed from the system more readily than you can argue effectively that the voting system has no value.

Quote:
I'm glad you understand that, because you didn't originally. You compared the voting system on MacRumors (up/down) to the political voting system in the United States (vote or no vote.) That comparison makes no sense.
If a tax levy comes up, I most assuredly CAN vote NO, not just choose to not vote. When it comes to people, you generally vote for someone else instead. There is no way to do that here since everyone's post stands alone, not in a line-up for a poll who had the best response in the thread. You seem to assume one is voting for or against the PERSON on here. But that is not the case. You are voting for or against the POST they put up on an individual basis. This is like a tax levy, not like picking a President. If you cannot comprehend that, you need to go back to school, IMO because it doesn't get any simpler.

Last edited by MagnusVonMagnum; Dec 10, 2011 at 10:22 PM.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 10:53 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I must have missed where you debunked anything.
Here's a refresher for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
the general consensus is that it was a bad idea to post a tutorial on how to unlock your iPhone. In other words, the fanboys on here don't like people doing things that Apple disapproves of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
unlocking ≠ jailbreaking

Apple does not "disapprove" of carrier unlocking. There's even an Apple support page on the very topic.
tl;dr you claimed the downvotes were because of Apple's and the voters' disapproval of unlocking; I debunked your claim by explaining how unlocking ≠ jailbreaking, and how Apple even provides unlocking support on its website.

Get it now?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
If a tax levy comes up, I most assuredly CAN vote NO, not just choose to not vote.
You weren't talking about tax levies the first time. This was your comparison to the US voting system:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I'd say the same about the voting system in the USA. It's deeply flawed from the electoral college to the ignorance of the general public to the unlimited funds the Supreme Court now allows corporations to spend to brainwash people in their favor. That doesn't mean I'd rather not vote.
Nice try changing your tune, but by referencing the electoral college you quite obviously were making a comparison to candidate voting, not referendum voting.
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 04:22 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by SGMD1 View Post
Here's a refresher for you:

tl;dr you claimed the downvotes were because of Apple's and the voters' disapproval of unlocking; I debunked your claim by explaining how unlocking ≠ jailbreaking, and how Apple even provides unlocking support on its website.

Get it now?
I listed some possible explanations for why it might be negative. You, however, seem to think because the vote makes no logical sense to you, the whole system is flawed. However, the votes in no way affect your ability to post, mark your reputation and so matter little expect in your own mind. There's no point in me suggesting anything to you, however, since you appear to be more interested in being 'right' in your mind than hearing a possible explanation. Thus, I can only conclude talking to you is a complete waste of anyone's time since you seem to want to debate, not discuss. People debating don't listen. They just look for a crack to pound with a hammer. There is no point in replying to them so I will now stop after this post.

Quote:
You weren't talking about tax levies the first time. This was your comparison to the US voting system:

Nice try changing your tune, but by referencing the electoral college you quite obviously were making a comparison to candidate voting, not referendum voting.
I never changed my tune at all, which is why I was so perplexed by your absolutely ridiculous sounding statements that in the "US Voting System" you cannot vote yes or no. You are the one that made an absolute statement not me. I was simply listing some example flaws in the voting system as a whole, not making an exact comparison to this single issue and if you re-read what I said, it's easy to see that (at least for a normal person).

Like I said, you seem to be trying to debate like they do in school, not rationally discuss an issue. You miss the forest for the trees and therefore are immature in your ability to effectively communicate with anyone and so it should not be surprising when people vote negatively to what you say since you will inevitably irritate the living heck out of people by trying to play games with their words instead of their intents. Have fun talking to yourself in the future.
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Old Dec 11, 2011, 04:29 PM   #70
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 09:26 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Like I said, you seem to be trying to debate like they do in school, not rationally discuss an issue. You miss the forest for the trees and therefore are immature in your ability to effectively communicate with anyone and so it should not be surprising when people vote negatively to what you say since you will inevitably irritate the living heck out of people by trying to play games with their words instead of their intents. Have fun talking to yourself in the future.
Wow....just, wow.

I'm assuming you know the definition of irony?
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 11:14 PM   #72
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Wow....just, wow.

I'm assuming you know the definition of irony?
I'll tell you the definition of irony if you tell me the definition of couth.
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 05:58 PM   #73
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Why don't we start using the thread rating to decide if there is anything useful in the thread, and then remove the down vote.

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Old Jan 1, 2012, 07:03 PM   #74
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I think that's a good idea - rating the thread overall. We can report bad postings with the "!" already, so the no vote seems somewhat a duplication. If a person disagrees with a poster, why not add a post rather than just anonymously clicking a down arrow.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 02:27 PM   #75
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If you don't like the voting system, all that you have to do is go around canceling out other people's votes so that they're all neutral (0). Then the voting system will probably be removed entirely.
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