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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:39 AM   #1
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Police Arrest 141 New York City Merchants in Stolen iPhone Sting







The New York Post reports that a sting conducted by the New York Police Department last week targeting vendors suspected of selling stolen iPhones resulted in 141 arrests as the city works to cut down the market feeding on such thefts. According to the report, undercover officers approached workers at over 600 locations suspected of participating in sales of stolen iPhones and offered the devices to workers at low prices while stating that they had been stolen from their owners.
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Undercover NYPD officers sold the electronics to merchants at more than 600 stores around the five boroughs this week -- asking from $50 to $200 for iPhone 4s and iPad 2s -- after clearly stating the popular gadgets were stolen, said NYPD spokesman Paul Browne.

The sting -- which nabbed clerks and workers at businesses such as supermarkets, barbershops, pawnshops and bodegas -- began Tuesday and continued through yesterday.

"That's our intention, to reduce the places where people who steal these things can go and sell them," said NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly. "If someone is offering you an iPad for way below market value, you have to realize that it's most likely stolen."
iPhones are popular targets for thieves in New York and elsewhere, with an officer in one New York precinct reporting that in some months more than half of the reported robberies involve an iPhone.

The popularity of Apple's devices has not only driven an active market in thefts and resales of the stolen property, but also in counterfeiting. Apple has been targeting vendors selling counterfeit Apple products in New York City and elsewhere, seeking to shut down those companies making unauthorized profits on Apple's name with knockoff products.

Article Link: Police Arrest 141 New York City Merchants in Stolen iPhone Sting
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:44 AM   #2
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Good. I know 3 people who were robbed, 2 at gunpoint, because these filthy people wanted their phones. Enough is enough.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:47 AM   #3
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Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:48 AM   #4
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This is awesome news. It's not just NYC but everywhere. There have been people MURDERED over an iPhone here in Orlando. I hope these people receive the maximum penalty allowed by law.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
Cop: I have a stolen iPhone to sell you.

Criminal: That's fine, I'll take it to make money.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
I don't know why some people are appalled by the idea of entrapment. Yeah, I know there are a few states in which entrapment is prohibited but the bottom line is, if you're not effing up, entrapment shouldn't be an issue. These people were made aware that the items were stolen and moved forward with the transaction anyway. In my opinion, entrapment is fully justified and acceptable. They got what they deserved.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
If you're a store owner, you have every right to turn down the offer. Tell me. If you were a merchant and some shady dude offered to slip you an iPhone for cash, would you do it?

If you answered no, then congrats, you're an honorable person who won't go to jail for it, *and* you're not supporting an ecosystem of thugs! YAY!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
Showing someone an opportunity to commit a crime is not entrapment. It becomes entrapment when the police officer convinces a person to commit a crime who otherwise wouldn't have committed it. Ask yourself: Would these people have bought the phones off a thief?

"That guy has a nice watch" - not entrapment. "That guy has a nice watch. He won't put up much of a fight if you take it off him. What, are you a coward? " - entrapment.


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Originally Posted by Caliber26 View Post
I don't know why some people are appalled by the idea of entrapment. Yeah, I know there are a few states in which entrapment is prohibited but the bottom line is, if you're not effing up, entrapment shouldn't be an issue. These people were made aware that the items were stolen and moved forward with the transaction anyway. In my opinion, entrapment is fully justified and acceptable. They got what they deserved.
Entrapment isn't fine, but this is most likely not entrapment. There is a fine line, and you would hope that a police officer would know how to stay on the right side of that line. Being clever in catching criminals is not entrapment.

Last edited by gnasher729; Dec 19, 2011 at 10:02 AM.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by trainwrecka View Post
Cop: I have a stolen iPhone to sell you.

Criminal: That's fine, I'll take it to make money.
Exactly. Entrapment is only the forcing of people to commit a crime they would not otherwise commit. This is not a bait and switch.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
For those arguing it's entrapment, here's the definition from wikipedia:

In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.[1] In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime.

Essentially, these 'businesses' buy stolen goods regardless of wether the officer would provide it or not. The police in this situation just proved what was already happening and therefore it is LEGAL.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:12 AM   #11
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How can you defend these shop owners? They are giving ppl a reason to steal so they are just as guilty. This was no way entrapment hope they throw the book at them. Muggings are so low
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by SongEmu View Post
If you're a store owner, you have every right to turn down the offer.

<snip>
I'd say it goes even further:

If you're a store owner, you have an obligation under law to turn down the offer. To accept is to become a willing accessory to the robbery.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rondue View Post
Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.
It's not entrapment if the person was willing and ready to break the law and the agents merely provided the opportunity. However, if the undercover agents used forceful and repeated persuasion to convince someone to break the law or they lied and said that the units were not stolen, then the person charged has a case that they were entrapped.

The overall NYC crime rate is very low (especially for a large city). It surprises me that they the rate of these types of crimes is apparently quite high. I ride the subway 6 days a week (at least). I've never seen such a crime happen. No one I know has had this type of crime happen to them. But I don't ride the trains at 2am. I suspect most of these crimes happen late at night.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Caliber26 View Post
. There have been people MURDERED over an iPhone here in Orlando. I hope these people receive the maximum penalty allowed by law.
Similar story here in the UK. Its frightening to know how far people can go to rob you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-15928972
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:19 AM   #15
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"That's our intention, to reduce the places where people who steal these things can go and sell them,"
Yep. Stake out the local "Barbershop" and start canvasing those Supermarkets. For god's sake... doesn't the NYPD have anything better to do?
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:20 AM   #16
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Kill the market for stolen phones

It is time to create a law in the U.S. that is common in some (not sure how many) develop countries to eliminate the market for stolen phones. Currently in the US, when a phone is stolen, it is only deactivated and blocked by your carrier. If it were deactivated and blocked by all US carriers, then it would immediately collapse the market for stolen phones as the thief just wouldn't be able to sell for as rich a price. Eliminate the price premium and the thieves will not have as much an incentive to steal phones.

Just think how much money is invested into the law enforcement, reporting, and investigating into stolen phones. If the market for stolen phones can effectively be made unattractive, then all that law enforcement costs drop or can be applied to more important matters for society.

Australia does it pretty effectively and this is save consumers a tremendous amount of money because the number of phones stolen is dropping a staggering rates.
http://www.amta.org.au/pages/amta/Th...stry.Statement
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:23 AM   #17
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and why don't carriers blacklist stolen devices? they should be held accountable as well for allowing the cycle to perpetuate even though they have the means to put an end to it - or least put a dent in it.

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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:25 AM   #18
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I hope

I hope this will prevent someone from stealing my iPhone. I grew up with the notion that if you buy a known stolen item it is the same as if you stole it.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Frankie4Fingers View Post
Yep. Stake out the local "Barbershop" and start canvasing those Supermarkets. For god's sake... doesn't the NYPD have anything better to do?
So the police should ignore the growing problem of theft of electronic devices and the violence that accompanies it? What would you have the police doing?
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:28 AM   #20
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Cop: Hey, I've got some hot iPads I can sell you real cheap.

****
Defense Attorney: Mr. xxx, what was your understanding when the officer called the iPads "hot."

Defendant: Why, I took it to mean extremely popular and fashionable.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:30 AM   #21
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This is entrapment, no doubt about it. Apple should demand NYPD put a stop to it. It's bad publicity.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie4Fingers View Post
Yep. Stake out the local "Barbershop" and start canvasing those Supermarkets. For god's sake... doesn't the NYPD have anything better to do?
You've obviously never had your iPhone containing all your personal information stolen. I hope you never do. It's a very terrible event.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:33 AM   #23
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Would agree that one could think it was not the best use of police time, but like many things in life, if you give a few minutes to think it through, it is a good idea.

If this particular crime goes unabated, and it becomes profitable, it will only grow. As said by another, once the cops can slow this down, then they can spend more time on other stuff.

As to carriers blacklisting. That sure seems to make sense. They know EXACTLY which phones are out there. If they did not alllow those phones to activate, theft would drop WAY down.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:40 AM   #24
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

This is entrapment, no doubt about it. Apple should demand NYPD put a stop to it. It's bad publicity.
No doubt you also think it's OK to steal music over the internet. Shame!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:44 AM   #25
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If someone is told an item is stolen and they accept it, they deserve to go to jail. End of story. I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

The thief could've killed the person, hurt them really bad, or just took what someone worked hard to get. And especially a store owner who can face being robbed daily?????? You're going to provide a route for criminals to make money? Hope they are prosecuted to the fullest.
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