Apple Bringing Store-Within-a-Store Concept to Target?

BB Deals

They had a decent deal at christmas, $100 off iMacs, plus 18 months no interest and I got a $100 BB Gift Certificate through Reward Zone.

sessamoid said:

Apple is doing this because Target shares the same retail philosophy as Apple.

Nobody here has picked up on the fact that the guy who Apple brought in to start the Apple retail initiative (Ron Johnson, now CEO of JC Penny) was VP of Merchandising at Target.

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Not to be arguementative, but Apple is doing this to further increase exposure and BB is on the not so gentle slope to irrelevance. Like Borders : Barnes and Nobles, Circuit City : BB are on the same rail. It behooves Apple to get itself into other retail venues with a brighter future.

The connection with Ron Johnson is also somewhat vague considering he did his stint at Target, then Apple, and is now at JC Penny. Why such a lag if there was a direct correlation? You would think one of Johnson's first store-within-a-store concepts would have been Target versus 5+ years later.

AppleScruff1 said:

WalMart will be next. The dilution of the brand is in progress.

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I don't know that you could call it "dilution of the brand" as long as the product itself maintains its current high quality. Rather, I see broader exposure for a product line for which the brand is already in existence. If the Apple PCs can become more accessible and have real Apple representation on site, then I could see this as a pilot effort to encroach even more deeply into what has been predominantly Microsoft's market.

I know of one area that doesn't have an Apple store within 50 miles and the tiny mom-&-pop store that sold PCs was driven out of business by a number of big-box stores that invaded the area. That mom-&-pop sold Apple (authorized) as well as other PC products. Now, Windows practically owns the region simply because the people who might be willing to try a different brand/platform are afraid they won't get local support for their product. My father-in-Law and brother-in-Law both love my iMacs, but are afraid they'd have to drive an hour out of their way or more if something goes wrong; and at today's gas prices, that alone adds up to unnecessary expense.

This region, by the way, has no 3G capability from any carrier, either.

That's like erecting high rise luxury condos in the projects.

More often than not, these "Mini Apple Stores" inside Best Buys are poorly maintained and poorly staffed.

sparkhill said:

The store-within-a-store concept is just not the same experience as an Apple Store and diminishes the brand. Apple products sell for a premium partly because the entire ownership experience is great and it starts at the store.

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I agree completely. The Apple displays at BB are a brand-specific extension of the rest of the store, where you are completely ignored by kid-salesreps who don't know the slightest thing about that which they sell. Is this really copacetic with the experience/aesthetic Apple strives to create in their retail outlets?

Vulpinemac said:

Yes, and no. I remember the old CompUSA store near where I live and they had something like this, but as you may remember, CompUSA died as have many of the old established consumer electronics stores (Circuit City, anybody?). Best Buy's reputation isn't the best, but because it's practically the only game in town any more, it simply isn't going away--yet.

The advantage for Apple here is that they're not tapping a consumer electronics store, but rather putting the product into a much more open market, a 'general store' as it were. More people--people who aren't just looking for electronic devices--will see the display and the logo and many of these people may already have an iPod or iPhone. True, sales may be slow in a place like Target, since most customers there are looking for lower-priced items. On the other hand, the exposure may see more sales of Apple's lower priced PCs such as the basic MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac and iPads.

Personally, I think it's a good idea for those areas, as they say, can't support a full-on Apple Store. I know of one place in particular that would benefit from it.

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While we are listing stores that have passed, there was a store called Lechmere. Unlike most stores, like, OfficeMax, etc., Lechmere had two training sessions. One was in the spring for software, and the other was in the fall for the introduction of new computers, and hardware. During these training sessions we would meet company representatives and have actual training on how to use all the new products. Sad to say that this idea seems lost in other electronic stores, or general stores. And in these stores, the sales people could care less about Apple in general.

A lot of shops in the UK have these. The problem is, the staff are next to useless. They are not Apple staff, they are just standard store staff with an 'Apple Specialist' T'shirt on. Half the time they have no idea what they are talking about, let alone how to use a Mac.

One such example is PC World - a very, very poor retailer in the UK, comparable to Best Buy or the former CompUSA in the states. The staff are dumb and there for one thing: Sell the highest price PC to get the best commission.

PinkyMacGodess said:

I did get approached by one of their management bots once after getting into it with a 'salesperson' and a customer. The chick was apparently some kind of assistant to an assistant at the store and blew the whistle on me when I made her look like a total ass. I didn't get banned but I did get my statement in that she was totally wrong and that if they actually wanted to sell some Apple products and keep the Apple kiosk, they might want to get people a lot more acquainted with the Apple products so they don't end up essentially lying about them to customers. There was no defense if they truly do not work on commission... (Although I realize that they probably make more on each PC sold than a Mac, but still at some point I wonder why they wanted the kiosks in the first place.)

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Hmm, my experience is just the opposite (save for the misinformation), each time I've gone to Best Buy and ended up roaming around the PC area I tend to get approached and offered to looked at Macs. In fact most of the employees have told me I would get a better experience on a Mac. Of course I own one so I know this is true, but I've never been steered towards the PC area when looking at Macs.

There's no way in sam hill that BB makes more money in PC sales (outside of volume) than Macs. PC's are so heavily discounted that they most likely are below cost.

If you notice misinformation given by a salesperson you're suppose to go to a manager and discuss your concerns. It's inappropriate for you to jump in the middle of an employee talking to a customer and telling them that they are wrong. At the end of the day Best Buy, Apple and other companies are private businesses and they can refuse service to you. Customers have to act professionally as well, just sayin'.

xraytech said:

More often than not, these "Mini Apple Stores" inside Best Buys are poorly maintained and poorly staffed.

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I might agree, although I would also assert that they provide better exposure and more opportunity to increase awareness than if they didn't exist at all. Maintenence and poor staffing would still be present if the Apple products simply sat on a shelf in Best Buy.

Target is a definite step up from Best Buy.

ncaissie said:

I picked up 3 DSi's when I was in Florida for Christmas one year. They seem like a Walmart type of store to me. They sell everything. lol

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That's basically what Target is...an upper class version of Wal-Mart.

You guys, with your shinny status symbols, just got a whole lot less cool...

Personally, I could care less...my ipad, iphone and itouch are consumer electronic devices, not status symbols...they can sell them at McDonalds for all I care...

The only way I see this happening is if it's a smaller display like the iPads/iPods and nothing like what is in BestBuy (a mini-store). Target likes consistency just as much as Apple does and doesn't allow anything that isn't strictly controlled by them (Target, not Apple) and reflects their marketing.

mwulf67 said:

You guys, with your shinny status symbols, just got a whole lot less cool...

Personally, I could care less...my ipad, iphone and itouch are consumer electronic devices, not status symbols...they can sell them at McDonalds for all I care...

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Did you meant you couldn't care less?

sparkhill said:

The store-within-a-store concept is just not the same experience as an Apple Store and diminishes the brand. Apple products sell for a premium partly because the entire ownership experience is great and it starts at the store.

I get that everyone does not have a nearby Apple Store but I do not think this is the answer. Remember CompUSA? Think about Best Buy. The last time I was looking at something I planned to order from Amazon, I overheard a salesperson steering a customer away from the Mac store toward the PC store with blatant disinformation. Half the Mac's were off, the area was a bit cluttered, etc. I like Target, but without Apple employees full-time, the experience will suck.

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The whole price premium for Apple isn't what it used to be - which is why having the product at a Target, for example, will work. Yes, a high-end MBP will not be a good Target product, but a MBA will, as would an iMac 21", Apple TV, all i-devices and a selection of accessories.

Also, Apple isn't the off-brand that they used to be and more and more people know what products they offer and at least have a general sense of their benefits. The need to have Apple employees manning the stores is not critical - heck, a good percentage of Target's employees are prime Apple target demographic - and probably know more about Apple products already, even before Target and Apple put together training programs.

PinkyMacGodess said:

I don't think this is working well, or at least shouldn't be working well...

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Yet FY2012 Q1 is going to be an utter blowout, record profit quarter.

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We also have this for years in the Netherlands at the Mediamarkt stores. But the employees are from Apple, not from the store.

MacFreak2011 said:

That's hilarious, I'm actually banned from my local best buy because I overheard a sales person tell someone that the solid state drive on a macbook air is far less reliable than a conventional drive, and after so many reads/writes gives out, usually in the time period of a year. He was talking to a little old lady that knew nothing about computers and just wanted to check her email, and he was trying to force a 15" pro on her. I corrected him in front of a few people and told the lady what she should be looking at, which got the district manager involved and me banned for life.

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So I suppose getting banned for life from Best Buy is really no big deal. The local Best Buy here is located across the street from Target. I haven't been in a Best Buy store in at least 4 years and haven't bought anything there since I bought an on-sale subwoofer about 8 years ago. I think the sales force there are a bunch of ***** heads.

2 stores within a single city block

I live in Peoria, IL (360,000 metro population) where we did not have a freestanding Starbucks until approximately 6 years ago. Prior to a few freestanding store, we had a Starbucks located inside Barnes & Noble which was followed-up a few years later by a 2nd store about 500 feet away which is located inside Target.

As for an Apple Store, we do not have one and probably never will have one. However, there is an Apple "store within a store" inside Best Buy. If our Target store has its own "store withing a store" it will be about 1,000 feet away from Best Buy!

Crazy, but true.

I was in need of a second MM last week, and didn't have time to get to the Apple store here in Cardiff.

On the very off chance, I popped in to PC World, a store I normally avoid like the plauge...But I was astonished to find an entire section of the superstore dedicated to all things Apple, and I mean everything...Imacs mini's MBA's Pro's all there, all the international keyboards in a perspex case and.... An Apple representative right there selling everything.

He was Really busy and I didn't have time to discover what the deal was, I bought my MM and left. Maybe somebody in the UK can confirm if Apple is actually renting store space from them, but this was no "One Off" event.

The range they had was comprehensive and he was selling From the store, not just taking orders.

The PC World staff were doing virtually nothing, the focus was all on the really well laid out Apple section.

I was delighted...

Joos24 said:

There's no way in sam hill that BB makes more money in PC sales (outside of volume) than Macs. PC's are so heavily discounted that they most likely are below cost.

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The thing you may not realize is that Apple allows for a very minimal profit margin. I worked for my campus bookstore which was an authorized reseller, and barely any money was made from selling Macs. The money is made from 3rd party accessories that you bundle with the Macs/iPads. Also, Apple is good about reimbursing the resellers when they're stuck with previous generation technology that has to be sold at a discount, so no money is ever lost, but the gain is minimal.

codyc815 said:

The thing you may not realize is that Apple allows for a very minimal profit margin. I worked for my campus bookstore which was an authorized reseller, and barely any money was made from selling Macs. The money is made from 3rd party accessories that you bundle with the Macs/iPads. Also, Apple is good about reimbursing the resellers when they're stuck with previous generation technology that has to be sold at a discount, so no money is ever lost, but the gain is minimal.

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He's entirely correct though. Best Buy makes more money from Macs than they do from PCs, and most PCs are sold below cost, which, like you said, is why Best Buy pushes accessories and their Geek Squad services. The only PCs they actually make money on by themselves are the all-in-one desktops and Macs.

If y'all think the floor staff at Apple is any better or worse than the floor staff at any other retail outlet, you're silly. All of the complaints about the best buy and target staff you've laid out, I could say the same about Apple employees. And I've also had positive experiences with sales staff at all of those stores. You really think Apple gets its sales staff at some secret mega salesperson underground laboratory?

yg17 said:

That's basically what Target is...an upper class version of Wal-Mart.

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Exactly. Target competes with WalMart, not Best Buy. WalMart has remodeled many of their stores to be more like Target. The want to a bit more fancy displays in some departments than had been their norm in the past.

eye said:

If y'all think the floor staff at Apple is any better or worse than the floor staff at any other retail outlet, you're silly. All of the complaints about the best buy and target staff you've laid out, I could say the same about Apple employees. And I've also had positive experiences with sales staff at all of those stores. You really think Apple gets its sales staff at some secret mega salesperson underground laboratory?

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Actually you are very correct.

I have met very capable people at Best Buy and Target and, while Circuit City was still around, them too.

However!

I have met so many Bozos that I can't count on my fingers and toes and even using yours too.

I guess this world is really getting to be one where you have to be intelligent and able to decide for your self what you need, and be an informed shopper. (No wonder one political party seems to want to end all public education, eh?)

I long for the sales people who are more than meat puppets in a blue shirt. There are some there. I met a wonderful woman that worked the photo department who really knew her stuff. She quit...

But that is what you get with generalizations. One size does not fit all, however if it does a large enough number than it's valid.

And sure, I've had issues with Apple Store people too. I had one berate me for hooking my Mac Mini to my stereo 'wrong'. He kept at the 'optical' so much it sounded like a religious chant, that totally drowned out my declaration that there was no 'optical' input to use. I was, as I saw it, thrown to the curb and he was off to bully more unlucky customers.

But that's life I guess.

I'm sure that when I worked at Circuit City years ago, many customers didn't like me either. (I still have the Apple logo inserts from the counters and backdrops from the displays when Apple yanked the line from them)

But still, back to the topic at hand.

The Apple Store experience should have told Apple management that there is a draw for stores devoted purely to Apple products. To stick 'kiosks' in other people's stores somehow cheapens that... I can't get my brain around the idea how throwing your name/brand and products in someone elses property somehow builds (or maintains) your brand. I just don't get it...

I think that Apple will pay dearly for this decision and I can't think how it could be otherwise... I think that they will come to the realization that this was a mistake, in the US at least... There is too much of a 'PC mode' brand of thinking ingrained in people, unfortunately, for this to be a long term help for Apple.

If they are hurting for money, they could try coming out with a cheaper line of hardware to tailor to the 'Best Buy trogs', but then the death of Apple can't be that far off after that... People have to be given dinner and a movie in order to want to pay that much for computers and accessories... They ain't getting squat at BB... And Apple should definitely stay the hell away from Wal-Mart. They will end up wagging Apple like they have done far too many other corporations that have stepped into their spider webs...