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Old Jan 13, 2012, 11:54 AM   #76
Michaelgtrusa
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Safety concerns really?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:00 PM   #77
Merlin9
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Originally Posted by CaptainCannabis View Post
China, a country where people hate America, yet, they love their products... Is it envy? Nonetheless, all humanity is this ****ed up, not just China - just look how crazy us westerners go about the launch of a new iPhone or iPad too...
Why do you think people in China hate America???

That's nonsense. People in general are the same. Only politics/religion divide them.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:03 PM   #78
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China, a country where people hate America...
1.3B Chinese hate America?... not too much of blanket statement here.

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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:07 PM   #79
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Probably a good thing Siri isn't enabled on the Chinese iPhones. Can you imagine some poor sod walking out of the store with his shiny new 4S into that loud, frenzied crowd:

"Beep!.... Sorry, but I don't understand the phrase 'Die, scalper, die! Gimme that iPhone!'"
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:28 PM   #80
Westyfield2
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Originally Posted by mw360 View Post
Sorry, but you are being racist. If by 'here' you mean the UK, you are somehow forgetting the murder of some kid in tense Boxing Day sales on Oxford Street. Or did that not count, because the kid didn't meet your definition of an Englishman either.
It did not count because he wasn't an ordinary Englishman out shopping. Whilst of-course any loss of life is tragic, I should point out that he was an Englishman from the notorious London street gang ABM who went into London on Boxing day with other gang members with the intention of using the sales crush as cover for shoplifting. The fight was then because they ran into rival gang 031 Bloods.

I'm not gonna deny that Londonís senseless gang violence happens, but it's not typical Britain.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:35 PM   #81
fastlanephil
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We have a young friend from China. She probably thought that everybody lived like the people in the movies and TV shows.

Well, she has found out different and now dreams of a big house and nice things. She does have an iPhone but no drivers license or job skills, a baby to raise and a husband with a very modest income. With a lot of hard work she might do fine.

No doubt materialism is encouraged in China. It replaces personal freedom.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:38 PM   #82
manu chao
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
This is Asia, people don't queue up here.
And not only here but in many poor Countries people don't queue.
I am used to it now but it takes time to get used to the unorderly crowds.
One could argue that people who can afford an iPhone are not poor people anymore. If you look at Hong Kong, there people do queue up at iPhone launches. But of course Hong Kong is richer than Beijing (at least in terms of median income), has been 'rich' for quite some time and has been under British/European influence for multiple generations.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:43 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by TWSS37 View Post
I agree. It sickens me that we continually support companies like Apple than have no regard for human life. As far as I'm concerned, every time we buy from Apple it is using blood money.

Sent from my iPhone
Then I'm not sure where you'll get your tech from.

Foxconn's major customers:

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Amazon (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Logitech (Switzerland)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Philips (Netherlands)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)


And that's just Foxconn. Then there all the other companies in China and Taiwan that do the same thing. One can only imagine who else their customers are.

If you're typing your self-righteous posts from a modern computer or portable device, you're involved in that whole "blood money" thing already. You're as guilty as I am.

Calling for a halt to production and refusing to buy tech from Apple or anyone else is a ridiculous solution to a problem that can only be resolved by the governments of the countries in which these production plants are located.

Cheap labour is a reality, especially given that the United States is no longer globally competitive in manufacturing. It's simply not economical. When someone else in some other country can do it cheaper while maintaining a reasonable level of Quality Control, corporations will naturally shift production there.

If you'd like to move production back to the US or into your backyard (that has apparently been blessed by a saint), then be prepared to pay more for the same products. Unionization and the lifestyle expectations of the average American worker have seen to that. Of course, if you like your internet, your apps, your advanced mobile device, and the luxury of posting your remarks from them, then you'll find yourself in a bit of a pickle. What you're actually proposing is to not buy "made in China" at all. Good luck with that.

So you see, it isn't as simple as refusing to buy from company A or B as a symbol of protest, unless of course, you're ready to make some serious sacrifices in your level of technological comfort. Last I checked, the internet doesn't run on a piece of wood.

So I assume we won't be seeing you around here for a while. Amirite?

Last edited by *LTD*; Jan 13, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:45 PM   #84
thenerdal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
Then I'm not sure where you'll get your tech from.

Foxconn's major customers:

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Amazon (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Logitech (Switzerland)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Philips (Netherlands)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)


And that's just Foxconn. Then there all the other companies in China that do the same thing. One can only imagine who else their customers are.

If you're typing your self-righteous posts from a modern computer or portable device, you're involved in that whole "blood money" thing already.

Calling for a halt to production and refusing to buy tech from Apple or anyone else is a ridiculous solution to a problem that can only be resolved by the governments of the countries in with these production plants are located.

Cheap labour is a reality, especially given that the United States is no longer globally competitive in manufacturing. It's simply not economical. When someone else in some other country can do it cheaper while maintaing a reasonable level of Quality Control, corporations will naturally shift production there.

If you'd like to move production back to the US or into your backyard (that has apparently been blessed by a saint), then be prepared to pay more for the same products. Unionization and the lifestyle expectations of the average American worker have seen to that. Of course, if you like your internet, your apps, your advanced mobile device, and the luxury of posting your remarks from then, then you'll find yourself in a bit of a pickle. What you're actually proposing is to not buy "made in China" at all. Good luck with that.

So you see, it isn't as simple as refusing to buy from company A or B as a symbol of protest, unless of course, you're ready to make some serious sacrifices in your level of technological comfort.

So I assume we won't be seeing you around here for a while. Amirite?
LTD is right for once lol.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:47 PM   #85
HelveticaRoman
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Originally Posted by mw360 View Post
Or halve the size of the crowd, the waiting times and safety concerns by offering two per customer. That's not rocket science either.
On that logic, 100 per customer should solve the crowd problem nicely.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:49 PM   #86
britboyj
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Yet Apple Retail did nothing to stop the obscene numbers of scalpers and resellers in the US.

Seriously? Your blind, wheelchair-bound grandmother needs two iPad 64 AT&T? Oh, we only have Verizon. What's that, you need AT&T? Why? Ohhh you need something with a SIM card because you want to send it to China/India/the Middle East/Russia.

I had that conversation DAILY during the iPad 2 launch. We KNEW they were resellers and weren't even allowed to say anything.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:50 PM   #87
mw360
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Originally Posted by Westyfield2 View Post
It did not count because he wasn't an ordinary Englishman out shopping. Whilst of-course any loss of life is tragic, I should point out that he was an Englishman from the notorious London street gang ABM who went into London on Boxing day with other gang members with the intention of using the sales crush as cover for shoplifting. The fight was then because they ran into rival gang 031 Bloods.

I'm not gonna deny that Londonís senseless gang violence happens, but it's not typical Britain.
Well there you have it. See how easily you resist allowing a few individuals to define your culture, but how easily you used one pretty harmless incident and a couple of photos to define somebody else's?

To be fair you didn't say anything offensive to me, but you did begin with 'I'm not racist' which just begs for an argument.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:50 PM   #88
phillipduran
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Originally Posted by TWSS37 View Post
I agree. It sickens me that we continually support companies like Apple than have no regard for human life. As far as I'm concerned, every time we buy from Apple it is using blood money.

Sent from my iPhone
HAHAHAHA! Sent from my iPhone and then followed up by your laundry list of Apple products.

Oh the live lives that have been sacrificed to feed your iHunger!
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:52 PM   #89
arkitect
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Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
No doubt materialism is encouraged in China. It replaces personal freedom.
Not just in China.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:58 PM   #90
mw360
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Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
We have a young friend from China. She probably thought that everybody lived like the people in the movies and TV shows.

Well, she has found out different and now dreams of a big house and nice things. She does have an iPhone but no drivers license or job skills, a baby to raise and a husband with a very modest income. With a lot of hard work she might do fine.

No doubt materialism is encouraged in China. It replaces personal freedom.
So you know someone with an iPhone and a small house. Didn't get much else from your story.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:05 PM   #91
vrDrew
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Originally Posted by *LTD* View Post
Calling for a halt to production and refusing to buy tech from Apple or anyone else is a ridiculous solution to a problem that can only be resolved by the governments of the countries in which these production plants are located.
Amen.

Nobody wants to see Foxconn workers (or anyone else) committing suicide or living in inhumane conditions. But the reality is that it is up to Chinese workers themselves to change that situation, just as a century or so before workers in the US, Britain and elsewhere demanded - and won - the sort of workplace protections that built our modern society. We in the US or Europe have no obligation, and most certainly no right, to determine how China and Chinese workers do that. Ultimately, they have to find a Chinese solution to what is, in essence, a Chinese problem.

China is not a country rich in natural resources. What it DOES have is the labor of its people and the entrepreneurial skill of its businesspeople. Chinese workers who toil at Foxconn and the other factories of Shenzhen and a thousand other towns do so to earn money that lets their families take the first steps up the ladder towards a better life. Its not easy. But it doesn't have to be forever.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:09 PM   #92
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I have Chinese friends, and they've explained to me that this is simply how the Chinese behave. It's a cultural thing. They never line-up, they just crowd around, and push, and shove and try to get ahead of everyone else. Of course it leads to riot-like conditions for a very desirable product.

It's very obvious here in Toronto when lining up for the streetcar. Everyone forms a nice line, then a bunch of people from China (not the Chinese actually born here) simply ignore the line, rush to the front of it when the doors open, and shove their way inside. Everyone in line rolls their eyes, and keeps quiet because they don't want to appear racist.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:17 PM   #93
DrDomVonDoom
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Originally Posted by Themaeds View Post
Seriously dude...this is what the #Occupy movement was all about. Losing one life is one life too many.
Then we should attempt to do NOTHING in life.

People die, it sucks but thats life. Any endevour worth doing is going to have some risk associated with it.

I'm a welder, far more risk involved in my line of work, then lets say some Foxconn worker. I work with thousands of pounds of steel dangling above me all day, working with flammable gasses that could blow a building up, tools that can maim, rip off limbs, and fingers, working hundreds of feet in the air.
Not that I am tooting my own horn, but I don't have the comfort of having a cushy desk job.

Thats what a lot of people fail to understand these days, where the most risk they put themselves at is a paper cut.

if people never risked life and limb, im sure we wouldnt have the wonders we do today. We would all still be hiding in caves.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:38 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by TWSS37 View Post
We should ship out the occupy protesters to work in the deplorable conditions in China to see if they still have something to complain about. lololololol
Ah, yes. What a great way to keep people from fighting for anything they deserve--like fair wages or getting corporations to pay their share of taxes. I mean, why should we fight for things to be fair? If we're given rotten food to eat, forced to feed it to our kids, why should we complain? After all, people are starving in Africa.

Dude, if you really find what you said to be hilariously funny, then you are someone I want to know. Because you are someone I can rip off with impunity. I can cheat you, abuse you, do every unfair and criminal thing to you...you will laughingly say, "Well, at least I have it better than...." What a wonderfully stupid sheep you are. It's a good thing you weren't around in 1776--you'd have said, "Why are these rebels protesting our taxes? Parliament should ship them to India and see if they'd still have something to complain about. lololol!"

You're either in for a rude awakening, or in for being ripped off for the rest of your life

----------

Everyone does understand--and did read in the article--that iPhones could be ordered on-line in China, right? People didn't have to wait to buy one in a store.

The problem here was scalpers--they were organized and promised payment to get phones, and when they didn't they caused the riot. Any customer really wanting a phone with a real phone plan could buy one.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:40 PM   #95
nylonsteel
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re original article

makes me glad i order most of my stuff online
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:43 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by lunarworks View Post
I have Chinese friends, and they've explained to me that this is simply how the Chinese behave. It's a cultural thing. They never line-up, they just crowd around, and push, and shove and try to get ahead of everyone else. Of course it leads to riot-like conditions for a very desirable product.

It's very obvious here in Toronto when lining up for the streetcar. Everyone forms a nice line, then a bunch of people from China (not the Chinese actually born here) simply ignore the line, rush to the front of it when the doors open, and shove their way inside. Everyone in line rolls their eyes, and keeps quiet because they don't want to appear racist.
Well you should be able to at least tell them to get in line. Race shouldn't have anything to do with telling someone to get in line.



Anyways, I knew this crowding was going to happen. I lived in Sanlitun for a couple of months and everyday I passed that Apple store to work and it was always jammed pack. I tried to go in a few times, but there is nothing you can do in there, no one will let you look at devices! Perhaps I was too polite, as everyone just pushed there way in front of me.

From what I noticed, the Chinese LOVE American culture. All they know is that the phone was a big deal in America (media), and they have to have it, mostly the Beijingers anyways. People don't realize that a big majority of China is still rural in the northwest and western area and is lucky to have a somewhat consistant flow of electricity and running water.

btw, they also LOVE americans! haha eveytime I went out with my American friends, or even anyone who was Caucasian, they would get stopped constantly to have their picture taken like they were Justin Timberlake - really funny when they're drunk too!

What I'm trying to say is, don't generalize all Chinese people and say they hate Americans. Thats small-minded. Just like with any other country, its the politicians and top-dog companies that hate each other.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:44 PM   #97
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It amazes me we are the most intelligent species on earth, paradoxically, the most primitive as well.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:51 PM   #98
Mr. Gates
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SIRI doesn't understand Chines.

What a bunch of sheep.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:58 PM   #99
singe
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Englishman & Chinamen

@Westyfield2: Your opening statement "I'm not a racist person, but..." betrays self admission of being both ignorant and provocative (trolling to you).

Direct comparing "orderly" queuing in U.K (population est 62.2m) and China (population est 1.3bn) is a bit naive not even taking into account the different social, cultural and wealth factors.

"It's like Where's Waldo?, but instead is spot the Englishman!"
Maybe he is the one claiming disability because he is too proud to graft or save. Englishman across the U.K/England this summer showed a interesting obedient example of western consumerism! And you should be proud the makeup of rioters was so ethnically and socially diverse.

Stop being sensational Daily Mail reader, and try broadening your knowledge and traveling beyond the borders of somerset more often.

No nation or society is completely perfect.



P.S -
learn to love the chinese tourist/student shoppers with wealth because they will be the ones lifting the U.K / western economies out of austerity any time soon, who do you think lends the western world money anymore aswell.

fyi: I travel to China 4-5 times a year
and live East London (not your typical Englsihman or cockney guvner).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westyfield2 View Post
I'm not a racist person, but... what is it with the Chinese and taking shopping too seriously .

When the iPhone 4S was released here, yes it was popular, but there was an orderly queue. People when they got to the front of the queue went in and bought themselves an iPhone. There was no "scalping". There was no pushing and shoving. People just, well, bought the phone.


And at the Christmas sales this year in London:
Image
Image
(Selfridges)


It's like Where's Waldo?, but instead is spot the Englishman!
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 02:14 PM   #100
rcappo
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Is China Communist anymore? The government should be building more factories and producing an iPhone for every citizen.

It looks more like unregulated capitalism with the scalpers buying a bunch and then jacking up the prices to meet the demand of people with money.
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