OS X: How is Mafia II on the Mac?

[BRLawyer]

Following a number of very positive reviews, I am thinking about buying Mafia II for the Mac as released by Feral...does anyone have a more informed opinion on the game and its Mac-native performance?

AGAIN: I am NOT interested in PC versions of this game, Boot Camp or the like.

[edddeduck]

Your Mac will be fine We do have a patch planned to bump up the performance on all machines even more but on your machine it should be smooth on high settings already.

I work for Feral as my sig shows but I have played the game to completion on a similar iMac to the one in your signature on high settings.

Edwin

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Your Mac will be fine We do have a patch planned to bump up the performance on all machines even more but on your machine it should be smooth on high settings already.

I work for Feral as my sig shows but I have played the game to completion on a similar iMac to the one in your signature on high settings.

Edwin

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Edwin; so you mean "high" as "maximum" settings for the game on my iMac, including native resolution (2560x1440)?

And when can we expect release of such a patch?

[h4ck]

wow, i should get this. i loved Mafia on my PC, what seems like a zillion years ago.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Edwin; so you mean "high" as "maximum" settings for the game on my iMac, including native resolution (2560x1440)?

And when can we expect release of such a patch?

For your Mac the default performance settings are around 1600x1200 to get high frame rates for all areas of the map in all weather conditions (with every other setting turned on full).

The patch mentioned is in development now and we are working with both AMD and Nvidia to get as big a boost as possible to the frame rate on all cards. When we port a game we pride ourselves on the quality and polish of the Mac version, if once released we find something we can do to make it even better we will take the time to release an update to do that. I don't have an exact date but sometime in the next 6 weeks is my very unofficial guess.

Edwin

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

For your Mac the default performance settings are around 1600x1200 to get high frame rates for all areas of the map in all weather conditions (with every other setting turned on full).

The patch mentioned is in development now and we are working with both AMD and Nvidia to get as big a boost as possible to the frame rate on all cards. When we port a game we pride ourselves on the quality and polish of the Mac version, if once released we find something we can do to make it even better we will take the time to release an update to do that. I don't have an exact date but sometime in the next 6 weeks is my very unofficial guess.

Edwin

Well, I can only wish you Feral guys good luck and congrats for the effort in bringing more titles to the Mac platform, so that we don't have to resort to RIDICULOUS workarounds such as Windows virtualization or Boot Camp.

Besides, I have to admit that most if not all Feral releases I have bought perform really well and are devoid of major bugs or incompatibilities - hopefully other Mac game producers will strive in that direction as well..!

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

have to admit that most if not all Feral releases I have bought perform really well and are devoid of major bugs or incompatibilities - hopefully other Mac game producers will strive in that direction as well..!

Thanks

If you ever do find a problem (unlikely I know )remember to drop us an email the more users who contact us the easier it is for us to track down the issue and patch it!

Edwin

[barredfreak]

Edwin, do you think my MacBook Pro can run Mafia II? Check out my specifications and tell me what you think.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by barredfreak

Edwin, do you think my MacBook Pro can run Mafia II? Check out my specifications and tell me what you think.

Attachment 319388

Your graphics card is the main issue with your Mac when it comes to games as it is a shared RAM card meaning it has to use the slower system RAM instead of dedicated graphics RAM.

It will play the game (fully supported) but you will have to have all the shiny effects turned down low. The 8GB of RAM will help a lot with this game especially as you have a shared RAM card so that 8GB has to cover your OS and your graphics card.

The high loading performance test built into Mafia 2 (in the Extras menu) gives an average of 20.5 fps on a similar Mac to yours, I used a Mac mini which is a little slower. That should give you a general frame rate while playing of 20 to 30 fps as the performance test is usually a little more complex than the game.

That figure is based on everything off and playing at 800x500 which is the lowest resolution, the performance patch should improve matters a fair bit but your card was never designed for games so you won't ever get max settings. Mafia 2 at 800x500 looks OK on a smaller screen but at this resolution you will have a few jaggies.

The patch (when it arrives) will improve performance on all machines including machines like yours with an HD3000 card. I have no clue by how much but once it is complete it will try and remember to update the thread.

Cheers,

Edwin

[BRLawyer]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Thanks

If you ever do find a problem (unlikely I know )remember to drop us an email the more users who contact us the easier it is for us to track down the issue and patch it!

Edwin

Ok, here is a quick one for you: PLEASE stop asking for the insertion of the DVD in the case of Sid Meier's Pirates! I love playing that game and bought it almost the moment it was released...however, I barely try it out nowadays because of that ridiculous obligation to insert the DVD (which is stowed away somewhere in a shelf).

[barredfreak]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Your graphics card is the main issue with your Mac when it comes to games as it is a shared RAM card meaning it has to use the slower system RAM instead of dedicated graphics RAM.

It will play the game (fully supported) but you will have to have all the shiny effects turned down low. The 8GB of RAM will help a lot with this game especially as you have a shared RAM card so that 8GB has to cover your OS and your graphics card.

The high loading performance test built into Mafia 2 (in the Extras menu) gives an average of 20.5 fps on a similar Mac to yours, I used a Mac mini which is a little slower. That should give you a general frame rate while playing of 20 to 30 fps as the performance test is usually a little more complex than the game.

That figure is based on everything off and playing at 800x500 which is the lowest resolution, the performance patch should improve matters a fair bit but your card was never designed for games so you won't ever get max settings. Mafia 2 at 800x500 looks OK on a smaller screen but at this resolution you will have a few jaggies.

The patch (when it arrives) will improve performance on all machines including machines like yours with an HD3000 card. I have no clue by how much but once it is complete it will try and remember to update the thread.

Cheers,

Edwin

Alright. Thanks a bunch! I will wait for the patch and try out the game on my MacBook.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by BRLawyer

Ok, here is a quick one for you: PLEASE stop asking for the insertion of the DVD in the case of Sid Meier's Pirates! I love playing that game and bought it almost the moment it was released...however, I barely try it out nowadays because of that ridiculous obligation to insert the DVD (which is stowed away somewhere in a shelf).

Already did that about 6 to 12 months ago for Pirates!

Just over a year ago we created our own online serial system to replace the requirement to have the DVD in the drive, now users of newer Feral games can opt to use "DVD only" authentication (no internet used ever) or activate their game online (one time activation).

We then started patching the older games to the newer system. For users who bought Pirates! before the serial system you need to contact support and we can give you the instructions on how to trade in your DVD for an online activation version instead. As you have an older version I would contact support for the next step.

Edwin

[jeremyasto]

I have played mafia II on my macbook

[andydckent]

Hi Edwin,

Mafia II has been playing well on my 2011 i7 with 8gb ram and 2gig graphics on to chapter 14 or so. Last couple of days it keeps crashing while I am out driving on missions. Any suggestions? Will see if I can PM you the code, OK its too big, will email support.

Thanks!

Andy

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by andydckent

Hi Edwin,

Mafia II has been playing well on my 2011 i7 with 8gb ram and 2gig graphics on to chapter 14 or so. Last couple of days it keeps crashing while I am out driving on missions. Any suggestions? Will see if I can PM you the code, OK its too big, will email support.

Thanks!

Andy

Best thing I can do to help is ask you make a support report (using the support tab) and email our support team. You can say you spoke to me and we can look into it in more detail.

Also in the email please include any other information like if it is always crashing at the same place in the mission, a certain area, vehicle anything that seems to be related. Often this can help us in tracking the issue down.

We have an identical machine to yours in the office and Mafia 2 has been completed on that machine quite a few times so I am confident we will be able to resolve your particular issue once we work out what is happening on your machine.

Cheers,

Edwin

[s.horsfield]

Why is that on my 9400m, 8GB ram, 2GHZ Core 2 Duo early 2009 Mac Mini. The game runs fine on Windows 7 (30fps-ish) and on Mac OS X it's completely un-playable . Probably about 1/4 fps but I have no tests for that. I've played a bunch of Feral games and the differences between Mac and Windows have been next to nothing. How much optimization did you do for Mafia 2? Did you convert it to OpenGL? Did you just use Wine or something slightly better? I'm not trying to be a dick, im genuinely interested about how this whole thing works because I pretty much hate Direct X and the how monolpoly Microsoft has over something that's not really any better and want more mac games. Plus being a beginner developer, i'm all the more curious. How do you convert games to Mac? This is pure interest i'd never have the ability to do what you do to your standard (aside from whatever issues im having with Mafia 2). Batman: Arkham Aslyum ran amazing (well no better than on windows) on Mac OS X and I loved the game. I love Feral (again aside from this whole Mafia 2 thing) and don't want to seem like a hater

[john0]

It will be a great experience to play mafia 2 on mac. is it possible ?
how is the response ?

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

Why is that on my 9400m, 8GB ram, 2GHZ Core 2 Duo early 2009 Mac Mini. The game runs fine on Windows 7 (30fps-ish) and on Mac OS X it's completely un-playable . Probably about 1/4 fps but I have no tests for that.

Firstly 9400M is not a supported card for Mafia 2 on the Mac.

The following graphics cards are not supported: ATI X1xxx series, AMD HD2400, NVIDIA 9400, NVIDIA 7xxx series and Intel GMA series. The following cards require you to have 4GB of System RAM: NVIDIA 320M, Intel HD 3000.

The reason the 9400M is not supported is we cannot get the card to give the same performance as is provides on the PC due to us hitting a few bottlenecks in the differences between Mac and PC drivers and OS design. That said we are not giving up as you can see below.

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

I've played a bunch of Feral games and the differences between Mac and Windows have been next to nothing. How much optimization did you do for Mafia 2? Did you convert it to OpenGL? Did you just use Wine or something slightly better? I'm not trying to be a dick, im genuinely interested about how this whole thing works because I pretty much hate Direct X and the how monolpoly Microsoft has over something that's not really any better and want more mac games. Plus being a beginner developer, i'm all the more curious. How do you convert games to Mac? This is pure interest i'd never have the ability to do what you do to your standard (aside from whatever issues im having with Mafia 2). Batman: Arkham Aslyum ran amazing (well no better than on windows) on Mac OS X and I loved the game. I love Feral (again aside from this whole Mafia 2 thing) and don't want to seem like a hater

Mafia 2 uses certain calls that have a performance impact on the Mac drivers, other games use the card differently and as such perform like the PC. We always work with AMD, NVidia, Apple on gaming performance to get the Mac versions as fast as possible. Since the game was released looking at things we can do to speed up the game on all Macs for the first patch by avoiding the bottlenecks on certain Mac setups and getting the most out of the hardware.

That said the 9400M card is woefully underpowered for gaming and was designed for none gaming laptops and work machines. As such you will never get super speed out of that card on Windows or Mac.

Edwin

[s.horsfield]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Firstly 9400M is not a supported card for Mafia 2 on the Mac.

Mafia 2 uses certain calls that have a performance impact on the Mac drivers, other games use the card differently and as such perform like the PC. We always work with AMD, NVidia, Apple on gaming performance to get the Mac versions as fast as possible. Since the game was released looking at things we can do to speed up the game on all Macs for the first patch by avoiding the bottlenecks on certain Mac setups and getting the most out of the hardware.

That said the 9400M card is woefully underpowered for gaming and was designed for none gaming laptops and work machines. As such you will never get super speed out of that card on Windows or Mac.

Edwin

One quick thing: Is Arkham City coming to Mac OS X anytime in future?

Interesting I never realized it was that difficult (hats off to the team at Feral!), there are some companies i've come across that will port games across at what they claim to be "native" speeds, then I open up the game and found i've paid 20% or more for a game they just put through Wine. I could have done that at home! I don't really have an issue with this for basic 2D games but games like Mafia 2, probably wouldn't even work through wine so thanks! You guys really seem to take pride (and loads of effort) with all the work you guys do! I've only ever made apps/games for iOS/Android so I obviously never have those issues or at least to that extent. It's frustrating how stupid some developers are only writing games for Direct X. Open GL is about the same peformance wise and runs on pretty much everything. Aside from Direct X to Open GL (and all the friggin around with graphics cards, drivers etc) is there anything else you need to do? All the engines and base code are still the same cross platform? That's been the case for me porting iOS apps to Android. And yes I am aware the 9400M sucks. The computer was half price new and aside from the terrible graphics card it runs fine ETA on the patch? I'll be upgrading sometime this year to a 2012 Base end iMac, assuming the graphics card is about the same as this years the game will run fine? How about the Intel HD 3000 does it get 30fps on any settings? Would the Intel HD 4000 improve performance much? I just wanna get the game playable on something, not highest settings or anything. Also if you work with Apple please try and twist there arm to support gaming (better cards, somehow Direct X support SOMETHING) Sorry for all the rambling

Thanks so much - Simon

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

One quick thing: Is Arkham City coming to Mac OS X anytime in future?

Sorry no clues...

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

It's frustrating how stupid some developers are only writing games for Direct X. Open GL is about the same peformance wise and runs on pretty much everything.

If only it was that simple. None of the consoles use GL in reality. Yes I know the PS3 supports OpenGL but there is a chasm between supporting OpenGL and having the features and performance required to use it in a game. I don't know of any PS3 games that use GL.

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

Aside from Direct X to Open GL (and all the friggin around with graphics cards, drivers etc) is there anything else you need to do?

Not that much but as most of a game's point is drawing things that is already a fair bit of work.

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

All the engines and base code are still the same cross platform?

Getting code to compile on a different compiler on a different platform is tricky, getting rid of compiler errors making sure all the base classes are hooked up to Mac versions. Remember everything like file access through to USB access need fixing to work on the Mac as all these APIs are different.

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

How about the Intel HD 3000 does it get 30fps on any settings? Would the Intel HD 4000 improve performance much? I just wanna get the game playable on something, not highest settings or anything.

The HD3000 is designed to run Excel, iTunes and playback videos it is not really designed for gaming. In fact on the PC no games (complex 3D) support the card and it is pot luck if any will work. As lots of lower end Mac's have the HD3000 we do our best to get games running on the HD3000 but for anything new you will be playing on the lower to lowest end of the graphics settings.

However if we say it is supported we mean you should be able to play the game at a reasonable frame rate all the way through. We judge it by looking at how it plays pretending we are a customer buying the game. If it is not fast enough we either optimise some more or not support the card.

Originally Posted by mrsimonwins

Also if you work with Apple please try and twist there arm to support gaming (better cards, somehow Direct X support SOMETHING) Sorry for all the rambling

Thanks so much - Simon

Supporting DirectX will not ever happen it is not a matter of money or anything else it is just like putting petrol in a diesel engine no matter the mechanic it will never work.

If you look at OpenGL a few years ago and now you should see that it is constantly improving all the time but being who we are it's never fast enough there is always something else you can do faster or better.

Edwin

[s.horsfield]

If only it was that simple. None of the consoles use GL in reality. Yes I know the PS3 supports OpenGL but there is a chasm between supporting OpenGL and having the features and performance required to use it in a game. I don't know of any PS3 games that use GL.

It would be much better everyone having one standard, although I guess no one can corner the market that way. Still it would make things a lot better in the gaming world

Not that much but as most of a game's point is drawing things that is already a fair bit of work.

Yeah I just imagine, I love coding but i'd never have the skill of your team. I'm so glad you guys do what you do!

Getting code to compile on a different compiler on a different platform is tricky, getting rid of compiler errors making sure all the base classes are hooked up to Mac versions. Remember everything like file access through to USB access need fixing to work on the Mac as all these APIs are different.

That part I was assuming would be easy. Although I don't know enough about high end 3D games, ahhh sounds awful, i'd happily pay double for a "Feral quality" mac game, with all you do.

The HD3000 is designed to run Excel, iTunes and playback videos it is not really designed for gaming. In fact on the PC no games (complex 3D) support the card and it is pot luck if any will work. As lots of lower end Mac's have the HD3000 we do our best to get games running on the HD3000 but for anything new you will be playing on the lower to lowest end of the graphics settings.

However if we say it is supported we mean you should be able to play the game at a reasonable frame rate all the way through. We judge it by looking at how it plays pretending we are a customer buying the game. If it is not fast enough we either optimise some more or not support the card.

If only Apple would put better graphics cards in there machines. Even for the average user they could use a little more "omph" in the graphics department. With pretty much every other component Apple's done fine, I guess gaming really isn't on Apple's radar. But it should be! That's my single issue with OS X. Although I guess your stopping that, although no one could ever do it for every game and no big developers are going to delay releases so the Mac version come out same day. Oh well, Mac gamers are lucky we have you!

Supporting DirectX will not ever happen it is not a matter of money or anything else it is just like putting petrol in a diesel engine no matter the mechanic it will never work.

If you look at OpenGL a few years ago and now you should see that it is constantly improving all the time but being who we are it's never fast enough there is always something else you can do faster or better.

From what i'd read Direct X was very similar to Open GL in terms of code etc. Just "wrapped" differently. Although that's probably not true.

I read a story about 2 years ago about Apple and gaming. I haven't been able to find it since. To sum it up, Apple would go to developers and say "we wanna support games, can you make them mac friendly, how can we help" etc. Or the developers or whoever would go to Apple can't remember which. The developers would start working with Apple and then Apple would just stop helping, returning calls or whatever. Somehow the plans would fall through on Apple's end. Apparently this repeated itself every few years just with different Apple suits. It may have been Steam who approached Apple? I don't remember but it was something like that and I thought it was interesting. Sorry that story was kinda sketchy that's what I remember of it, still I thought it was worth sharing

Thanks a bunch!

Simon

[andydckent]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Best thing I can do to help is ask you make a support report (using the support tab) and email our support team. You can say you spoke to me and we can look into it in more detail.

Also in the email please include any other information like if it is always crashing at the same place in the mission, a certain area, vehicle anything that seems to be related. Often this can help us in tracking the issue down.

We have an identical machine to yours in the office and Mafia 2 has been completed on that machine quite a few times so I am confident we will be able to resolve your particular issue once we work out what is happening on your machine.

Cheers,

Edwin

Hi Edwin,

Have been in touch with your support and they suggest it may be because I am running at native resolution. Can I ask what setting you use on your identical machine?

I'd been having no issues until around chapter 14 and the test gives me a good 35fps at the settings I have so would be a bit surprised if reducing from native would stop the crash. Maybe I am not understanding properly how the process works though.

Thanks!

Andy

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by andydckent

Hi Edwin,

Have been in touch with your support and they suggest it may be because I am running at native resolution. Can I ask what setting you use on your identical machine?

I'd been having no issues until around chapter 14 and the test gives me a good 35fps at the settings I have so would be a bit surprised if reducing from native would stop the crash. Maybe I am not understanding properly how the process works though.

Thanks!

Andy

1600x900 was what I completed the game on the last time I played through. Please let support know if you still get issues (also send them a support report with the crashes).

As we have a patch planned any info you have can help.

Edwin

p.s. Feel free to mention you spoke to me in the forums so we can link the issues.

[Justass]

Hei. I just recently bought mafia 2 to my 2011 mbp 13" 2.4ghz core 2 duo, 4gb ram that runs Nvidia 320M with 256mb and it barely works on low parameters. I keep the resolution 1280 x 800 because others looks just terrible on my MBP, but the game just lags and works very sloooow. I consider these very decent parameters for such a game, how come is working so badly? The optimization of the game isn't so well perhaps? Should I wait for the patch and will it be able to help increasing the performance? I don't have anything to measure the fps, but it's not very high obviously.

[wywern209]

Originally Posted by Justass

Hei. I just recently bought mafia 2 to my 2011 mbp 13" 2.4ghz core 2 duo, 4gb ram that runs Nvidia 320M with 256mb and it barely works on low parameters. I keep the resolution 1280 x 800 because others looks just terrible on my MBP, but the game just lags and works very sloooow. I consider these very decent parameters for such a game, how come is working so badly? The optimization of the game isn't so well perhaps? Should I wait for the patch and will it be able to help increasing the performance? I don't have anything to measure the fps, but it's not very high obviously.

no. the 320m is just a terrible card for gaming.