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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:48 AM   #26
jameskatt
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This won't change anything

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Originally Posted by Sakic10 View Post
get ready to pay $80-$100 for any book that is really needed

mine are all $130-$150 and the ebooks cost $80-$100

not sure why this will change that
This won't change much of anything.

You won't get mass purchases of textbooks for $15.

The average NY Times Bestseller sells less than 30,000 copies.

The average textbook sells less than 1500 copies. This means the average textbook author makes $12,000 on sales. The problem is that to write the textbook, the author needs to work nearly 24-hours a day for at least 5 years. That is very little money for that much work.

The big publishers realize that they will end up cutting their throats if they sell big-time textbooks for $15. They stand to lose a lot of money.

Sure, there will be an initial flurry for the novelty of it all. But after a few weeks, the novelty will wear off. And the reality of it will sink in. And the interest will wane.

Thus, what we will see are cheap, poor quality, crappy textbooks on the iBookstore.

The better ones, which sell for the same price as the hardcopy versions will be on Amazon for the Kindle. Period.

You can make more money from Amazon than Apple. Thus case closed for authors and publishers.

As an author, Apple hasn't shown a compelling reason yet to sell on the iBook store compared to Amazon.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:54 AM   #27
skellener
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So...still no way to read iBooks material on a Mac huh?
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by jlc1978 View Post
I'm guessing this is just the first step towards a broader reach by Apple. I would not be surprised if Apple brought out an iBook Player fro other platforms at some point; with the books bought through iTunes. The challenge is ensuring the targeted devices have the horsepower to run the books and provide a good user experience. Macs and PC sure could; many tablets might not; especially cheaper ones.

iBooks Author reminds me of HyperCard - a great product that Apple killed and looks like resurrected the concept in a new form - like the Newton and the iPad.




If this catches on (and I hope it does); Apple and textbook publishers have a common interest in making the economics work for schools and will come up with a pricing model that makes it a very compelling option for schools.

Some examples of advantages for Apple /and/or publishers:
Apple gets a built in user base that has used iTunes from grade school on up - a lock-in that would make MS green with envy - although Apple will be the one with the green.
Publishers get a simpler distribution model that has the potential to virtually eliminate the need to print, ship and store physical books to match anticipated demand.
Publishers can tailor books to smaller audiences - multiple language versions, local boards, etc. - all on an electronic copy with no need to do special print runs.
Apple and publishers get a wealth of demographic information that advertisers would kill for - want free text books? Get ads. While that is not necessarily a path I favor; would I take ads in exchange for getting my graduate textbooks free? In a heartbeat. My undergrad texts were paid for by my scholarship; free is a very enticing model for college students. Advertisers could tailor ads to very specific demographic groups - something that could be very valuable and offset the costs of an iPad and books.

iU is a game changer as well; not because it is a new idea but because of the potential Apple has to reach a vast audience beyond those currently using things traditional CMS and eBlackboards.

Me? I'm working on my first book.
... The ENTIRE point is to lock you into the Mac/iOS ecosystem... they WILL NOT be bringing this to any other platform, infact we'll be lucky if they make one for Mac OS let alone Windows
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:57 AM   #29
trainwrecka
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Originally Posted by webspinner View Post
This is awesome! But it still doesn't change the price of high school text books. The books are bought by the students. So if the school plans on paying for them, it will have to buy a new set of books every semester for $14.99 per student. Typically high schools use books for 3 to 5 years and they cost about $100, but they can pass them from student to student. With this price point, the cost of the books for the schools will be $14.99 * 5 years * 1 to 2 semesters per student (depending on whether it is a 2 or 1 semester course). So really, it will cost schools $75 to $150 per 5 years, which is about what they pay now for a single text book.
If your theory holds up, at the very least the 5 year old textbook has up-to-date information if it were an iPad version.

Students purchasing a textbook at $15 is a lot better than what I paid for textbooks. Schools would also have a different buying plan I'm sure, since students don't get to keep the iPad.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:57 AM   #30
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Why is Apple pushing users on Lion so hard? The OS stinks and this new tool requires Lion. Why does Apple want everyone on Lion so badly? This is too bad.
I have had no issues with Lion. 10.7.1 was crappy but 10.7.2 rocks!
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:57 AM   #31
Lochias
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Originally Posted by OldAppleUser View Post
Why is Apple pushing users on Lion so hard? The OS stinks and this new tool requires Lion. Why does Apple want everyone on Lion so badly? This is too bad.
Or OSX in general.
Why did they have to change a perfectly good OS?
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:57 AM   #32
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I've seen other posts on the forums here saying this will kill the publishers. I disagree, here's why:

My wife paid $300 for a used text book for one of her medical courses. The cost brand new was $350 so she saved a little by buying it this way. She sold it back for $200, which the bookstore will probably re-sell it for up to $300 again. So lets say this book is sold 15 times total. The bookstore makes money but the publisher has still only made their initial profit.

So lets say they make this an ebook. They can sell it for a reduced price, say $200 per copy. They are not out any paper to make it. So now the students can buy it cheaper and keep it forever for reference, as more will keep it since it is cheaper. The company gets a percentage of each sell so now they are making $1,000's off customers where initially they would have only received there cut of that initial $350 new text book.

I think it is a win for the publishers and 'students'. At a cheaper price, students will be able to digitally keep these books forever for reference. Publishers won't have to print as much and will make more money. As robotic as everything has become now, it should not cost that many jobs, although it will a few and it will hurt some of the bookstores.

Overall, I see it is a great advancement in our education system and hope it gets adopted quickly.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:58 AM   #33
trainwrecka
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Originally Posted by skellener View Post
So...still no way to read iBooks material on a Mac huh?
Don't see that ever happening. The stuff you will be able to do on a iPad textbook won't translate to the Mac. Apple likes to keep it simple.

I do wish there was a way to read normal iBooks on the Mac though.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:59 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakic10 View Post
get ready to pay $80-$100 for any book that is really needed

mine are all $130-$150 and the ebooks cost $80-$100

not sure why this will change that
pretty sure they said $14.99 or less. but who knows what college texts will cost. i know if my kids high school used any books available in the iBookstore i'd buy it for them. we all have iPads and love them!!
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 11:59 AM   #35
TraceyS/FL
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If they put out the state versions of the textbooks I will be more than happy to buy them myself for my kids to use over the stupid web interface I have access to now (both are elementary age).

WHy am i thinking I won't be able to buy the state versions?! Regardless, I think the Algebra 1 book will find it's way to my oldest child's iPad, even if it doesn't match her virtual class exactly.

I can't wait to see where this ends up!!
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:00 PM   #36
Certinfy
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I prefer taking pictures of every page in my text book so then I have both a virtual and physical copy.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:00 PM   #37
LagunaSol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webspinner View Post
With this price point, the cost of the books for the schools will be $14.99 * 5 years * 1 to 2 semesters per student (depending on whether it is a 2 or 1 semester course). So really, it will cost schools $75 to $150 per 5 years, which is about what they pay now for a single text book.
No lost books.
No damaged books.
No outdated books.
No books with the answers (correct or incorrect) already filled in.
No books filled with boogers and obscene doodles from previous students.

Advantage: Apple.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:00 PM   #38
JonneyGee
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I'm really excited about adding textbooks to iBooks and even more pumped about the free iBook author. Like many of you, I'm disappointed that no hardware announcements were made. However, with the iPad 3 launch just around the corner, I suspect something will be done then. Perhaps a discounted iPad 2 will be made available to schools with volume discounts making them more affordable. A more unlikely but possible idea: a low-end iPad (no cameras, otherwise iPad 2 internal hardware) is released to compete with the Kindle Fire and is targeted toward school districts.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:02 PM   #39
trainwrecka
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Originally Posted by jameskatt View Post
This means the average textbook author makes $12,000 on sales. The problem is that to write the textbook, the author needs to work nearly 24-hours a day for at least 5 years. That is very little money for that much work.
24 hours a day for 5 years to produce one textbook and make $12K.

That sounds real believable.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:04 PM   #40
diamond.g
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Sigh, now I am annoyed that Crystal City wifi doesn't work 9 stories up... Why is iBooks so large? Stupid 20MB limit...

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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:04 PM   #41
Yamcha
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I wish I had an iPad when I was in school, I'd probably get better grades..
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:04 PM   #42
shiseiryu1
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Yes

It's about time somebody stepped up to take textbooks to another level! Very exciting.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:04 PM   #43
TallGuy1970
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Originally Posted by kas23 View Post
Yeah? What about iWikipedia. It's free.
You nailed it. Wikipedia is a public domain. Anyone can change the information. My daughter's school (a junior high) strictly prohibits using Wikipedia for research purposes. It says the information contained there is not reliable.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:07 PM   #44
nepalisherpa
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Originally Posted by Yamcha View Post
I wish I had an iPad when I was in school, I'd probably get better grades..
You would probably have worse grades 'cause you would be playing with your iPad and not studying at all!
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:09 PM   #45
Sakic10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt View Post
Textbooks are not overpriced.

Have you actually tried to write a textbook?
Do you know how much work it takes to write a textbook?
Do you know how much of your own money it takes to write a textbook?

Answer: a lot.

A single author usually has to work nearly 24 hours a day for 5 years to write a single textbook on a single topic of a subject.

Since the total sales of a textbook are usually less than 1500 copies, it is a huge investment to write a textbook.
oh thats funny how exactly is a new edition released every 2-3 years then?

I suppose they're writing brand new textbooks are they? Pretty sure they're just trying to get as much money out of students as they can so they don't but used ones.

But yeah, I'm sure writing 1 textbook takes a long time, revising and rereleasing it to screw students over though, does not.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:13 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt View Post
Textbooks are not overpriced.

Have you actually tried to write a textbook?
Do you know how much work it takes to write a textbook?
Do you know how much of your own money it takes to write a textbook?

Answer: a lot.

A single author usually has to work nearly 24 hours a day for 5 years to write a single textbook on a single topic of a subject.

Since the total sales of a textbook are usually less than 1500 copies, it is a huge investment to write a textbook.
I wonder what the cut is between the author and the publisher? I'll bet it's drastically in favor of the publisher, but I'm only guessing. What's nice is that Apple also released ibooks author, I took a look and it's pretty geared towards textbooks. I'm not sure how marketing is going to work, but I'll bet that textbook writers can upload their creations and possibly schools can directly decide which textbook they want for their class. This would take a huge cost off the author in terms of publication, hopefully leaving that much more profit for the author.

I'm also confused as to who pays what. Currently it looks as if the end user/student pays for the book, so does the school also pay for the book? If the student pays for the book, something you would think traditionally was paid by the parents taxes, I'd think they should be tax deductible?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by akm3 View Post
Is anyone else reading "and students get to keep their copy indefinitely" as "no more reselling used textbooks". In a High School setting where you give the textbooks back sure, in college you spend a ton and then get half or so back at the end of the semester.

I assume the new model for college you spend somewhere between 'higher than the resale value' and full price, and then can't recoup any costs. I have a hard time believing this will lead to savings for students.
Yes this will all hinge on what they price their college textbooks at, the only textbooks I see so far are high school ones. But even if the college textbooks are more than the resale price of paper ones personally I like it, as I like to keep books for reference and it would be pretty incredible to keep all my textbooks on my ipad. But the real break through isn't so much in the medium (although it is huge), it's in the price point.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:16 PM   #47
jlc1978
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Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
... The ENTIRE point is to lock you into the Mac/iOS ecosystem... they WILL NOT be bringing this to any other platform, infact we'll be lucky if they make one for Mac OS let alone Windows
There are a lot of ways to lock you into the eco-system. A reader for other platforms would do that quite nicely - you still need a mac to author, iTunes to buy; and Apple opens up a whole new revenue stream and pushes out competitors. If I ran apple, I'd open it up to the Mac and PC's but not tablets - a significant part of the market has one or both; so it's a natural ad. The tablet market is too fragmented to ensure a good experience, and Apple could use PC / Mac adoption to drive iPad sales; and even introduce an educational model of the iPad at an attractive price point.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:18 PM   #48
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Nothin new in iBooks 20

Apart from the enhanced ibooks format for education, which now support some more eye candy AND the chance to look at your annotations in full text, the only new in iBooks 2.0 seem to be the ability to use underline as annotations.

Still no library search, no way export your annotations, no OS X version.

I stick to kindle which can do most of what iBooks is missing. And with the announced new PC/Mac versions actually is platform global.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:18 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jameskatt View Post
This won't change much of anything.

The average textbook sells less than 1500 copies. This means the average textbook author makes $12,000 on sales. The problem is that to write the textbook, the author needs to work nearly 24-hours a day for at least 5 years. That is very little money for that much work.
Yes, so all of the 6th, 7th, and 8th editions, not to mention revised versions of each, I keep buying took 5 years to re-write and charge $194 bucks to college students trying to make it through? Totally ridiculous. One professor can write a textbook, mandate a 400 person plus class to buy and use, make 60% of the profit with 40% going to the publisher.

That is exactly why a college education cost three times the amount it did during the 1980's, yet professors teach the same classes. My parent's are professors so I do have a background in this.

Absolutely ridiculous!
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 12:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Sakic10 View Post
But yeah, I'm sure writing 1 textbook takes a long time, revising and rereleasing it to screw students over though, does not.
New cover graphic = new edition = new $100+ and a bookstore that won't sell the old used version, or different page numbering = new edition, etc. despite the fact the content is the same or that the teacher will allow it to be used instead.
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