Steve Jobs Met with Light Field Camera (Lytro) Company's CEO

I hope to god this won't become an 'apple exclusive' technology. I'm tired of hearing about all their lawsuits against everyone else.

Cool technology (and camera form factor). I can see it becoming very huge in the future if it's implemented properly.

However, maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but it does also kind of make me sad. For me, part of the appeal of photography is to be able to catch the right moment in time and using your tools (i.e. depth of field, aperture, etc) to emphasize and deemphasize certain aspects of your shot. By making it easier to adjust those things after the photo has been taken kind of takes away from the art of photography IMO.

But then again, most people take photos to upload on Facebook and not necessarily for art

danahn17 said:

Cool technology (and camera form factor). I can see it becoming very huge in the future if it's implemented properly.

However, maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but it does also kind of make me sad. For me, part of the appeal of photography is to be able to catch the right moment in time and using your tools (i.e. depth of field, aperture, etc) to emphasize and deemphasize certain aspects of your shot. By making it easier to adjust those things after the photo has been taken kind of takes away from the art of photography IMO.

But then again, most people take photos to upload on Facebook and not necessarily for art

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Don't worry... there is always room for storytelling.

Mr. Gates said:

I need this.

Not sure why but I do

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Cuz it's awesome?

splashman said:

The correct question is "How many people have enough focusing problems with their current camera to warrant purchasing an additional device?"

Yep, those for whom money is less important than their Dweebs of America cred.

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I feel like the point of this camera is that even if you can focus with a traditional camera, doing so takes time- time in which the scene you are trying to capture might be changing. With this camera you just have to make sure you have framed everything correctly and then you shoot and worry about focusing later.

I'm not saying that the camera is going to be a huge success, but the technology does have some practical benefits that apply even to a competent photographer.

I love the Lytro - what a truly amazing and unique invention.

As for the notion of it ending up in an iPhone. *roflmao* No. Chance.

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The people calling this niche or a gimmick are missing the bigger picture (if you'll excuse the unintentional pun).

Look forwards past mk1 and imagine you could point and shoot and TRULY capture a moment without thought for light levels, focus etc. This tech is going to create an entirely new market for Professionals/Artists to interpret/edit photos to useable form AFTER they've been taken so that fewer moments/memories are lost to the Dustbin. That moment the winning goal was scored?...or the moment the bouquet was thrown at your wedding?...or the exact moment that shark's teeth clamped down on that seal? Instead of those "once in a lifetime" moments being left to chance or requiring a skilled professional; all of this would move legitimately within the hands of an amateur to be navigated to some degree by the person viewing it "after the fact" or to be "corrected" in the future by a person with the correct skills into the perfect conventional image that matches the taker's intention...

I also almost immediately thought of combining this tech with the prospect of multiple-lensed cameras allowing for some degree of adjustable depth for 3D photography (rather than the approximated left-eye/right-eye illusion we have for 3D Photography now). Think the Photo-tech from 'Blade Runner' where Deckard was able to subtlety adjust the Photograph to change the focus on an 'already taken' image and even change angles to effectively see round corners!

We're talking about dynamic, adjustable Photography with potential beyond the singularly-focused, 2D convention of Photography that has existed for over a Century.

Allow your mind to take you beyond this version & you will begin to think of all sorts of possibilities!

Look past the camera and think about the software Apple could make to take advantage of this.

marcusj0015 said:

I'm still more interested in that other camera tech, the non-mosiac filter one.

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If you mean Foveon, Sigma bought them out years ago. It hasn't turned out anything interesting. I wish Sony had purchased it instead. They actually have a fair amount of experience producing digital camera sensors. This is another one of those misunderstood things. Everyone is interested in the sensor type just like with lcd displays where they're interested in the panel or panel technology. In both cases it only brings you halfway (at most) to a functional product. Many companies have implemented the same ccd and cmos chips with varying results. Had Canon, Sony, or Nikon implemented such technology, it might be in a better place today.

Tortri said:

I can see why apple is going to have a hard time with leaked info like this. yeah cool and all but not as cool when you leak this and give your competitors a possible advantage.

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They're different competitors, and I don't see a lot of potential for Apple in such a thing. Apple thrives on compact devices with good usability. The iphone and other smartphones have really driven down point and shoot sales, and the funding has really pushed the tiny cameras implemented in such devices forward. This technology is described poorly here. When you read about things such as "refocusing" that's generally not what is happening in the conventional sense. I'm not going into all of it. The diagram is a bit deceptive. I thought they were going with a ridiculously short focal length (real focal length, not dslr retrofocus type design which is basically a reverse telephoto) and doing distortion correction via software. The microlens array makes sense. It's been used by other companies to collimate the incoming light rays from the edges. This was a problem encountered when increasing the size of previous digital camera chips. Phase One uses something similar (they have for years). My guess would be that it has some kind of system for determining point distance much like with an auto focus system (assuming it focuses) so that it could emulate focusing adjustments in post of anything which was initially captured in sharp focus. Just saying it takes in all light doesn't make a lot of sense in optical terms. I think that's more just packaged marketing speak.

Confused of what advantage...

Sorry peeps.

I am not a professional photographer, however dabble a little.

This advert is pushing forward the advantage of having everyone in focus in the frame and not just the person in front.

But all cameras have this function do they not. A photo can be taken with a single point of focus with the backdrop blurred (Which is what most people do with a point and click) as part of start of advert, but SLR's and a probably most point and clicks can simply be adjusted to have everything in focus!.

I get the idea of new technology but the thing they are saying is a bonus in the advert, is nothing new.

splashman said:

Okay, let's have a show of hands: How many people here have taken photos where they wish they could re-focus at will to emphasize one element of the photo?

Wait, before you raise your hands, let's limit it to those people who take such photos often enough to pay extra for the capability. And lug around a bigger device.

And let's limit it to those who aren't professional photographers, since this $399 1.2MP model would be useless for such.

Okay, so now let's see all those raised hands.

Anyone?

Buehler?

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This is what this forum has really become.

Constant bitching about any new technology or implementation or experiment. It's like you people cannot appreciate any effort.

This technology is.... How do I say........ Whatever.

dethmaShine said:

This is what this forum has really become.

Constant bitching about any new technology or implementation or experiment. It's like you people cannot appreciate any effort.

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Either that, or they believe being dismissive and jaded about everything makes them look smarter than they actually are. What is this? Something new? Yawn. Pass. Whatever.

Or they have no imagination whatsoever. Which is even more tragic.

Pillbury said:

Sorry peeps.

I am not a professional photographer, however dabble a little.

This advert is pushing forward the advantage of having everyone in focus in the frame and not just the person in front.

But all cameras have this function do they not. A photo can be taken with a single point of focus with the backdrop blurred (Which is what most people do with a point and click) as part of start of advert, but SLR's and a probably most point and clicks can simply be adjusted to have everything in focus!.

I get the idea of new technology but the thing they are saying is a bonus in the advert, is nothing new.

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You missed what the ad is actually trying to describe (not that it does a great job describing it). It's not about having everything in focus in one shot. It's about being able to take a picture in an instant, without any consideration of how it is focused, and then choose how to focus the image as a post-processing step. The real benefit of this for the average person is that you can take a picture and only have to deal with the framing. This means that you don't spend any time trying to focus and have a better chance at actually capturing the moment you want to.

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No disrespect, but I may as well not buy this book as macrumors seem keen on revealing the entire contents, leaving nothing to read. Bit of an exaggeration I agree, but feels like it.

I guess it's only because of advances in technology that this is even possible in such a small camera, it seems to me you need a very fast processor to do all of this.
And if I am right one picture is more than 20 MB, if one needs to take multiple pictures in a row(1 second) you also need very fast memory.

Nice stuff but for now a bit pricy, the resolution is a bit low but if you only make small prints it shouldn't be a problem.

Edit : 1080 X 1080 is not a standard, why not made it standard so you could get 10X15 cm pictures from it?

this could be interesting

do they actually capture holographic 3d info???

according to the info they have on their website, they do, or they pretend to do

physics of this image capture is unclear though. To capture "vector" lighting they need 3d sensor.

I have an issue with people suggesting that Apple REINVENTED photography. Maybe it's semantics - but they didn't reinvent anything. They have a good camera on a phone. But they weren't the first. And there are millions of people using digital cameras not on phones and have been long before the iPhone. They didn't reinvent PHOTOGRAPHY. They evolved the digital experience on a phone.

As a real photographer using real cameras for real work, I think this camera sucks (obviously). Now, put it in my iPhone and THERE's a useful gadget!!

Pillbury said:

Sorry peeps.

I am not a professional photographer, however dabble a little.

This advert is pushing forward the advantage of having everyone in focus in the frame and not just the person in front.

But all cameras have this function do they not. A photo can be taken with a single point of focus with the backdrop blurred (Which is what most people do with a point and click) as part of start of advert, but SLR's and a probably most point and clicks can simply be adjusted to have everything in focus!.

I get the idea of new technology but the thing they are saying is a bonus in the advert, is nothing new.

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That's effectively what you get but, actually, a camera lens can only focus on one distance at a time. By setting a small lens aperture, you increase the depth of field which means that more of the image is 'acceptably' sharp. It is not all in focus.

As for this new camera, I've no idea how it works!

I'll get my anorak...

This is really interesting technology, am not surprised Apple were interested in it. It does prove a point that for all the talk of Apple's innovation, what they're really good at is integrating existing tech into their products and spinning it as if they invented it! 'Retina' display anyone?

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This camera also won the "Last Gadget Standing" competition at CES earlier this month. A huge room full of geeks and IT execs picked the Lytro camera as the winner out of 10 pretty cool products.

Pillbury said:

Sorry peeps.

I am not a professional photographer, however dabble a little.

This advert is pushing forward the advantage of having everyone in focus in the frame and not just the person in front.

But all cameras have this function do they not. A photo can be taken with a single point of focus with the backdrop blurred (Which is what most people do with a point and click) as part of start of advert, but SLR's and a probably most point and clicks can simply be adjusted to have everything in focus!.

I get the idea of new technology but the thing they are saying is a bonus in the advert, is nothing new.

Click to expand...

No, that's not how this works at all. Think of it this way...

There's a field of light that hits the lens of a traditional camera. The light bends and is focused to the camera sensor dependent on aperture, shutter speed, etc. Those settings determine things like depth of field. Now what if we could capture that entire light field before it hits and is manipulated by the lens itself? By doing that, then we are not bound to our original camera's aperture, shutter settings. We could just worry about framing a shot and just snap away, taking care of all that other stuff later.

Of course on today's cameras you can use selective focus and experiment with different levels of DOF. But once that image is captured by the sensor, then it's set in stone. You can't bring something that's out of focus back in focus in post. This new technology however, will allow you to do just that.

(disclaimer: my discription probably isn't the way this technology works at all, but was more for theoretical explanation purposes)

Everyone wants their images to be "in focus". Most won't be willing to pay $400 for a camera that does this.

They'd be better off spending the money getting a point and shoot with face detection (because, well people are the most photographed thing in the world) with a nice burst rate, and shooting off 5 or so shots of a scene.